Recommended Posts

Sorry I'm not a sycophant and dissent when I feel I should.  I don't have to agree with JTC and EVil Cheney Clone all the time for them to have my support and investment.  JTC made a game before that I played for years and has some of my best gaming memories.  He's making a game that very similar, why wouldn't I invest in something like that?  I just worry they will rush, they are a business after all.  They are doing this to make money and eventually they have to.  They don't have Marc Jacobs to lean on like CU does.  I just hope that they have the foresight to ensure that the need to eventually soft launch doesn't impede the progress of the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was rushed, it failed horribly at launch.  I never meant to imply sb is the way it should be launched bc it shouldn't be the model.   I just enjoyed the player driven politics instead of predetermined factions.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, mandalore said:

Please don't launch CF like you did SB. 

I trust that the founders have learned a few things about running MMOs in the past 15-20 years to apply to CF, and they want to avoid a repeat of the SB launch scenario as much as we do. Creating a game for this kind of niche audience is a passion project - it takes a special kind of crazy to want to build an open-world pvp MMO. If they wanted to sell out for the monies, they'd be throwing all our KS dollars into advertising hype right now instead of making the game (and they would have picked the Mobile game market instead :P).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, mandalore said:

Sorry I'm not a sycophant and dissent when I feel I should.  I don't have to agree with JTC and EVil Cheney Clone all the time for them to have my support and investment.  JTC made a game before that I played for years and has some of my best gaming memories.  He's making a game that very similar, why wouldn't I invest in something like that?  I just worry they will rush, they are a business after all.  They are doing this to make money and eventually they have to.  They don't have Marc Jacobs to lean on like CU does.  I just hope that they have the foresight to ensure that the need to eventually soft launch doesn't impede the progress of the game. 

There is a very large gap between being a sycophant and agreeing with everything they do, calling them to task on bad calls, or even just calls you happen to disagree with, and questioning their motives and moral character, and calling him an "Evil Cheney Clone".  What a horrible, insulting and dismissive statement of someone you allegedly want to succeed. Did you think you were being clever by being so insulting? Are you proud of yourself?

(You want to know something, Gordon personally answered and thanked me for a crash report support ticket on SUNDAY.  He was picking up support tickets on the freaking weekend. How's that for "Evil".) 

4 hours ago, mandalore said:

I hope that's the case.  I WANT to agree with you.  They need to show me that's the case though and you can't know that either until they do so.  Did you watch the stream with keaggan interviewing him?  It's hard to have faith after watching it.  I want Crowfall to work, don't mistake my dissent for hoping the game fails.  This is the closest I will ever get to SB 2. 

Yea, and I heard what Gordon said too, which you and apparently many other people missed the real intent of because the FUD spreading streamer pre-loaded your subconscious with a specific bias, and cut out exactly what he wanted you to hear to support his argument, so you would actually miss the intent of the words. An intent that is easy to find in all the other videos and quotes ACE has put out over the years. (See multiple examples earlier in this thread).

  • Quote

     

    • Gordon :If you say beta, can you charge? 
    • Keaggan: A lot of games do.
    • Gordon: Ok, well we don't think you should charge for beta's, so we are calling our thing a soft launch.

     

     

Notice the word Gordon used, "should", not "can".  Should is a moral word, a word very similar to "aught", That word indicates they won't start soft launch until it's better than a beta. The way I see it, it roughly translates into, "you should not charge for an incomplete game". and that the feeling is that players should not be charged for participating in a beta. 

If anything it's less cash grab than any game that does charge for beta.  In fact, they are having an open, free to play, beta before the "soft launch", because they don't feel justified in charging for a beta. Soft launch is basically, "we think is complete enough to pay for because we pushed it through beta, so let's take it for a spin with real players and early adopters before committing to marketing".  That is all.

It's all in the spin, setting up a straw man, and then ripping two sentences out of context.

