Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Wolfwynd

2 Weeks In.

Recommended Posts

So, I'd like to share my initial "14 days worth of having played the game" opinion, both as a game, and as a concept.

The various disclaimers apply - Yes, I know that the game state is heavily in development. Yes, I know many features aren't implemented. No, I'm not new to this.

And to clarify my experience: MMOs include the usuals (WOW, GW/2, W:AR, Warframe, Starwars etc etc) and also old titles... Shadowbane in particular. RTS/MOBA/FPS: all of the usuals here too.

I've been an early-access, alpha and beta tester on a few games, among them Firefall. I'm an IT guy who (Like most folks here, i'm assuming) has been a mid to hardcore gamer for twenty plus years. The rig I'm running this game on is more than a rust bucket (custom i7 8700k, 16Gb DDR4, 1060GPU) so the issues aren't based on poor running or lack of technical proficiency. 

Game Concept: Awesome, great.

I like the races, classes, skills, production ideas, combat... all of it. the changes made that I've looked at over the game several year development have made sense, and the look is particularly cool. Design style is a really solid evolution of past titles, and the renders are tight. There was been some thought go in to making a kingdom builder MMO with a significant economy based on PVE, and yet fostering a hardcore PVP playerbase in such a way that the two work in tandem instead of against each other. The lighting, terrain, mob designs, all really hit the right tones with me. I love the blue runetool light reflecting off stone, and grasses.

Execution at this time: Abysmal. Absolutely should not be charged for, even as a pre-alpha.

Please, let me clarify. No part of this game is ready even for soft launch. Skill trees time out randomly, and look basic AF. The older, darker style skill tree looks significantly better than the current iteration. The character animations are smooth, but super long, seemingly uninterruptibile, and their audio tracks are grating. The UI is another issue - windows that can't be over ridden (I want to press esc to clear and get straight back into the gameplay, not have to hammer the escape key 35 times just to get back to usable screen. How about being able to type while autorunning? That doesn't feel like it should be missing at this stage.  

Economy: In game economy and item production has the worst balance, just the worst. 25 Ethereal Dust to produce even basic/intermediate items? Even after training nearly exclusively harvesting skills that increase drop rates in the last fortnight, the ED drop rates are still so low that 3 hours of actually boring and repetitive grinding (Taking into account need to make new tools that last longer than 3 swings, which themselves require ED)  won't produce enough to make a whole set of armor. This leaves me feeling irritated that I just killed an entire nights gaming only to still be behind the eight ball.

EKs: Loving the concept, but again, hating the execution.

If i misplace a single item, it's a giant PITA to have to run over, loot it, open the menu, bring up the worldbuilder grid, raise, lower and replace the item. Times 12 for the pieces of the wall that i have to go and reset thanks to my useless grid (Which resets every time i go to load a new fence piece from the inventory) because it's failed to help me line up my walls to get a simple large rectangular fence around my lodge. How about a specific architecture "bag" that i can drag all of my architecture gear into and access from the worldbuilder menu so that i'm not killing hours of my night just jumping in and out of menus, huh? How about adding creatures to my EK? Even just for the look if not the harvest value? Nothing in the forums covers it.

Combat: What. The. Hell.

This is animation hell. Animations fail to match floating combat text. The skills make little sense in correlation to what is happening on screen and are considerably less than intuitive. I can see straight away the influences from other titles. But this is a poor emulation of those rather than an evolution. 

The PVP and PVE aspects of the game I like.

I like that I have a spirit bank to hide my valuables in, so that suddenly having the crap ganked out of me by someone with 1/8 of my ping (Yes, I'm in New Zealand, I'll never see lower than 180ms) only results in the loss of the few things in my inventory, rather than the 5 hours worth of runetools I spent all that time building aren't just ....gone.

Oh wait. Thats happened twice. Thanks, Obama. Spirit bank doesn't mean jack when my five runetools just got lifted by the fireball throwing git who jumped me.

Overall conclusion: I'm asking myself why I'm bothering. Why anyone would. I have liked some of the things I'm seeing, and I can see the potential here. But this is raw. Not raw like good sushi, raw like carpet burn on your ass raw. Raw like improperly cut puffer fish raw. I say this as I'm going to go in and impulsively check that my skills are still cycling, instead of dropping off for the 3rd time today.

