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Devonic

Crafted Vassals

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Crafted vessels must be taken to a crypt where they are consumed to create a new level 1 character with the crafted stats added to the usual base stat buffs from class/race. Currently that character is linked to the server on which is was created and as such vessels used in campaign worlds are "one shot" items that can not be functionally re-used in future campaigns.

The stated plans for the final system as of now are that your characters will transfer from campaign to campaign, but will only be able to be swapped to at the crypt if that campaign allows that type of vessel to be used. It is likely they are currently locked to server due to some missing tech that they need to write to support charater transfers between servers. ACE wants to see if the limited character slots and need to upgrade vessels will perform adequately enough as a decay system, and if they judge that they aren't decaying out of the economy fast enough they will add some additional decay mechanisms. As of now they are unclear on how that decay, if implemented, would work.

Edited by PopeUrban

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A decay on Vassals would make it complicated, especially if common vassals you get for free don't decay.  Especially if you are levelling the vassal up.  Or are all vassals we create only temporary, might make you think, before you sacrifice items for xp.

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Vessels are a great concept. I like what they add. But.... given the "difficulty" of obtaining halite and cinnabar in any appreciable amount, if decay is applied to vessels, it may not be worth the endeavor.


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25 minutes ago, Armegeddon said:

Vessels are a great concept. I like what they add. But.... given the "difficulty" of obtaining halite and cinnabar in any appreciable amount, if decay is applied to vessels, it may not be worth the endeavor.

agreed

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But if vessels don't decay necromancers and grave diggers will be out of bussiness once most of the players have their vessels. The difficulty to obtain anything can be modified and the amount of materials required too; but without destruction there is not enough work for crafters and harvesters.

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59 minutes ago, Extintor said:

But if vessels don't decay necromancers and grave diggers will be out of bussiness once most of the players have their vessels. The difficulty to obtain anything can be modified and the amount of materials required too; but without destruction there is not enough work for crafters and harvesters.

I don't think that will be the case. It's not like each player is only going to need one vessel and they are done. Everyone has at least 6 character slots, so there's the potential for at least 6 vessels per person. On top of that, how many times will players upgrade a vessel, replacing their current character with a one that has better stats? If we assume that players will get a new vessel for each quality level (green, blue, purple, yellow), that's a total of 24 vessels per player, and no doubt there will be people who will have more character slots or upgrade more often (as well as those who use less character slots and upgrade less often).

On top of all that, there are going to be new player coming into the game on a regular basis, so there should always be a demand for vessels. If there is going to be an issue, it won't be for a while down the road. If so, I'm sure they will come up with something to increase the demand for necromancy. Pets are supposed to be a thing, though we are supposed to tame them. Maybe necromancers will also be able to build pets in the future.

Edited by Arkade

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52 minutes ago, Extintor said:

But if vessels don't decay necromancers and grave diggers will be out of bussiness once most of the players have their vessels. The difficulty to obtain anything can be modified and the amount of materials required too; but without destruction there is not enough work for crafters and harvesters.

Thats rubbish, it would take ages to get green vessels then blue and so on. Its hard enough to get the resources with the very few amount of players playing and its hard enough to make vessels for those very few players playing. At launch there should be many more thousands of players. It will take a very long time for all those thousands to get epic vessels.

if vessels decay then it will be pointless being a nercromancer as demend will be alot less especially with the currant decay system, players would just stick to the basic vessels that don't decay. Im planning to pick up the necromancer craft but if they decay i would pick somethong else as it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.

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7 minutes ago, Arkade said:

I don't think that will be the case. It's not like each player is only going to need one vessel and they are done.

You can say the same about armors and weapons and these are not limited to 6 each player so decay wouldn't be necessary either for these ones in your opinion, I guess. :)

Edited by Extintor

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16 minutes ago, Fefner said:

Thats rubbish, it would take ages to get green vessels then blue and so on. Its hard enough to get the resources with the very few amount of players playing and its hard enough to make vessels for those very few players playing. At launch there should be many more thousands of players. It will take a very long time for all those thousands to get epic vessels.

if vessels decay then it will be pointless being a nercromancer as demend will be alot less especially with the currant decay system, players would just stick to the basic vessels that don't decay. Im planning to pick up the necromancer craft but if they decay i would pick somethong else as it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.

Pretty much this. You will need a guild just to get a vessel basically. Think about it. I have three accounts. My crafting account could probably use at minimum four different vessels alone. 

You will need, to be optimal, 4-6 people (dedicated to excavation/Quarrying) turning over Lodes with Quarryman, and Finer Things or Foreman. Think about when CF goes live.. and you have to find, capture and equip the runes . You will then need a protector group for PvP or just to keep the spiders at bay if they stick to keeping high end Lodes in Adventure Zones. You won't be able to have low pop servers to farm in peace. At the frequency these minerals drop, NO ONE will be selling them.. for quite some time. 

Obtaining a vessel will be tedious in the least, unobtainable to some at worst. I know this is a guild driven game, but the way it is now, it's gated too deep. I don't think "Necromancers Going out of Business" will be the issue, unless they are out of business due to access to minerals/additives being choked off.

Add to that the pace of skill training, and you may be lucky enough to even see vessels by the second campaign. I think they should have a chance for mineral drops on the smaller nodes. With an increased rate for Motherlodes. 

Just my 0.02


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I'm just saying that for a healthy economy sources and sinks need to be balanced. If you only have sources and no sinks the market won't work properly.

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OP, you'll have to recruit vassals by starting a guild or take over leadership in a guild.

Once you have vassals, they can "craft" their crows by training skills, picking vessels (which can be crafted and leveled), and equipping gear (can also be crafted).