It's sort of like finding Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich.  If nobody tells you that's what it is supposed to be, you probably wouldn't even see the face.ynyhME6.jpg

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a lot of the investors in this community would verbalize their dissent if it were going down the trendy path of MMOs. I invested into this game because a group of people that I trust to make a game that I enjoyed in the past (SWG-- and that was a ridiculously clunky game in it's early days too), who gave the public an image of a game they want to make, but bringing in as many of the old systems that made those games enjoyable in the first place. These guys (mind you, these guys are all literally the crème de la crème of game developers) are pulling from all of their old systems, the things that we, the players, loved. Maybe watching the murder of crows will give you more faith in them (of course im not saying it will 100% succeed, I can't read the future). I've been heartbroken by games on release, and I've learned not to preorder... but Crowfall was the last game I've ever backed.

These guys are not in it just for the money... these guys love what they do, and they want to be the best at it, the money is just a means to that dream. Shame on those who think otherwise.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This discussion is leading me to flashbacks to past MMORPG's I've alpha tested that failed. This game's development needs testers that question development not blindly follow along saying everything is great.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Barab said:

This discussion is leading me to flashbacks to past MMORPG's I've alpha tested that failed. This game's development needs testers that question development not blindly follow along saying everything is great.

 

I like how things are going. I can wait for whatever deadlines people think are officially made even if things get pushed back (there are no deadlines anyways). 

I am also not blindly following along. If there's something I actually don't like, which I've voiced concerns about stuff plenty of times, then I speak up. For the most part I think this game is on a really good path in implementing content and getting new stuff in the pipeline pushed out to test servers and then on live after a first pass on optimization.

Nobody is trying to sweep any of the legitimate concerns people have about Crowfall under the rug. Combat needs worked on (server stability might simply fix this), new player experience needs to be made, crafting needs another pass or two on, skill training trees needs another pass, gathering probably needs another pass, campaign rule sets need to be implemented to begin with and probably another pass on them, the whole item gained and lost loop needs to be looked at, overall optimization for all game features and systems needs to be done, and there's probably a plethora of other things I can't think of right now that need attention.

All of these things people have expressed concerns on and a lot of those people are those you seem to be considering as blind followers that say everything is great when that isn't even remotely close to what is going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Scree said:

Hey! I represent that statement!

I know :P

 

Krak, brah, you seem upset.  The man calls himself Tyrant, obviously he can take a joke (and he does look like hooligan cheney).  I've dealt with him on a plethora of issues and he is exceedingly responsive and helpful but he is a shrewd business man.  When they do right I praise them, when they do wrong I call them on their hogwash.  You done white knighting them?  Can you resume the topic of the thread without further derailing and forcing them to close the discussion?  Are you done being a lickspittle?  Have you sufficiently bent the knee in praise of the all father?  Stop being so obsequious.

 

The OP voiced concerns and I agree with some of his statements.  It would be nice to get some dev love on the thread but I'd honestly rather them work instead of humoring us right now. 

 

Also, RIP the stoneborn hype...  

Edited by mandalore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Barab said:

This discussion is leading me to flashbacks to past MMORPG's I've alpha tested that failed. This game's development needs testers that question development not blindly follow along saying everything is great.

 

I disagree, I think that while there are a lot of people who vehemently support the game, I don't think I've seen a whole lot of "this game is perfect and nothing needs to be changed.  Personally, my benchmark is the FFXIV alpha, where there was zero communication from the dev team, and the player base was largely Square white knighters.  Now I love Square, and I played FFXI, but FFXIV was *not good* during the alpha, and it launched that way in part because the dev team had no/minimal interaction (even on the Japanese side) and the player base largely fell back on "it will be fine".  Here is very different- the devs are interactive, supportive of criticisms of the game mechanics with a willingness to change course, and even the people who love the systems the most will often qualify their support in favor of "when the game is ready" or will offer suggestions for improvements.  Even debates like this thread I think feel a lot healthier than similar debates in other development cycles.