If you want to view this as a whine, feel free. This is only my opinion as a longtime MMO player. Comments are still welcome, as is helpful wisdom from some of the people who have been here far longer than me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can tell a lot of thought and time went into this post, and honestly overall I think you're mostly on point. The game has an enormous amount of 'clunkyness' and lack of general polish, particularly in combat and the 5.5 skill trees. The amount of harvesting to get yourself geared is also pretty high.

I do not, however, think any of these things are even remotely final in their current state. I think that polish is not really on the radar yet, and what we are currently playing (5.5) should be seen as an initial test of a mostly intact game loop.

Keep in mind this is still pre-alpha.

 

(i do wanna add that the spirit bank isn't going to work like it does now in the final product. Outside of your EK (and maybe not even there) you will need to jump through some sort of hoop (be it a location you have to go to, something you have to interact with, etc) to export stuff to the spirit bank. In campaigns with inventory loss on death, dying means losing your stuff) 

Edited by Hi.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way to look at it is to take it with a grain of salt. It's not a finished product it's only being tested. My advice to you would be to either guild up or play another game for the time being. Maybe jump in to check out the updates then game on elsewhere for now. Alot of issues will be ironed out in due time. This will be a fantastic mmo I'm sure of it, but best not to set your standards too high right now with the economy and overall mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wolfwynd said:

Execution at this time: Abysmal. Absolutely should not be charged for, even as a pre-alpha.

I've never seen an MMO pre-alpha that was free and open to all. Can you give an example of one?


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firefall was. You had to get a key, but if you were lucky, you could beg on forums and get one.
Arguably not an MMO, but I feel that it was closer to MMO sandbox than FPS.

Edited by Wolfwynd
addition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the clunky part is the pre-alpha part. The combat is still in a state from when they wanted to locked combat.

I'd prefer skills not be spread out like they are and more independent but have requirements to train. A system closer to Eve instead of a talent tree style.


etDenA9.png
Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jetah said:

the clunky part is the pre-alpha part. The combat is still in a state from when they wanted to locked combat.

I'd prefer skills not be spread out like they are and more independent but have requirements to train. A system closer to Eve instead of a talent tree style.

I hope so Jetah, What concerns me is below.  I am back from over a year Hiatus and game was clunky previously too.  The constant having to switch between game modes to point and click feels clunky to me.  Game flow is bad and breaks immersion.  The UI and how it integrates with other windows needs some serious work.  If they can get the UI ironed out, I would be happy camper. 

12 hours ago, Wolfwynd said:

 The UI is another issue - windows that can't be over ridden (I want to press esc to clear and get straight back into the gameplay, not have to hammer the escape key 35 times just to get back to usable screen. How about being able to type while autorunning? That doesn't feel like it should be missing at this stage.  

 

The game is still pre alpha and I think once everyone starts on same level game will have a different flavor to it.  All good I hope.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎29‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 3:40 AM, Wolfwynd said:

25 Ethereal Dust to produce even basic/intermediate items? Even after training nearly exclusively harvesting skills that increase drop rates in the last fortnight, the ED drop rates are still so low that 3 hours of actually boring and repetitive grinding (Taking into account need to make new tools that last longer than 3 swings, which themselves require ED)  won't produce enough to make a whole set of armor. This leaves me feeling irritated that I just killed an entire nights gaming only to still be behind the eight ball.

This is what I actually like about the state of the game so far. I don't want another MMORPG where you get gear without doing anything for it. I want to invest time and be rewarded for it. I am looking for a game that actually rewards hardcore players for playing more than the average player.

Many MMORPGS have failed this aspect in the last years. Vanilla WoW was awesome in that aspect... To the point where having an epic mount was exclusive and being able to be in a descent raid guild or being in top ranks in PvP was awarded to less than 1% of the players. 

I really hope that crowfall will reward dedication and not throw good equipment to all Players regardless of the amount of time they spend gaming. This will only lead to a boring game for every player who actually can and wants to invest more time.

On ‎29‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 3:40 AM, Wolfwynd said:

I'm asking myself why I'm bothering. Why anyone would. I have liked some of the things I'm seeing, and I can see the potential here. But this is raw. Not raw like good sushi, raw like carpet burn on your ass raw. Raw like improperly cut puffer fish raw. I say this as I'm going to go in and impulsively check that my skills are still cycling, instead of dropping off for the 3rd time today.

I laughed when I read this... As already mentioned above by others: This is PRE-Alpha which means it's in the babystep phase.

