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kaizoq

Spears

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I've always looked for a properly implemented naginata in an MMO but never found one. It is an amazing weapon with incredible possibilities, when wielded properly.

 

Also, a proper war-hammer. Almost a pick. The ones that evolved through armored combat. Not these ridiculous mauls and sledges we always see in games. They need to come to a punching tip, like the Lucerne shown above (but with a one or two handed haft, not a polearm). They are never done properly in game. Best thing for a footman (not set) or a rider (not charging) to get through armor.

 

But, back to OP, spears, eastern or western, would be my weapon of choice if implemented correctly. Naginata preferred.

Edited by bairloch

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I want so, so badly to see spears, always been one of my favorite fantasy styled weapons, and that includes the variants like halberds and such.

 

Honestly, I hope we see a good healthy variety of weapons you don't see all too often. The traditional stand-bys are fine and all. But I mean, who doesn't want to see things shaken up now and again?

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both of those examples isolate 2 features which were typically both seen on halberds, axe blade on one side, and spike on the other, and typically had about the same weight, the axe is just flattened out into a blade rather than a blunt hammer. overall, I'd always take the spike and axe over any other combination, the hammer just doesn't drive like the spike and the blade offers enough chop to take off a limb, the pole hammer isn't very attractive really >.<

 

an interesting take...

 

Historically, the Lucerne is considered the last big weapon advancement just before gunpowder...it was thought to be, and used as an evolution of the Halberd due to the advent of better armors that were more curved and hardened to deflect any edged weapon with just the slightest rotation or "rolling" with the blow delivered...

 

note the "can opener" shape of the spike on the Lucerne's back end...this was used not only to hook, but to literally penetrate and open the armor of a downed knight...

 

as for the Hammer portion of the weapon...the axe blade of a halberd was almost negated by the newer armor design's and materials, the increased hardness and curve deflecting a huge percentage of possible strikes...but the Hammer, especially the quad point style used in the pic i posted, ALWAYS delivered a crushing blow when hitting ...yes, it did not often penetrate the steel, but most times it DID "crush" and/or deform the armor hit...

 

and if i put a 2 inch dent in your chestpiece or arm guard, not only is range of motion limited, but there's a good possiblity of broken bones...yes?

 

also...the hammer was an excellent way to take down a horsed or standing opponent, even when it hit an actively wielded shield due to pure physics

 

thanks for the nerdy discourse, not too often this kind of topic gets discussed knowledgeably .....

 

..:::bows, hand over fist:::..


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Still, looks a little top heavy, lol.

 

 It may be, however the strength on that Centaur could handle it with ease me thinks ;)   Being a halberd type weapon, it has the pointy parts of a spear for solid thrusting damage, + the optional cleave should the character give it a solid 2H arcing sweep. 

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an interesting take...

 

Historically, the Lucerne is considered the last big weapon advancement just before gunpowder...it was thought to be, and used as an evolution of the Halberd due to the advent of better armors that were more curved and hardened to deflect any edged weapon with just the slightest rotation or "rolling" with the blow delivered...

 

note the "can opener" shape of the spike on the Lucerne's back end...this was used not only to hook, but to literally penetrate and open the armor of a downed knight...

 

as for the Hammer portion of the weapon...the axe blade of a halberd was almost negated by the newer armor design's and materials, the increased hardness and curve deflecting a huge percentage of possible strikes...but the Hammer, especially the quad point style used in the pic i posted, ALWAYS delivered a crushing blow when hitting ...yes, it did not often penetrate the steel, but most times it DID "crush" and/or deform the armor hit...

 

and if i put a 2 inch dent in your chestpiece or arm guard, not only is range of motion limited, but there's a good possiblity of broken bones...yes?

 

also...the hammer was an excellent way to take down a horsed or standing opponent, even when it hit an actively wielded shield due to pure physics

 

thanks for the nerdy discourse, not too often this kind of topic gets discussed knowledgeably .....

 

..:::bows, hand over fist:::..

 

I did notice the 4 points on the hammer, and it does seem like it would catch slippery armor, I guess being an observer will always leave one lacking in some insight.

