ACE_Jackal

World-Building Pt. 1 - Official Discussion Thread

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Posted (edited)

Re: Bridges

Mortal online had a lot of problems but bridges was one thing it did right.

Every bridge in the entire game was a hippo with drop points on both sides of the bridge. At the time of a server coming online you walked up to a bridge and it was unbuilt. You would have to supply it with wood in order to build it, and if it served you you had the ability to destroy the bridge again as well (to return it to hippo status)

This was used in multiple levels of severity.

Some bridges just went over little rivers you could swim across, so they were only truly inconvenient for people riding horses (as you had to dismount and lead the horses across) so if you're hanging about in the forest for a day or setting up an ambush it was in your best interests to take out the bridge. If you were running a bunch of stuff between two towns and needed to cross the river, it was a good idea to check if the bridge was up first, and build it again if it wasn't.

Other bridges were multiple hippo things that spanned huge fall-to-your-death chasms that literally locked off areas of the world.

Bridges, walls, rockslides, moongates, collapsed tunnels, and other neutral choke point control mechanisms as destructable unowned hippos can help pace and direct exploration as well as serve as interesting tactical wrinkles. When building these systems, please consider the tactical utility of destructable and rebuildable hippo POIs for these kinds of terrain features.

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Edited by PopeUrban

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Still trying to figure out how to make roads worthwhile.  Ideally I want some kind of a travelling or caravan benefits (reduced stamina, increased speed, increased caravan or mount speed, etc) so that using a road is a risk/reward mechanic.

I hate water in games. It looks cool, but mechanically it's a huge (read: expensive) pain in the ass that rarely gives you enough "fun" for the effort.  Boats, on the other hand, are awesome -- but having done an entire game about piracy (Pirate101) they are an even more expensive and bigger pain in the ass.  

so: yes, we have to do something with water, but don't expect a lot before release.  I'd rather spend that time and energy on something more impactful.

Todd

 

 

Regarding adding value to roads, something that was said in the video regarding how it wasn't like the roads were built first and then the mountains, and the concept of some things being organic or natural, made me think that one benefit to roads could be related to the day/night cycle, and how when traveling at night, you would perhaps favor a road lit with lamps over a dark path in the woods...it would or could effectively increase your security indirectly, and perhaps even directly grant a Perception buff.

Edited by Anthrage

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9 hours ago, Anthrage said:

Regarding adding value to roads, something that was said in the video regarding how it wasn't like the roads were built first and then the mountains, and the concept of some things being organic or natural, made me think that one benefit to roads could be related to the day/night cycle, and how when traveling at night, you would perhaps favor a road lit with lamps over a dark path in the woods...it would or could effectively increase your security indirectly, and perhaps even directly grant a Perception buff.

Further to that, they could add hippo towers along roads.  Once upgraded the upgrading team could put thralls guards in them, maybe even a roadside shop, or forward respawn point for crows.

 

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17 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Bridges, walls, rockslides, moongates, collapsed tunnels, and other neutral choke point control mechanisms as destructable unowned hippos can help pace and direct exploration as well as serve as interesting tactical wrinkles. When building these systems, please consider the tactical utility of destructable and rebuildable hippo POIs for these kinds of terrain features.

 

Great idea.  I'll bring it up to the guys.

Todd

 

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Yep! Hippos, and capturable points! 
With Toast messages.
Give us lots of things to do.

Let people build and destroy what was built. It will greatly add to immersion and ownership of things.  Slow the polling of who is close and affecting the bars movement from the more rapid forts and keeps locations and always have it on an extremely slow decay back to neutral. If you want to hold land for your guild or faction you have to have players present to get the benefits (and realm points towards victory). 

If you go with a points system for area control it also adds many knobs and levers for win conditions.  
Stuff like fighting near an enemy controlled flag and getting a kill there is (worth more in realm points) than a kill in the uncontested areas.

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2 hours ago, jtoddcoleman said:

Great idea.  I'll bring it up to the guys.

Todd

 

moongates especially

e.g. at world creation some areas require gate repair to access

e.g. faction capturing and owning to access a area for some

e.g. moongate system changing on season and day night e.g. this gate onlg works at night....and only works in winter etc

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19 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

Every bridge in the entire game was a hippo...