I can tell you why I am bothering: Because so far this game makes me feel something that I haven't felt in any MMORPG since WoW BC: Anticipation and curiosity. That's because the concept is new and still the game is refreshingly old school in terms of needed dedication to get better at it. 

On ‎29‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 3:40 AM, Wolfwynd said:

If you want to view this as a whine, feel free.

This always sounds like "I am not racist, but..." 

Don't mention the word "whine" and your threads will less likely be entilted as a "whine". ;)  Just a little advice from me.

 

In the end it's your opinion and of course everybody should respect it. Still, when I read your post, I have the feeling that you would be better off we another MMORPG which is more casual (not negative).

 

Exlex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2018 at 10:47 PM, Jah said:

I've never seen an MMO pre-alpha that was free and open to all. Can you give an example of one?

almost every old school mmo alpha, beta pre-alpha whatever, was free. you didnt charge people to play your unfinished game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cloudfly said:

almost every old school mmo alpha, beta pre-alpha whatever, was free. you didnt charge people to play your unfinished game.

Having the right to Play a beta test or even alpha is something that was reserved to lucky people, critics or influencers. ACE isn't different beside the fact that they also give early acces to those who are supporting the game production financially. I think that's fair.

I mean I didn't pay to get early access, but because I am convinced that, once released, this game will be fun and that I will very likely play it a lot. :)

Edited by Exlex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cloudfly said:

almost every old school mmo alpha, beta pre-alpha whatever, was free. you didnt charge people to play your unfinished game.

Old school MMO pre-alphas weren’t open to the public. If Crowfall had an old-school pre-alpha we wouldn’t have access.

Calling something you can't get access to "free" is misleading.

Also, access to pre-alpha is included with purchase of the game right now. It could be considered "free."

Edited by Jah

IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the issue here is expectation. We are testing elements of the game that are slowing merging together to be something that is a beginning stage of the game. Before investing I spent a long time reading and watching videos on its development to understand what I am getting into. Not to discredit your opinions as you are allow them but the moment the small tangent went on about being ganked... this was not productive to the case you were making. A lot of the elements are in a state of basic functionality. A point to make them usable but far from a final standing of fine tuned. Frustrating? Hell yea! I can agree parts of the game Irk the crap out of me but if you come into the game to play understanding this it can be a bit easier to digest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I got out of this and I agree with is, the game is not as polished as it should be, pre-alpha or not, with the amount of time put into this game thus far it really should be more polished.

 

Thats the short and sweet, no need for details, it simply should be further along. It's like the Dev's have A.D. .... oh look a shiny rock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Apok said:

What I got out of this and I agree with is, the game is not as polished as it should be, pre-alpha or not, with the amount of time put into this game thus far it really should be more polished.

 

Thats the short and sweet, no need for details, it simply should be further along. It's like the Dev's have A.D. .... oh look a shiny rock.

The shine comes last in most cases, not first. Rarely do you ever get anything right on the first attempt when it comes to development. Development is iteration.

To say "game should be further along" is silly, since we really don't have anything to base on that on. Who knows how long games like ESO, WS, WoW, etc were in a pre-alpha state of development. Years maybe, till we actually saw anything of them. In comparison, camelot unchained has been in development for roughly 5-6 years. Games take a long ass time, and we're actually getting to see the sausage made, something that would be unheard of 20 years ago. We use to only get to see the "shine" of a product, not the rough cut.

Edited by Helix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Helix said:

The shine comes last in most cases, not first. Rarely do you ever get anything right on the first attempt when it comes to development. Development is iteration.

To say "game should be further along" is silly, since we really don't have anything to base on that on. Who knows how long games like ESO, WS, WoW, etc were in a pre-alpha state of development. Years maybe, till we actually saw anything of them. In comparison, camelot unchained has been in development for roughly 5-6 years. Games take a long ass time, and we're actually getting to see the sausage made, something that would be unheard of 20 years ago. We use to only get to see the "shine" of a product, not the rough cut.

I'm aware of when the shine comes in, that shine should have started showing up by now. CU has been in Development 5-6 years but also built their own engine. You can disagree all you like, imo they should be further along, it shouldn't be as clunky as it is, and the UI ... lets not even go there, OP was spot on with the UI. 

