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xotix

Pricing Model

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Hi,

 

So we are getting a buy once play forever system with a cosmetic shop and a few pay2win thing in it. Really, any mmo is better with just using a sub model, you can create more content. If it's p2p, then the campaings will be better, you can't create new campaings with the little budget you get with item shop and buy once. Just look at GW2.

 

I don't like cosmetic shops, it kills immersion and I don't think it really fits into player driven economy. Remember, you can get VIP access by providing INGAME services.

 

You want to build a big city? You want to be a lord and just rule that 10'000 people? You want to be mighty? Hah! But first please buy population/size from the item shop!

 

you are lazy? Just use the passive training (wtf is that?). You are even lazier? Just buy VIP and get 3 passive training slots!

 

I doubt this wil lwork, in my optinion, it's doomed. I just don't belife you can create a game with such dynamic content with that model. They fear they don't get the population on their servers thus they us that crappy buy once play forever thing, but this leads to the need of other incomes -> item shop. It's just cosmetic but it kills immersion and since they want to kill player driven economy at all they won't allow to buy ingame items but rather let you buy some ingame hogwash which also destroys immersion.

 

I think, that a sub model would create a more stable population and provide more quality. Really, just let me pay you 10ä a month and don't bother me with any anti-immersion stuff. . . It's just not RPGish.

 

It's not only that, I really belife the quality is just lower than it would be wit ha sub model.

 

You can buy ingame currency: Yes. This means that people who purchase the game, but don’t want to pay a monthly subscription, can still become VIP members by providing goods and services to other players

 

 

Hah, and I was told from a dev, that there won't be any p2w, but for me, that's already p2w.

 

I can't get over it, sry: But EVERYTHING should be player driven, every single element. If you let players buy models for their kingdom: NO! Make  a profession or somethign out of it and just charge 10$ a month or whatever. Just let people do some kind of science so increse what they can build, how large they can build their city etc and not just let them buy it.

 

Imagen: "Did you see that big city from xyz?" "Yea, massiv". "What do you think he has spend on that"... isnt that better_ "they must have spend a lot of effort into researching for getting such a big city running". Isn't it better?

 

Everything you see basically means nothing now, nothing. X has a big city -> he has spend money. Oh a nice hut -> probably from the item shop.

 

It kills immersion and thus it kills the fun.

Edited by xotix

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One of the most popular mmorpgs in history had training while you slept, in this case UO, so I can't say it's a bad thing, I certainly enjoyed having that in game.

 

As far as cosmetic items go if it's something like a pepsi hat then I agree the immersion is being ruined, I don't want want anything like that in game. If it's unique looking stuff that fits the game world and is not better looking than the things you can aquire in game legitimately, then i'll live with it

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You want to build a big city? You want to be a lord and just rule that 10'000 people? You want to be mighty? Hah! But first please buy population/size from the item shop!

 

So this seems to have everything to do with the EK. Since EK is kind of a "side activity", I don't see anything really wrong with this. The meat of the game is the pvp on the dying worlds, and none of this effects that.

 

 

you are lazy? Just use the passive training (wtf is that?). You are even lazier? Just buy VIP and get 3 passive training slots!
 
You ever macro your character while you're offline? Pretty much the same thing. I believe EVE has a similar system. The difference between VIP and regular is you an additional training spots (where as with the regular you only get 1). For people that don't care about alts, this won't be a big deal. People that do play alts, you'll need to purchase a vip ticket mostly. The devs need to entice purchases some how (without horribly skewering in-game balance).
 

 

I think, that a sub model would create a more stable population and provide more quality. Really, just let me pay you 10ä a month and don't bother me with any anti-immersion stuff. . . It's just not RPGish.
 
Who gives a custard about immersion. If I wanna look cool, and I gotta buy a costume from shop; so be it.
Edited by Helix

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They specifically said no pay-to-win. 

 

I much prefer a subscription model, but that doesn't seem to win general favor with players. I like what they've done here, as long as there for sure isn't anything in the shop or for VIP that gives any character a moment-to-moment advantage over another.

Edited by lethality

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Subscription games are failing hard and changing to f2p after they start losing players. It's better to make p2p game from the start. I really like their pricing model. It is very player friendly, good for casuals and hardcore players alike and not b2w. What else could you ask for? I just hope they will have enough income.

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One of the most popular mmorpgs in history had training while you slept, in this case UO, so I can't say it's a bad thing, I certainly enjoyed having that in game.