Great stuff Pope man.  I remember that in Mortal Online, and the dynamics it provided were awesome.

But I"m a bit confused.  I don't remember the bridges looking like this:

Spoiler

Hippo-51-1024x659.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Brindylln said:

Great stuff Pope man.  I remember that in Mortal Online, and the dynamics it provided were awesome.

But I"m a bit confused.  I don't remember the bridges looking like this:

  Hide contents

Hippo-51-1024x659.jpg

 

"Hippo" is a term the ACE guys use internally (and in streams, which is how we got to using it) to describe elements like keep walls that sit in the world and just want to be fed until they're full to accomplish whatever task. Those elements are "hungry hungry hippos" and like "doober" it just sort of stuck in the crowfall lexicon after developers used it on a stream.

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Posted (edited)

There is a huge amount of gameplay potential in these systems, even simply with buildable/destructable bridges as chokepoints. Picture this scenario: A campaign world featuring a plateau covered in important valuable resource nodes, similar to the Abbatoir map, accessibly only by a bridge that must be built and can be destroyed. Guild A builds the bridge and crosses it with a guarded harvesting group, with Guild B observing from a safe distance...Guild B lets Guild A get set up, then considers its options.

It can cross the bridge, keeping the escape guarded, and attack the group. It can do that and blow the bridge to prevent escape, or it can blow the bridge and force Guild A to recall to be able to leave the plateau. It can blow the bridge, trapping them there, and then attack Guild A's city...or it can engage them on the plateau, force them to try to escape over the bridge, and then blow it while they are crossing...

So much naturally grows out of these two systems - terrain and buildable/destructable bridges - which is a great of example of something we see throughout Crowfall. Gameplay grows organically out of the foundational systems, and does not need to be artificially put into the game in the form of scripted content. The result is a more natural world that seems more alive, and seeing these things get closer to becoming a reality is pretty exciting. Can't wait to see these things go live!

Edited by Anthrage

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18 hours ago, Anthrage said:

There is a huge amount of gameplay potential in these systems, even simply with buildable/destructable bridges as chokepoints. Picture this scenario: A campaign world featuring a plateau covered in important valuable resource nodes, similar to the Abbatoir map, accessibly only by a bridge that must be built and can be destroyed. Guild A builds the bridge and crosses it with a guarded harvesting group, with Guild B observing from a safe distance...Guild B lets Guild A get set up, then considers its options.

It can cross the bridge, keeping the escape guarded, and attack the group. It can do that and blow the bridge to prevent escape, or it can blow the bridge and force Guild A to recall to be able to leave the plateau. It can blow the bridge, trapping them there, and then attack Guild A's city...or it can engage them on the plateau, force them to try to escape over the bridge, and then blow it while they are crossing...

So much naturally grows out of these two systems - terrain and buildable/destructable bridges - which is a great of example of something we see throughout Crowfall. Gameplay grows organically out of the foundational systems, and does not need to be artificially put into the game in the form of scripted content. The result is a more natural world that seems more alive, and seeing these things get closer to becoming a reality is pretty exciting. Can't wait to see these things go live!

I feel like a toxic doomsayer but I have the same question for almost every scenario.  Can Unity handle this?

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On 26/4/2018 at 9:54 PM, mandalore said:

I feel like a toxic doomsayer but I have the same question for almost every scenario.  Can Unity handle this?

Unity can handle a LOT more things, when used by professional programmers, the reason Unity got a somewhat bad name, is because it is so easy to pick up and make some poorly made socks with, and that poorly made socks made with a free licenses forces the Unity logo in start of the games, where as when professionals work with it with a paid license that unity logo is not there, and thus many ppl dont even realize Unity is behind the games

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Building the Montains and rivers (etc.) before the roads makes more sense.

It is easier to create a montain with a place where a road could pass than the opposite. Maybe a place where players could pass is a better term?

You could check wheter you want that montain to have a pass (If it is localized between stronghold for example) and then decide if you want to make a road to use it.

So instead of making a a single road and fitting the world to it you make a road to the mountain entrance and another from the exit to the other stronghold. This would allow the mountain pass to be another point you could vary. Why not make it mountain dungeon with two (or more) entrances?

This would probably help with the straight roads problems and would also works when not using them. It would be hella cool if could find secret passes on some of those and monopolize them. Following the road is too big a cheat...

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