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ACE_JackalBark

Co-Op City Building - Official Discussion Thread

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24 minutes ago, Frykka said:

It could be tied to the vessel hunger status in the EK...   people could keep an EK up 24/7/365 with a vessel present even in starvation status...   I would think maybe a starving players EK should shut down after a set length timer...  we are talking no power movement losses to the chicken tick but rather the minimum ticker consumption rate plus the final timer meaning a topped off player (with chicken consumption training) AFK in an EK will keep it up for 4-6 hours or something before need to be fed again.

It's pretty trivial to set up something that keeps a vessel fed and moves it around every once in a while. People would easily do this.

More importantly, there's no reason not to just let people freely spin up a public EK on demand so that none of that is necessary and less server resources are needed overall anyway.


Guild Leader of Seeds of War

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3 hours ago, emmgee said:

Do defensive buildings take up both types of tokens? Like can a Tower, for example, take a M defense slot AND a M building slot (since its a building and not something like a gate)

It sounds to me like only buildings will use building slots. So, manors, villas, keeps, etc. Walls and gates and such are all defensive structures. If they were to use building slots, it wouldn't make much sense. Either they would have to allow a ton of building slots, or they would only allow a very limited number of walls.

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3 hours ago, emmgee said:

If I'm a vassal and I have a vendor set up in someone else's EK, and I get kicked, what happens to that vendor and its inventory? Does the upkeep/billing still cycle?

I know that you can't remove a vendor from a stall while the vendor still has inventory, but I don't know if that's the case when a player gets kicked. Assuming it's working correctly, everything should go into your spirit bank. Whether the vendor's inventory will be placed into the bank separately, or it will still be located on the vendor itself, I don't know.

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3 hours ago, Durenthal said:

Will the tech involved in this help out CWs in any way?  Will it affect city building in shadows and dregs campaigns, for example?

 

They said that in the update. 

"THE TL;DR
This is a significant step forward in the development of Crowfall as it marks the first time we’re opening up the ability for players to collaborate to build cities, castles and markets. The underpinnings of this system will also allow us to support the more dynamic Campaign types (i.e. worlds like the Dregs that allow for free placement of buildings and defenses in strongholds)."

 

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3 hours ago, Durenthal said:

I'm saying they aren't valuable to ACE.  They are a money sink.

Actually, that is completely accurate... They are a money sink. :P

$15 to $150 for an EK parcel.

$65 to $180 for an EK building.

Etc ;)

Whales who do not wish to go swimming in the dregs will pay good money for their EKs. 

Assuming they only stay open when empty for a reasonable amount of time, the server cost won't be bad especially when the game is better optimized. 

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4 hours ago, Durenthal said:

I'm saying they aren't valuable to ACE.  They are a money sink.

False. EKs are Crowfall's answer to "What is the reward for winning campaigns?"

Its all well and good to theorize you'd want to win campaigns just to win, or for a number on a stat sheet, but that kind of long term payoff is an anathema to how MMO players actually value rewards. People who play an MMO (and especially an MMO where looting other players is a core part of the reward system) generally do so because the accrual of tangible ingame rewards is appealing to them. People play a game with loot in it because they want to acquire loot.

EKs are where people keep the loot, and more importantly, where players can show off that loot.

Not only that, but the EK systems are built specifically to use the same mechanisms as campaign worlds, only with a player admin toggle. The work that goes in to EKs is directly transferable to campaigns in every case. Buildings, parcels, and trade mechanisms in the EKs are also directly trasferable to add value to campaigns. Hell, the EK's parcel design systems make it easy for ACE to implement a campaign where players adding parcels to the map can be a campaign feature with very little additional engineering work if they want to. That's not on the planned features list but the underlying systems let them PUT it there without literally rewriting half the game or building an entirely new interface or crafting system as any other game would need to.

They allow players to acquire and show off wealth no matter which campaigns they like to play, and in the case of import campaigns lay the groundwork for a very important part of the game (trading and building items for import to "hit the ground running") without also breaking the balance of the campaign design.

AND they've opted to make them totally optional so the relatively small number of players who claim they're "here for the challenge" and "don't care about loot" (in a game built entirely on the premise that loot is power and required to win any form of pvp contest) can completely ignore them and not gimp themselves by doing so.

