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1 hour ago, entityofsin said:

The game has to be built around a particular activity or have the room to have such things implemented into it for it to work out.

Don't build the game around trading accounts being the most efficient and least costly method to catch up or bootstrap a new account. Now you don't have a reason to allow people to pay to exploit their way around that system by throwing dollars at it.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, PopeUrban said:

Don't build the game around trading accounts being the most efficient and least costly method to catch up or bootstrap a new account. Now you don't have a reason to allow people to pay to exploit their way around that system by throwing dollars at it.

Whether you give someone a method that is supported through the game or not, people are going to find a way to do it that bypasses whatever punishments that are put in place.

It wouldn't really be much different than me buying a new account after I've crafted a ton of skill tomes and then put a full year of VIP on the new account plus gave it all the skill tomes to ultimately just give my friend the login information for whatever he is going to give me in return that is outside of any system ACE has that they could record this activity from other than different IP Addresses accessing the account.

So I should be banned for that and so should the new account I would give to my friend? That's pretty dumb. After all, I spent money on getting the new account. I spent money on 12 months of VIP. I spent time playing the game to craft skill tomes along with training time in stuff my friend wants or acquired the resources to trade in game for skill tomes for things he wants to be in Crowfall. Either way, there's a lot more money than the $210 transaction I would have given ACE in this theoretical situation cause I would have had to skill train up something to get the skill tomes for it, someone else would have as well if I don't have the skill training in the tree. But that initial $200+ money spent just to get a friend into the game with a brand new account would be worth it for ACE.

Yes, let's prevent any degree of this kind of action ever to happen because it some how bypasses ACE's primary monetization model behind Crowfall. /facepalm

Edited by entityofsin

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Posted (edited)

Except it would. See, when you're selling him an account, you're not just selling him the trains. You're selling him an identity. That's my problem. You're also incentivized greatly to AVOID the intended catch up mechanic and AVOID producing skill tomes so that you can sell the account for higher value (as it has more trains on it) which increases the price point for people who... you know... just want to play the game and use the game's built in mechanic to catch up because less people are actually producing the tomes.

Allowing you to sell your account actively harms every other competing system, and makes the entire concept of reputation being tied to an account obsolete.

Your friend should buy his own account, (or be gifted a fresh one from the same store page) and buy his own skill tomes, or hey, just turn all your skills in to tomes and give them to him if you don't want to play any more. We don't need some kind of revolving door system where entityofsin doesn't mean anything other than "I happen to have this account at the moment, until I get bored with it and offload it to someone else."

Saying "some people will get away with it" is not a reason to do literally anything. Diablo 3 tried that, remember? The logic was "people will RMT for items anyway, so we should run the storefront" and look where that ended up. The RMT storefront became so ubiquitous that it undermined the core gameplay loop. They removed it for that exact reason.

Econ and super pilot accounts are so heavily commoditized in EVE through this system that the default action to get in to those activities at endgame level isn't even to train it any more. Its to buy one of the many "off the shelf" accounts people have parked specifically for the purpose of sale. That's not a good system. When someone asks "how do I become X" the default answer should be "play the game" not "pull out your wallet"

People get away with robbery. That doesn't mean we legalize robbery because the law against it is unenforceable. We make a law against robbery and attempt to enforce it to the best of our ability because allowing it to happen undermines the core systems of ownership and trade of goods. I'm not saying account trading is unethical, but I am saying that legitimizing rather than punishing it ABSOLUTELY undermines the intended gameplay loop, and ABSOLUTELY undermines the entire concept of reputation and interaction with other players having social consequences.

Edited by PopeUrban

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ACE already got their money from the new account purchase and months of VIP spent on the account. It isn't like the money magically leaves their bank account because someone else is now using the account that money was generated from.

If a person has and is willing to drop $350 on a trained up account that has what they want to play and they're a prospective new player, they might do that. That's +1 more players in the game now. That's a positive thing. That's another person that could buy more accounts, more VIP for those accounts, etc. and do the same thing. Could even lead to that person getting more of their friends into the game, which means more account purchases, more VIP bought, etc.

Not everyone is going to trade, give away, or sell excess accounts. To even do that and turn it into anything worth your time in making cash would be pretty difficult to do compared to other things you could spend your attention on that would make you actual real money outside of Crowfall.