 

As far as cosmetic items go if it's something like a pepsi hat then I agree the immersion is being ruined, I don't want want anything like that in game. If it's unique looking stuff that fits the game world and is not better looking than the things you can aquire in game legitimately, then i'll live with it

 

Mortal Online and EVE both have passive training as well, it's not a groundbreaking, or game-breaking concept.

 

As long as the cosmetics aren't ridiculous, that's fine, For the SB folks, imagine if the "Transformation Rings", or  KIng's Helm or Pirate Hat were sold. They won't change the game. One thing though I would like to see is for those cosmetic items to be character bound. I would not like people spending RL monies on cosmetics to trade for in game currency or items. 

 

Oh, and the question of immersion.. how can you make an assumption on what will break immersion without knowing what is to be sold?


.

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One of the most popular mmorpgs in history had training while you slept, in this case UO, so I can't say it's a bad thing, I certainly enjoyed having that in game.

 

As far as cosmetic items go if it's something like a pepsi hat then I agree the immersion is being ruined, I don't want want anything like that in game. If it's unique looking stuff that fits the game world and is not better looking than the things you can aquire in game legitimately, then i'll live with it

 

If I'm offline, my character shouldn't do anything, I don't think my character should get better in anything by nothing. I don't care what game it did, I never experienced it and I don't want to.

 

You're an idiot.

 

/thread

 

Please don't be abusive, thanks.

 

Xotix,  I hate to say but obviously you didn't understand anything about what you read about the pricing of Crowfall.

 

Then explain it to me. For me, pay once and play forever means bad quality. Never saw a game that worked and if you look how much new content they want to provide I doubt that it will work. I don't want poorly generated campaigns and I don't think, anyone else wants.

 

Also, if I can prodive you an ingame service and you will get VIP status, I just can buy gold via that.

 

My head hurts after reading this thread. Do people actually read their posts before actually posting any more?

 

Sry, I was in a hurry. You're right, it's very poorly written.

 

-----

 

And yeah, I just think everything ingame should come from an ingame action etc. and not being bought in an item shop, for me, that just can kill the fun. I want to feel the game and just dive into it, I also don't like any transmorgh (or how you call it), I didn't even like the "change color of equipment" in GW2. I want the equipment to tell me information about the player, about his spec and about how strong he is, that's get mostly killed by an item shop.

 

I just don't belife in this pricing model for an mmo. I just like the sub model, then everything comes fro man ingame action and itsn't oursource to a shop.

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Mortal Online and EVE both have passive training as well, it's not a groundbreaking, or game-breaking concept.

 

As long as the cosmetics aren't ridiculous, that's fine, For the SB folks, imagine if the "Transformation Rings", or  KIng's Helm or Pirate Hat were sold. They won't change the game. One thing though I would like to see is for those cosmetic items to be character bound. I would not like people spending RL monies on cosmetics to trade for in game currency or items. 

 

Oh, and the question of immersion.. how can you make an assumption on what will break immersion without knowing what is to be sold?

 

That will happen, not through cosmetic items, they will be account/character bound (I assume) but they allow to you to get VIP by providing ingame services. That's basically the same.

 

Tell me what gets traing and why this needs to be in the game. For me, that means: I'm doing nothing but still getting better at xyz. o.O why the heck should I play then?

 

I don't like cosmetics for several reasons. As I stated above. I takes away a lot of information which you can use in low pop pvp, like 3v3 etc. At least, I'm used to that.

 

But anway, for me personally, that would break immersion to some sort of level. I could live wwith it, if everything else is okay, but I still don't think that they will be able to provide the quality I expect with that model. They will just lack the money.

 

Also, they are going to crowdfund this game, so they need to sell stuff. At some point, you just don't have enough stuff to sell and have to start selling "bad" things. Or you get pokemon like wow or a horde of pets, or an item shop like GW2 with actual ingame items.

Edited by xotix

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Subscription games are failing hard and changing to f2p after they start losing players. It's better to make p2p game from the start. I really like their pricing model. It is very player friendly, good for casuals and hardcore players alike and not b2w. What else could you ask for? I just hope they will have enough income.

 

This is one of the places I'm least worried. Say what you want about "kids games", but I'm absolutely certain that Coleman learned a great deal from the massive success of Wizard101.

 

Not only the pay models that work, but the patterns that are most successful. And beyond that, the patterns that have a negative impact on gameplay and drive away experienced players.

 

Obviously there are always potential pitfalls, but I feel pretty good when I look at the team leading this project and the experience they bring to the table.