They're not a money sink at all. They're an important part of the reward loop for a game in which the servers are temporary because they're permanent.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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25 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Not only that, but the EK systems are built specifically to use the same mechanisms as campaign worlds, only with a player admin toggle. The work that goes in to EKs is directly transferable to campaigns in every case. Buildings, parcels, and trade mechanisms in the EKs are also directly trasferable to add value to campaigns. Hell, the EK's parcel design systems make it easy for ACE to implement a campaign where players adding parcels to the map can be a campaign feature with very little additional engineering work if they want to. That's not on the planned features list but the underlying systems let them PUT it there without literally rewriting half the game or building an entirely new interface or crafting system as any other game would need to.

 

Aaaaand now I want a campaign that starts off with a really small map but lets players craft their own parcels (not from the store, just crafted ones) and start building out the map. Thanks. ;)


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1 minute ago, Svenn said:

 

Aaaaand now I want a campaign that starts off with a really small map but lets players craft their own parcels (not from the store, just crafted ones) and start building out the map. Thanks. ;)

AND BURN THEM TO ASH!


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You can have that. Dude can set up an EK with pvp on. Grant Noble status to the people with land and let them all fight. Hold tourneys if they like. All sorts of minigames can come about because of this. 

Hell I could do that with one of my alt accounts and set up a hellword type thing. Purchase Noble status for say 10K gold.  Heh. it could be fun.

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5 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Just a suggestion:

...

 

What he said.  Exactly.  Saved me the time writing out the same thing.  PopeUrban talks a lot -- occasionally he says something smart.

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1 hour ago, srathor said:

You can have that. Dude can set up an EK with pvp on. Grant Noble status to the people with land and let them all fight. Hold tourneys if they like. All sorts of minigames can come about because of this. 

Hell I could do that with one of my alt accounts and set up a hellword type thing. Purchase Noble status for say 10K gold.  Heh. it could be fun.

WELCOME TO SRATHORDOME


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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3 hours ago, Svenn said:

It's pretty trivial to set up something that keeps a vessel fed and moves it around every once in a while. People would easily do this.

More importantly, there's no reason not to just let people freely spin up a public EK on demand so that none of that is necessary and less server resources are needed overall anyway.

It is a resource sink...   nothing is free, everything is a sink or the economy stalls.   I bet those who produce food want a food sink.


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23 minutes ago, Brindylln said:

What he said.  Exactly.  Saved me the time writing out the same thing.  PopeUrban talks a lot -- occasionally he says something smart.

Eulogize me bro.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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7 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

False. EKs are Crowfall's answer to "What is the reward for winning campaigns?"

Its all well and good to theorize you'd want to win campaigns just to win, or for a number on a stat sheet, but that kind of long term payoff is an anathema to how MMO players actually value rewards. People who play an MMO (and especially an MMO where looting other players is a core part of the reward system) generally do so because the accrual of tangible ingame rewards is appealing to them. People play a game with loot in it because they want to acquire loot.

EKs are where people keep the loot, and more importantly, where players can show off that loot.

Not only that, but the EK systems are built specifically to use the same mechanisms as campaign worlds, only with a player admin toggle. The work that goes in to EKs is directly transferable to campaigns in every case. Buildings, parcels, and trade mechanisms in the EKs are also directly trasferable to add value to campaigns. Hell, the EK's parcel design systems make it easy for ACE to implement a campaign where players adding parcels to the map can be a campaign feature with very little additional engineering work if they want to. That's not on the planned features list but the underlying systems let them PUT it there without literally rewriting half the game or building an entirely new interface or crafting system as any other game would need to.

They allow players to acquire and show off wealth no matter which campaigns they like to play, and in the case of import campaigns lay the groundwork for a very important part of the game (trading and building items for import to "hit the ground running") without also breaking the balance of the campaign design.

AND they've opted to make them totally optional so the relatively small number of players who claim they're "here for the challenge" and "don't care about loot" (in a game built entirely on the premise that loot is power and required to win any form of pvp contest) can completely ignore them and not gimp themselves by doing so.

They're not a money sink at all. They're an important part of the reward loop for a game in which the servers are temporary because they're permanent.

Correct ^


Check out my youtube channel for testing gameplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp-AgZ6mHOVObusemDVEXoA

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16 hours ago, Jah said:

You have to remember that not everyone plans to avoid the EKs and all campaigns with Imports. It may add little benefit for a player that chooses to ignore the persistent economy and Import campaigns, but that doesn't mean it doesn't add gameplay benefit for everyone else.

Also they are making an assumption that the EK will rely heavily on the game server and not run on the monarchs computer.

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