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The Importance of Class Fantasy


GoldRaven12
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I have only recently come into playing Crowfall, and so far, I am very excited about where the game will be going in the future. It shows a lot of promise, despite it's rough state right now. One thing that struck me early on was the Champion class. Many of the other classes in the game have a clear "fantasy"- that is to say, they represent a clear archetype of games similar to Crowfall, and help immerse the player in their role, both on and off the battlefield: the Knight is a Warrior; the Confessor is a mage with an inquisitorial spin; the Assassin is a clear rogue; etc. But the Champion is the one class that doesn't seem to share this value. It's brothers, the Myrmidon and Knight, have a defined Fantasy, and a clear role. It is clear to see that the Knight and Myrmidon are clear sides of a different coin- one is a noble warrior, the other is a ravenous, ignoble berserker type. But the Champion exists in a weird space between these two archetypes, left in a limbo of abilities that leave the player feeling uncomfortable and unclear on what exactly they are supposed to be portraying or roleplaying. The Crowfall website seems to be unclear on the Champion's role as well, touting it both as a gladiatorial destroyer, and a noble warleader.

So my main concern is this: What exactly is the fantasy of the Champion? What defines it as a class? Is it truly meant to exist in the limbo between "warrior" types, or is it meant to define itself as something whole-cloth different, as I believe it should?

If the Champion truly is a lost class, caught between a Fantasy limbo, unable to properly define itself, how can we fix the class so that, going forward, the class is not only better define, but unique in both roleplay and combat function? I think these are essential for the class' existence and well being going forward with Crowfall's development.

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19 minutes ago, GoldRaven12 said:

I have only recently come into playing Crowfall, and so far, I am very excited about where the game will be going in the future. It shows a lot of promise, despite it's rough state right now. One thing that struck me early on was the Champion class. Many of the other classes in the game have a clear "fantasy"- that is to say, they represent a clear archetype of games similar to Crowfall, and help immerse the player in their role, both on and off the battlefield: the Knight is a Warrior; the Confessor is a mage with an inquisitorial spin; the Assassin is a clear rogue; etc. But the Champion is the one class that doesn't seem to share this value. It's brothers, the Myrmidon and Knight, have a defined Fantasy, and a clear role. It is clear to see that the Knight and Myrmidon are clear sides of a different coin- one is a noble warrior, the other is a ravenous, ignoble berserker type. But the Champion exists in a weird space between these two archetypes, left in a limbo of abilities that leave the player feeling uncomfortable and unclear on what exactly they are supposed to be portraying or roleplaying. The Crowfall website seems to be unclear on the Champion's role as well, touting it both as a gladiatorial destroyer, and a noble warleader.

So my main concern is this: What exactly is the fantasy of the Champion? What defines it as a class? Is it truly meant to exist in the limbo between "warrior" types, or is it meant to define itself as something whole-cloth different, as I believe it should?

If the Champion truly is a lost class, caught between a Fantasy limbo, unable to properly define itself, how can we fix the class so that, going forward, the class is not only better define, but unique in both roleplay and combat function? I think these are essential for the class' existence and well being going forward with Crowfall's development.

Honestly the central fantasy of the champion seems to be the "battlefield hero" archetype. The "don't persue Lu Bu" archetype or "pray their general does not find you" archetype.

In terms of separating them mechanically from the myrmidon I think it'd be much more appropriate for the champion to skew more toward being really amazing at fighting single combatants with single target abilities and sustain that scales well against single targets that make them best used in small comps or as pointmen, and they myrmidon to skew more toward "the ravenous bersker that just keeps fighting against all odds" and scales and damages more efficiently when fighting multiple opponents. Champions should be all about knocking out opponents one at a time, and be the guy you really don't want to have focused on you, and a guy you really want to gang up on to take down. Myrmidons should be all about fighting everyone all at once and be a guy your really want to stop ganging up on and pick off individually.

Stuff like replacing champion's whirlwind, making their sustain reactive to number of attacks taken versus damage taken, and other such things might help split the core roles/fantasy of both. Templars and Knights are clear "tank" archetypes with a similar split of specializing in single target versus multitarget utility, and Champion/Myrmidon could take some cues there as the "heavy brawler" version of group/single target sides of a similar coin.

Edited by PopeUrban

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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In the CF lore, Champion is similar to the "pit fighter" or "gladiator" fantasy archetype - competitive 1v1 combat specialists who fight for gold or glory:

https://crowfall.com/en/classes/champion/

 

Example from fantasy literature:

"In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, there are several fighting pits in Slaver's Bay. Hizdahr says that the combats are profoundly religious in nature, a blood sacrifice to the gods of Old Ghis, and thus deeply rooted in the traditions of Slaver's Bay and the Ghiscari religion. In theory, they are not mere butchery but a display of courage, skill, and strength for the gods. Though of course, the fighting pits also bring in a large amount of coin from spectators, and those who gamble on the gladiatorial fights. As a result the games are quite popular with both the rich and poor, and many gladiators willingly participate in the games because it is their chance to achieve wealth and glory."

Edited by miraluna

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1 hour ago, miraluna said:

In the CF lore, Champion is similar to the "pit fighter" or "gladiator" fantasy archetype - competitive 1v1 combat specialists who fight for gold or glory:

https://crowfall.com/en/classes/champion/

 

^This. Champion doesn't need any combat changes to fit his lore. He is already very 1v1 focused.  He only has access to two AoEs and both do underwhelming damage and are limited by long periods of downtime. All of his other skills focuses solely on killing one target at a time. His mitigation mechanic(ultimate warrior) means you can't simply beat a Champion through slow attrition like you can a Knight, for example.  You either understand how to counter him or you'll undoubtedly lose in a 1v1 scenario.  "all great Champions share one common trait: they shine in their ability to face others in one-on-one combat and emerge victorious."

I'd much prefer interesting Hero/Villain characters that represent them. Flesh out the class lore through other means besides butchering/restricting gameplay(which is all class fantasy serves to accomplish). This is why WoW lore triumphs the average MMO even if you've never played the rts. You can see and interact with the big boss versions of your class so you gain a much deeper connection. You'd rarely meet a Death Knight main that didn't think Arthas and Frostmourne was cool, for example. Or, a Paladin that didn't like Tirion(or one of the other big name Paladins) and the Ashbringer.  

All classes in roleplay stem from Warrior, Mage, Rogue or a combination of two. I don't see Champion being "just another warrior" as a bad thing. Gameplay wise he already resembles his lore.

Edited by AceSiN
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