 

It's sad that halite (rock salt) is difficult to obtain.

Halite should be more common, and required in some cooking recipes, frost magic resistance, and witches' "nature magic" resistance.

Edited by chancellor
added Halite usage suggestions.

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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3 hours ago, chancellor said:

OP, you'll have to recruit vassals by starting a guild or take over leadership in a guild.

Once you have vassals, they can "craft" their crows by training skills, picking vessels (which can be crafted and leveled), and equipping gear (can also be crafted).

 

It's sad that halite (rock salt) is difficult to obtain.

Halite should be more common, and required in some cooking recipes, frost magic resistance, and witches' "nature magic" resistance.

The quality and quantity of halite is not set in the game, it changes with the availability of Granite Motherlodes on a given map, ONE persons training/gear in excavation, and the motivation of your group/guild.   

Edited by Frykka

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9 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Vessels are a great concept. I like what they add. But.... given the "difficulty" of obtaining halite and cinnabar in any appreciable amount, if decay is applied to vessels, it may not be worth the endeavor.

They are leaning away from decay on vessels. I think it's actually 99.99% certain that's not going to happen now.

If you watched today's Q&A, they are even making vessels cross campaigns, so it would be really odd for a vessel in one campaign to die/decay out, while another in a different world did not.

Just imagine the code complications and corner cases of trying to kill and deal with all the gear on an inactive vessel in a world that is offline, because the "same" vessel dropped dead in a campaign.

Oh, and can we lose the southern drawl vAssels spelling?  It's vessels, as in a hollow container, not vassal, as in a holder of land. :P

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Just imagine the code complications and corner cases of trying to kill and deal with all the gear on an inactive vessel in a world that is offline, because the "same" vessel dropped dead in a campaign.

I would be surprised if it was possible to have two copies of the same vessel on two different worlds. I would guess you need to return a vessel to the crypt before you could use it in a different world.


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3 minutes ago, Jah said:

I would be surprised if it was possible to have two copies of the same vessel on two different worlds. I would guess you need to return a vessel to the crypt before you could use it in a different world.

You could be correct.  I could see that limitation being a thing.  That's a pretty effective limiter on participation in multiple campaigns.

I also know they talked about locking certain vessels out of specific campaigns, like campaigns where only elf vessels are allowed, or only vessels below level 10, or by quality.

But I stand by the position that I am still 99% sure vessels won't decay like everything else does.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I can see two basic designs for vessel decay if they keep the existing mechanics AND use the planned route of being able to use your vessels on any world.

Option 1: Thrall/Hireling vessels

Rather than slotting thralls directly as guards, crafting station helpers, etc. require the thrall to be added in an option slot in vessel final combine to create a "thrall vessel" and just use the same mechanics to decay thralls to decay vessels. Necromancers may sell less player vessels over time, but will stay in plenty of business selling vessels for thralls to inhabit.

Option 2: Campaign based decay.

Rather than decaying on death, simply decay the vessel for each world it is summoned in to (with EK's being immune to this) as a sort of natural process for crossing the cosmic distance. You can use a vessel for an entire campaign for exactly one durability hit regardless of how many times it dies or how much it is used.

This would encourage people to still use vessels, but would create a natural incentive to campaign hop less, and would decay the vessels at a VERY slow rate to match the more complex and RNG sensitive process (because they can't be mass produced when rolled well) required to create them.

Additional options for keeping necromancers in business exist as well without vessel decay, were necromancers given some other important craft in addition to vessels.

Edited by PopeUrban

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2 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

I can see two basic designs for vessel decay if they keep the existing mechanics AND use the planned route of being able to use your vessels on any world.

Option 1: Thrall/Hireling vessels

Rather than slotting thralls directly as guards, crafting station helpers, etc. require the thrall to be added in an option slot in vessel final combine to create a "thrall vessel" and just use the same mechanics to decay thralls to decay vessels. Necromancers may sell less player vessels over time, but will stay in plenty of business selling vessels for thralls to inhabit.

Option 2: Campaign based decay.

Rather than decaying on death, simply decay the vessel for each world it is summoned in to (with EK's being immune to this) as a sort of natural process for crossing the cosmic distance. You can use a vessel for an entire campaign for exactly one durability hit regardless of how many times it dies or how much it is used.

This would encourage people to still use vessels, but would create a natural incentive to campaign hop less, and would decay the vessels at a VERY slow rate to match the more complex and RNG sensitive process (because they can't be mass produced when rolled well) required to create them.

Additional options for keeping necromancers in business exist as well without vessel decay, were necromancers given some other important craft in addition to vessels.

I don't see necromancers having too much trouble finding people interested in their vessels, even if permanent, provided no mechanism exists to remove levels from one, and perhaps even lock disciplines from being  removed from crafted vessels. 

There is an entire class of player that likes to mess with and experiment with builds constantly.  Trying to find that perfect combination for the current meta game.  Those players may keep one or two entirely unchanged, but have 4 vessel slots they are constantly swapping/changing/upgrading. 

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

I don't see necromancers having too much trouble finding people interested in their vessels, even if permanent, provided no mechanism exists to remove levels from one, and perhaps even lock disciplines from being  removed from crafted vessels. 

There is an entire class of player that likes to mess with and experiment with builds constantly.  Trying to find that perfect combination for the current meta game.  Those players may keep one or two entirely unchanged, but have 4 vessel slots they are constantly swapping/changing/upgrading. 

TBH it is entirely possible that this will be enough functional decay for vessels. In the event it turns out it isn't though, you know, its nice to have options. Excited to see how this all pans out either way.


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