I understand the concern you have. I guess I see more net positive gain from it than negative. Meh, different perceptives I suppose. Different perceptives are a good thing to have in this community. :)

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1 hour ago, entityofsin said:

I understand the concern you have. I guess I see more net positive gain from it than negative. Meh, different perceptives I suppose. Different perceptives are a good thing to have in this community. :)

gandalf.gif

gandalf.gif

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I really don't want soft launch to taint player expectations.

I know that money doesn't grow on trees, but I feel like there must be a better way to monetize the pre-production game to current players without tainting people's opinions.

I know Starcitizen was able to sell ships to players, and successfully create a loop for funding production. I think there needs to be some serious thought as to what sorts of things yal could be offering instead of full launch.

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Posted (edited)

Regarding the OP's original comment.

Being worried about people not playing a game because some other people have been playing before them is kind of nuts?

That's like suggesting people won't start playing an MMO a week or two after it's launch, because they're worried people might be ahead of them.

Progression is far more horizontal in this game that it is in BDO, for example.

I feel like you've been sitting in your guild's echo chamber too much, which is easy for all of us to do.

Edited by xaine

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17 hours ago, xaine said:

Regarding the OP's original comment.

Being worried about people not playing a game because some other people have been playing before them is kind of nuts?

That's like suggesting people won't start playing an MMO a week or two after it's launch, because they're worried people might be ahead of them.

Progression is far more horizontal in this game that it is in BDO, for example.

I feel like you've been sitting in your guild's echo chamber too much, which is easy for all of us to do.

With the way you need to keep your target redacial whom you are attacking, personal skill will also have a major effect.  Someone like me with a shaker hand, will be less skillful that someone that is good at first person shooters. 

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That rush to get more capital when the game barely functions is going to custard them imo

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39 minutes ago, mandalore said:

That rush to get more capital when the game barely functions is going to custard them imo

There is no rush to get more capital going on. Why do you think there is?

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You think the game, at the current rate of progress is ready?  And gordon admitted they wanted to rush the soft launch to get subs going (it was in his video with keagann).

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Just now, mandalore said:

You think the game, at the current rate of progress is ready?  And gordon admitted they wanted to rush the soft launch to get subs going (it was in his video with keagann).

Nobody said the game is ready, and nobody said the game will launch before it is ready.

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I hope that's the case.  I WANT to agree with you.  They need to show me that's the case though and you can't know that either until they do so.  Did you watch the stream with keaggan interviewing him?  It's hard to have faith after watching it.  I want Crowfall to work, don't mistake my dissent for hoping the game fails.  This is the closest I will ever get to SB 2. 

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Just now, mandalore said:

You think the game, at the current rate of progress is ready?  And gordon admitted they wanted to rush the soft launch to get subs going (it was in his video with keagann).

No, it is not ready. 

They want to rush to get the game ready, so they can justify starting subs with a quality game, not because they are in a rush to "get more capital".

They will take as long as it needs to get the game sub worthy, but like all of us, are quite anxious for it to be worth paying subs for and to see if it lives up to its potential.

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Just now, mandalore said:

I hope that's the case.  I WANT to agree with you.  They need to show me that's the case though and you can't know that either until they do so.  Did you watch the stream with keaggan interviewing him?  It's hard to have faith after watching it.  I want Crowfall to work, don't mistake my dissent for hoping the game fails.  This is the closest I will ever get to SB 2. 

I did watch that stream. I'm not convinced that you did.

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Just now, Jah said:

I did watch that stream. I'm not convinced that you did.

Evil hooligan Cheney Clone makes me nervous when it comes to money issues.  Is it unfounded? IDK 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I hope that's the case.  I WANT to agree with you.  They need to show me that's the case though and you can't know that either until they do so.  Did you watch the stream with keaggan interviewing him?  It's hard to have faith after watching it.  I want Crowfall to work, don't mistake my dissent for hoping the game fails.  This is the closest I will ever get to SB 2. 

Wish you would have invested when the opportunity to do so existed, so we could talk about it more in detail. 

When people poach one line from one interview, in one slightly unguarded moment, and blow it completely out of proportion, even with the plethora of other interviews, and other things available that demonstrate not only their goals but character as well, no wonder they got cagey and careful about what they say or allow investors to talk about publicly.

Let's put it this way, if there was ANY serious problem with their plan, all of us investors who are also hoping for the best damn MMO game ever and care more about that than ROI, would be swarming this forum, or the investor forum, with very loud and angry complaints.

But that hasn't happened has it?

So maybe stop being a negative nancy and increasing the FUD if you actually do want this game to succeed.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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3 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I have two early bird KS amber accounts. 

Then I have to ask, what do you hope to accomplish by spreading FUD?

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