 

As for the question of soft launch vs commercial launch I see both sides of the argument.  I have friends whose initial reaction was "oh some people are going to be ahead at the start?"  And they were kind of turned off.  But they weren't completely sold on the premise itself, and this game won't be for everyone and that's ok.  I think that the right marketing campaign won't use the terminology we're using now during the development phase, and the word "launch" seems to be what people are hung up on.  The "commercial launch" isn't going to be a "HEY WE'RE LAUNCHING THE GAME IN A MONTH" it's probably going to be "Come join our active community with some really cool new features!"  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Barab said:

This discussion is leading me to flashbacks to past MMORPG's I've alpha tested that failed. This game's development needs testers that question development not blindly follow along saying everything is great.

 

If ACE was suddenly course correcting on a direction and steps in the plan made over 2 year, and backed by 20+ million in pledges and investments, because of a few noisy and ill informed or deliberately obtuse internet pundits, then I would we worried.

As it is, @entityofsin gave a great list of things that have issues that need to be addressed.  Other than details on the timing, which will become more clear as progress is made, the launch plan is not one of them.

53 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I know :P

 

Krak, brah, you seem upset.  The man calls himself Tyrant, obviously he can take a joke (and he does look like hooligan cheney).  I've dealt with him on a plethora of issues and he is exceedingly responsive and helpful but he is a shrewd business man.  When they do right I praise them, when they do wrong I call them on their hogwash.  You done white knighting them?  Can you resume the topic of the thread without further derailing and forcing them to close the discussion?  Are you done being a lickspittle?  Have you sufficiently bent the knee in praise of the all father?  Stop being so obsequious.

 

The OP voiced concerns and I agree with some of his statements.  It would be nice to get some dev love on the thread but I'd honestly rather them work instead of humoring us right now. 

 

Also, RIP the stoneborn hype...  

It was really not obvious you were trying to be humorous, if you were.  I know he can take a joke. Those Obey posters with his face on them in the background of a few streams make that clear. 

That said, the context of your message was not jockular, it was entirely critical, with supposedly that one inflammatory reference being the exceptions.  That kinda makes me think of those youtube "prank" videos where people are just simply unpleasant person bags, sometimes criminally so, and they try to hand wave asinine behavior with "oh it was just a prank".

Sorry, no free pass on that for you.

BTW, calling me a lickspittle is I think about the third post this thread I could flag as being against the terms and conditions.  I don't usually take that step, I prefer people with different opinions to express them as frequently as possible to show how wrong they are, or to bring up a good arguments that may sway me. 

But keep up the personal insults and name calling, and I will start flagging.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You done virtue signalling? 

 

Can we discuss the op's point yet?

 

Edited by mandalore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mandalore said:

You done virtue signalling? 

 

Can we discuss the op's point yet?

 

OP's original concerns have been answered, multiple times by multiple people, but feel free to add something new to the discussion any time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Barab said:

This discussion is leading me to flashbacks to past MMORPG's I've alpha tested that failed. This game's development needs testers that question development not blindly follow along saying everything is great.

The only issue I have is calling it "soft" launch, because that term confuses people. There can only be one real launch date, that's the point with no more data wipes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, miraluna said:

The only issue I have is calling it "soft" launch, because that term confuses people. There can only be one real launch date, that's the point with no more data wipes. 

"Un-marketed" just doesn't roll off the tongue like "soft" does, which is really what they seem to mean.  "Comercial launch" then followed by "marketing launch" could work.  I seem to remember some discussion about that suggestion of a name change from some thread a few weeks ago.....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

"Un-marketed" just doesn't roll off the tongue like "soft" does, which is really what they seem to mean.  "Comercial launch" then followed by "marketing launch" could work.  I seem to remember some discussion about that suggestion of a name change from some thread a few weeks ago.....

I still think they should just call it "Launch" regardless of how they plan to spend their advertising budget.

Then they can ramp up their advertising as they see fit. Advertising a product after it has already launched is nothing new. They don't need to label that with some other kind of "launch."

If they really want to have a separate launch after they've already launched, I'd suggest launching an expansion instead and advertising that heavily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.