Edited by BahamutKaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Couple of things about spears:

 

1. They aren't considered as heroic/sexy as the sword, axe, or even hammer. Most fantasy nerds could name half a dozen swords easy, while maybe 1 spear.

2. In terms of balance they cause a problem. Do you allow them additional reach? If yes, how do you compensate so that everyone doesn't pick it? If it does (even a little) less damage, then no one wants to do less than optimal dps to get 1 extra attack in on closing. If no, how is it different than any other weapon?

3. Animations. You get to use pretty much the same animations for sword/mace/axe. Maybe tweak them just a bit to emphasize the weight of one. This is also true for 1 or 2 handed variations. Now when you make animations for spears, they are used completely differently than the other weapons. These animations must be used pretty much only with spears, and to compound the issue, 2 handed varieties most of the animations involve crossing your arm to one side, as opposed to other 2 handed weapons holding in front of your generally. These animations are a little more difficult to make look smooth and natural when you have unusual models. (overly giant shoulders or short arms).

 

That being said spears are so hugely important in actual history its almost comical how scarce they are in fantasy. 

 

 

I hope that they give spear using classes a lot of thrust type abilities. So that they make better sense in big groups than wide sweeping arcs of swords or axes, which would cause lots of FF issues.

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Most fantasy nerds could name half a dozen swords easy, while maybe 1 spear.

 

Odin's spear Gungnir is probably the first one most would come up with, but there's also Arthur's spear Rhongomiant, plus several from Irish mythology: Diarmuid's spears Gae Buide and Gae Derg, Cuchulainn's spear Gae Bulg, Lugh's spears Gae Assail and Areadbhar, Cormac's spear Crimall, and the Luin of Celtchar.

 

Plus there's the Holy Lance / Spear of Longinus, if you want to stretch the definition of "fantasy" just a tiny bit.


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Odin's spear Gungnir is probably the first one most would come up with, but there's also Arthur's spear Rhongomiant, plus several from Irish mythology: Diarmuid's spears Gae Buide and Gae Derg, Cuchulainn's spear Gae Bulg, Lugh's spears Gae Assail and Areadbhar, Cormac's spear Crimall, and the Luin of Celtchar.

 

Plus there's the Holy Lance / Spear of Longinus, if you want to stretch the definition of "fantasy" just a tiny bit.

 

My point wasn't that no one knows any. Its just that in a broad sense, swords are far more well known. Even the most popular one, I would guess Odin's Gungnir, would pale in comparison in general surveys. Ask 100 people on the Street: What is Gungnir? Gae Derg? Areadbhar? I am thinking youd get maybe 20 know 1, and maybe 2 know 2 and 3. Now ask that same group of people: What is Excalibur? Sting? Icingdeath? Well then I bet its closer to 80, 75, and 10%.

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Couple of things about spears:

 

1. They aren't considered as heroic/sexy as the sword, axe, or even hammer. Most fantasy nerds could name half a dozen swords easy, while maybe 1 spear.

2. In terms of balance they cause a problem. Do you allow them additional reach? If yes, how do you compensate so that everyone doesn't pick it? If it does (even a little) less damage, then no one wants to do less than optimal dps to get 1 extra attack in on closing. If no, how is it different than any other weapon?

3. Animations. You get to use pretty much the same animations for sword/mace/axe. Maybe tweak them just a bit to emphasize the weight of one. This is also true for 1 or 2 handed variations. Now when you make animations for spears, they are used completely differently than the other weapons. These animations must be used pretty much only with spears, and to compound the issue, 2 handed varieties most of the animations involve crossing your arm to one side, as opposed to other 2 handed weapons holding in front of your generally. These animations are a little more difficult to make look smooth and natural when you have unusual models. (overly giant shoulders or short arms).

 

That being said spears are so hugely important in actual history its almost comical how scarce they are in fantasy. 

 

 

I hope that they give spear using classes a lot of thrust type abilities. So that they make better sense in big groups than wide sweeping arcs of swords or axes, which would cause lots of FF issues.