 

It's not meant to be a debate, it's an opinion that I feel is accurate, you are entitled to view it however you like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite the thoughtfulness of the OP, I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to pay for early access to a game's Pre-Alpha and questions whether it is worth it. The idea they should be further along in development is absurd - having experience with other MMOs or pre-release testing has no bearing whatsoever on the development of a specific title and it's specific issues. For example - and there are many such examples - in Crowfall's case, the devs made the brave and positive decision to split race and class, abandoning the Archetype concept. This set back development, but I am grateful for this decision as the end product will be better for it. My opinion on how far along development should be is about as unimportant and useless as my opinion on how far the sun is from the earth.

I hesitate to continue as I do find some of the OP's points to be valid and do not wish to unleash my usual disdain and scorn, but some of the other things said are making that restrain very difficult. On a daily basis I am astounded at the statements made by some of the people who have backed Crowfall...

In any case, do I WISH CF's development was further along, of course. I do not think they SHOULD be however. I also took part in the Firefall Beta. Where is that game now? CF will be done when it is done, and thank the gods for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wish they could retain alot of the new players that are coming to the pre alpha servers. I personally like the game with the few weeks that I have been playing consistently but I have noticed alot of the new names I have been seeing don't stick around. It seems like most of the daily players are the regulars.

 Maybe they could do a couple of simple things that would help that wouldn't require much work on ACE's end-

  *Give 1-2 weeks of training to new players. Let them use that time the way they want so they don't feel like they need to sign off and come back in a week or two just to do basic crafting, harvesting or combat.

* Guild tags.  I'm not even in a guild but I think the minute they add tags, it would attract more guilds into the servers. These guilds could recruit and assist new players. There are alot of helpful people on the servers now but I think there would be more if they knew they would be helping someone in their guild. This may also entice more guilds to jump on now and PvP now if they knew they were getting some early exposure.

 I have played pre alphas in the past and some of the ones that I didn't play more than a day I never returned to when it was released. Hopefully all these new players that only try the game now for a couple of hours don't write the game off.

Edited by Hunt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Full Disclosure: I haven't played the game yet because I've been sitting here waiting patiently for the game to at least get into a beta state before mucking around with it.

Just because it's in Pre-Alpha, as forum posters like to tout, doesn't mean that you use that as a shield to deflect any and all criticism. In fact, there's no better time for such feedback than right now because the game's still in a somewhat malleable state. If you wait until beta, which is generally the feature-complete polishing stage, it's generally going to be too late for any sweeping system changes.

The takeaways from the OP's post are the following (in short form):

  • EK Placement tools are clunky
  • Menus are too hard to get out of when you're several menus deep
  • Animations don't sync up properly to what is supposedly going on (? Not sure I got the gist of this one completely)
  • Drop-rates need to be tweaked to make armor crafting less of a chore
  • Losing valuables that took forever to craft sucks (probably exacerbated by the above drop-rate issue)

I definitely don't think any of these complaints are unreasonable and most of them can probably be addressed before release. EK building probably isn't a priority at the moment, so that's understandable as to why it feels rough. UI is generally the last thing that gets a coat of polish before release, so that's also understandable. Last I heard, they're still testing the whole effort-reward balance for crafting with each update, so I imagine that's in the process of being addressed already. Not sure what they can do about the animation issue though, as I, obviously, can't speak to it myself, but maybe that was either a conscious design decision or timings just aren't synced correctly yet?

I think the bigger concern would be that if OP's impression of the game is so negative at the moment, just how much are they going to be able to do in 8 months to turn that around? At the rate they're going, you would hope that they would get into Alpha within the next two months maximum to meet that deadline with any manner of certainty and that leaves little time to address all of the nagging issues like these even for a fairly large development shop, let alone a smaller one. Honestly, I'd prefer they postpone it another 6 months to a year if they feel that they need the time, rather than rush it out just to meet their promise because I want the game to be great.

Either way, they can't fix what they don't know is causing user adoption issues, so posts like these are only really helpful, even if they repeat issues that have already been reported. If they decide not to fix these issues, that's fine too (maybe not to the OP, however), but it serves no one to just brush them off.

I want this game to be a success because I got tired of GW2 ignoring their RvR players and both of the guilds that I used to run with regularly are orphaned at the moment because that game mode was the only one that we really cared about. This really looks to be the "last hurrah" for RvR from our perspectives (no one is really interested in Camelot) and there's definitely a market for it since GW2's RvR is collapsing and ESO's is rather stale, I just hope Crowfall lives up to its lofty ambitions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...