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This is one of the places I'm least worried. Say what you want about "kids games", but I'm absolutely certain that Coleman learned a great deal from the massive success of Wizard101.

 

Not only the pay models that work, but the patterns that are most successful. And beyond that, the patterns that have a negative impact on gameplay and drive away experienced players.

 

Obviously there are always potential pitfalls, but I feel pretty good when I look at the team leading this project and the experience they bring to the table.

 

They obviously trying to get a middle way. Which is really understandable from their point of view. I'm of course talking here from my personal wish! Sure, I belife in the team. I think they are actually knowing better then I what they are doing. (Despite the fact, I'm arguing against them here)

 

I just hope, they don't sell any cosmetics you can actually wear and I hope that if you look at your enemy, you can tell a lot about his playstyle/spec etc.

 

If they sell items for your EK, fine, I still don't like it because you could make some bad bottom ingame features out of it, but yeah... 

 

So let me reduce my concern to this: Please don't make cosmetics wearable!

 

Oh and sry about the starting post.

 

Can anyone tell me more about that passive training? How it works in EVE and UO? I hope it's more like: bulding city faster (like, all ofline characters make the city built faster) rather than: It inceases you sword ability.

Edited by xotix

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They obviously trying to get a middle way. Which is really understandable from their point of view. I'm of course talking here from my personal wish! Sure, I belife in the team. I think they are actually knowing better then I what they are doing. (Despite the fact, I'm arguing against them here)

 

I just hope, they don't sell any cosmetics you can actually wear and I hope that if you look at your enemy, you can tell a lot about his playstyle/spec etc.

 

If they sell items for your EK, fine, I still don't like it because you could make some bad bottom ingame features out of it, but yeah... 

 

So let me reduce my concern to this: Please don't make cosmetics wearable!

 

Oh and sry about the starting post.

 

I feel like this point is invalid because it implies a stitching system of some sort, where you can basically skin your gear to get the look you want over the stats you want. If this is the case, you can do it with dropped/crafted gear also. So buying from the cash shop really doesn't offer you any advantage there.

 

If you don't want that kind of system, I don't agree but can understand why. However, cash shop cosmetic items are not the root of your problem there, at all.

 

Edit: I personally don't agree because I think when you run up on someone in noob gear, you should have to ask yourself whether this is an easy gank or a trap.

Edited by nick

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I'll just CP my post in the Official Thread:

 

Interesting Payment System. I am on the line though about it being Not Pay to Win and Pay to Win due to the ability to sell products/VP Services, etc. We'll see how it plays out though. Seeing how most of the game is full/partial loot, I am thinking that's the justification for most of it. Chances are, even if you do pay real money to sell items, to buy bigger weapons/armor, if you don't have the skills to keep it on you, well, you just lost out on some money...

 

But then, what if you do have the skills, and you just keep using the real money transaction to make yourself bigger and bigger in the game. Hard sell for sure. Very tricky. 

 

Player driven economy, I like. But inflated prices getting crazier and crazier as the game progresses... How will that affect new players after a few weeks, let alone months?

 

Biggest concern is inflation of prices for new players. If this game is going to be a "niche" game as it is, what's the incentive for new players to come in?

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^^^^ what freeze said.

 

Also, you need a currency that's only viable to VIP members in order to convert real money into virtual money.

A currency is something EVERYONE needs EVERYTIME. If they're selling cosmetics, I doubt whales will be able to convert their money that easily (plus, equip might be lootable in some cases). Archeage had APEX, labor potions and later on boxes with thunderstruck trees... players needed that all the time, so it was pseudo P2W.

 

TL;DR they just need not to sell anything worthy of being traded, like pure cosmetic items.


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Assuming the markets are isolated to a single dying world, I would think new players always have the option to jump into a campaign that has an import rule of nothing at all.

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I'll just CP my post in the Official Thread:

 

Biggest concern is inflation of prices for new players. If this game is going to be a "niche" game as it is, what's the incentive for new players to come in?

 

Don't get your point? I start a new wipe on SB, prices are low because you just start in the game. I can buy some cool piece of gear for say 10 gold. It's all it sells for at this point because it's a new server/game. But so did everyone else because it's launch. A month from now, that same item will be 100 gold. 1000% increase which = inflation, sure.

 

But new guy starts a month after everyone else. He's able to sell some resource at the current market rate unlike me who had to sell an item at a much lower price a month ago. Inflation is perspective. To me, it's inflation. To him, it's just the current market.

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