Rather than make the weapon skills themselves weaker you can make the wielder more fragile, and you share animation with polearms (blade ones) but with longer reach and smaller swipes.And yes its sad that spear are thought as less than swords....

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I just hope spears can be used by most races...so far we only have confirmation on centaurs (which, let's be honest, horse men aren't really the ideal demographic for "Oberyn Martell"/Gladiator style.

You forgot templars fury promotion class.

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You forgot templars fury promotion class.

Ya, I was planning on being a knight originally but then I saw they didn't really have spears so now I will probably be a templar. But let's face it, they are basically the same class, just different promotions. Not to mention, J Todd Coleman even went as far as to say they might reuse the male knight model for the male templar.

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"hardest hitting"...???

 

lucerne hammer perhaps?

 

lucerne-onhand-large.jpg

 

and as always... Gaunsaku-san types Wisely...

 

lots of good Stuff in this Thread...

 

put me down as a +1 for all kinds of polearms...

Spears,poleamrs,all good..the one in the picture reminds me of a very large fire poker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlNG5rWNokk&feature=youtu.be&t=167

(oh I miss tales from the crypt :lol:)

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Ya, I was planning on being a knight originally but then I saw they didn't really have spears so now I will probably be a templar. But let's face it, they are basically the same class, just different promotions. Not to mention, J Todd Coleman even went as far as to say they might reuse the male knight model for the male templar.

First, it seems that templar will likely use some magical defense and attack as he is a tankish melee like the knight but doesn't seem to use a shield. Second, I asked in the reddit Q&A if different archetypes of the same race would have different body types (if by model you mean that) and his answer was this, now I want to believe that templars won't be as ''buff'' as knight modelwise and be more lean and agile looking. 

 

Q: Will different archetypes of the same race have different physique to fit their role more?

A: f I'm understand correctly, you're asking "if we add a Fae spellcaster, would she had a different height/weight/body style?"
Yes, she certainly could. One of the benefits of the archetype system is that each archetype can be VERY different. That said, we'll always have to be mindful of animation reuse, because animations are INCREDIBLY expensive, so it'll probably be a mix. For example, I'm expecting that we'll get some reuse between the Male Champion and the Minotaur... even though the overall look will be significantly different.
 

Edit: Third, Disciplines, while not sure it does seem that some may give you the ability to use specific weapons no matter your archetype.

Edited by Wotaze

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Pole-arms are for sure in (at least as for-sure as anything is at this stage)

136522222c5cf55a3f0d5b990799e7df_origina

 

Fury promotion class is shown wielding a spear and although the end seems rather larger than your usual spear, it is a game... and we are playing as heroes ("I know, bloody heroes, right?"). I think they will appear more as oversized spearheads, winged spears or corseques simply because those look cooler than the original spear.

 

Well that is one ridiculous looking axe.

 

As for the "ax" that looks so ridiculous I would like to point out that it is a weapon that exists although they enlarged the end for effect. The idea is that you gain reach and power. More reach means things don't get as close to you before they die and more power (along with the spike on the back to pierce armor) means those things are more likely to die even with full plate. The weapon is called a pollaxe.

 

It's a Halberd, pole axe+spear.

 

 

halberds.gif

 

It's actually not a halberd because it has the armor piercing straight spike rather than a curved one to grapple mounted opponents. Very small difference aesthetically but it made a big difference in how the weapon was wielded I'm sure (never used one myself). If you still want to call it a halberd though be my guest, I don't really care.

Edited by epee11c

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Just a few observations that have been passed over................Spears were in use in modern warfare as late as the 20th century.  Bayonets?

 

 

We already know that we will have mounts.  So, chances are we will have cavalry.  Spears are a good counter for cavalry. 

Edited by surbear

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Just a few observations that have been passed over................Spears were in use in modern warfare as late as the 20th century.  Bayonets?

 

 

We already know that we will have mounts.  So, chances are we will have cavalry.  Spears are a good counter for cavalry. 

 Bayonets are... well bayonets not spears:P, as for the cavalry I pretty sure it was already mentioned:D

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