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Kellindell

What is the natural progression of the game?

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What I mean by that is, if the game went live tomorrow what would be the things you would do?

I've been running all over my campaign, I haven't seen anyone and i haven't seen above rank one resources.

 

I tried farming in my EK to build stuff there but even after training things that increase ED drops and drinking the ED potion and slotting the ED trait after hours of farming I have six.

Experience also comes SUPER slow. After hours of game play I have like 150 survival XP.

 

So I am just wondering what a good efficient linear path would be for someone. When game goes live are people going to live in their EKs building them up so they have crafting stations?

Are people supposed to be dropping crafting stations at our beach head? Is that even a thing?

I've done a ton of running around and gathering all different types of components but I don't feel like I have progressed at all and I don't really see how to either.

With the spirit bank system I don't really see how making all my crafting stations in my EK will help me because everytime I pass gear from my EK to my campaign I will waste a bunch of my limited spirit bank slots. But I haven't found a place to craft in my campaign. And since I am doing crafting and exploration and not combat running around with no armor and no combat skills in my campaign seems very dangerous.

 

So yeah, any newb guide beginner type advice, or even a link to a thread or website would help. If there is something like WoWhead for this game that would be great.

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Crowfall is a "Throne War Simulator". It's a hybrid mix of virtual world MMO sandbox, 4X strategy, and survival.  It's quite different than a traditional themepark like World of Warcraft. In WoW, all the gameplay is focused on individual linear level progression, and then linear gear progression.

In Crowfall you set your own personal goals (e.g. I want to be a well-known blacksmith) and/or community goals (e.g. I want my faction or guild to win a Campaign). The gameplay challenge is in figuring out how you are going to accomplish your goals.

Since CF is still in early development, it feels more like a bunch of systems placed into a test environment than a full game.  Eventually it will become that "Throne War Simulator" - right now as a tester you can give feedback on what systems and features you like, and what you feel needs improvement. 

Couple of info resources: https://malekai.org/  and http://winterblades.net/crowfall-resources/  

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I understand all that.

What I am saying is, for someone who has never played a game like this and specifically this game what are you striving to do and how do you do it.

So let's say I want to be the best blacksmith. What do I do? Do I build up my EK first? or is that not really worth while? Do I come into the campaign first and just spam farm rank one resources? Ive been doing a decent amount of running around on my campaign and I haven't encountered more than a couple people inside our beachhead fort. I have never seen anything above a rank one resource so I don't even know where to go for those. Ive farmed for hours on end and ive gotten like 5 ethereal dust and anything worth while takes 25-50. So I feel like I am doing something wrong there (Yes I trained all the skills to increase drop rates, I make and drink the potions, and I slotted the minor discipline.). 

 

Let's say I want to be the best X class. What do I do upon logging into the game for the first time? Even if I want to do combat do I just work on me EK first? Do I log into a campaign and just farm muskogs?

 

The game isn't very intuitive even for a sandbox game.

I remember back in early SWG days even though were no tutorials and you could go do whatever you wanted it was easy to just figure out on your own how to do something. Granted it had systems this game doesnt have like quest terminals and a better system to kill monsters in PvE for XP. But still, even as a crafter I figured out early on how to survey and grind XP to become better at my craft to keep advancing.

Ive put hours into this game and I don't feel like I have advanced towards anything. I just keep getting more mats to make basic tools so I can get more mats to make more basic tools. There has to be something more than that never ending loop.

 

I am just looking for a logical series of steps to take because I don't currently see any.

 

TLDR: Where do I start as either a crafter or a combat person?

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1 hour ago, Kellindell said:

So I feel like I am doing something wrong there (Yes I trained all the skills to increase drop rates, I make and drink the potions, and I slotted the minor discipline.). 

You are absolutely right that Dust is really slow to get in 5.5! Testers gave feedback on that, and in 5.6 we'll see some major improvements with speedy basic resource harvesting, and the Season of Plenty.  That's the stage of development we are in, things will change every patch based on tester feedback and development progress. 

The game isn't ready for you to be the best blacksmith - not yet :D  What you can do right now is try all the things in the current build, and start thinking about how you will get to your goals at launch when player population will be higher and all the features will be completed. 

 

 

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Thank you.

 

I guess what I am getting at is, even after play testing I cannot even conceive on how I will attain those goals.

I watch videos and I see people with good gear harvesting high tier resource and getting in these giant keep fights and I have no idea how to get there. I seem to be stuck in an infinite loop of harvesting T1 stuff, but obviously there is a way out because people currently playing the game seem to have gotten pretty far.

 

One thing I hate more when entering a game is floundering because that turns into a snowball effect you often cannot get out of. When I test games I do so to contribute to the progression and development of the game, but the trade off is I can learn the game before others at launch. I don't feel like I have learned much at this point.

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This may not be what you want to hear but it is the real secret:

Spoiler

Best way to accomplish big goals in CF is to find some friends. Even if it's just for resource trades or a temporary group to capture a fort, you'll accomplish more (and faster) if you work with others.

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1 hour ago, miraluna said:

This may not be what you want to hear but it is the real secret:

  Reveal hidden contents

Best way to accomplish big goals in CF is to find some friends. Even if it's just for resource trades or a temporary group to capture a fort, you'll accomplish more (and faster) if you work with others.

Yes, find a guild that is active or get your friends to buy in and start one...  a blacksmith is going nowhere without a leatherworker and a constant supply of ore for one example.

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Just started yesterday, so I was wondering the same type thing about what to do in the game.  Yes, I understand the game is still under construction and there is a lot to come and or change over the course of time. 

But, like most people.  We get the game, download it, launch it and just head into it without the most basic of knowledge.  Well at least I do that :)

So day 1.  I made a Cleric, pretty basic.  Punched some trees till it fell.  Collected enough wood to build a axe. Found a gold apple and regular apple.  Collect some stone, built a hammer.  Repeat until I could build my first throwing hammer and shield.  Equip it and set out on my adventure.  So, like most games, you run out and kill mobs and hit level 2.  I think I ran around for 30 minutes, found 1 thing to kill.  Found empty chests, found someones grave. Ran around some more and all I could do was chop more trees, pound on more stones.  Recalled back to my starting place on accident, experimenting with buttons.  Thinking, I guess I need to do some research, cause I was one lost Cleric. 

 

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Welcome to crowfall. This is a very common experience at this stage of development, and ACE is well aware it has to be addressed.

You can find some videos in game by following the circled icon.

KmZla1o.jpg

 

Quotes on the new game experience issue from Todd. (First bold mine)

 

On 2/2/2018 at 9:48 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

This is not surprising, given that we haven't built a new player experience yet.

new player experience is typically the LAST thing that you work on, because it's heavily scripted and (as a result) incredibly fragile.  whenever you make a change to any system, any balance table, any user interface -- even moving a button -- the damn thing breaks.  because it's so custom crafted.

Doing it early in the development process, when everything is in flux, means that you spend an inordinate of time fixing it every. single. time. you put up a new version.

Better to just put it off until things are settled (i.e. do it last.)  It does mean that many (most?) incoming players have no clue how systems work, but that's the lesser of the two evils. Development velocity is paramount.

Todd

 

On 2/2/2018 at 3:14 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

I would love to quote this answer to the plethora of players that complain about the new player experience. 

Lord knows I've bitched enough about it, and it's importance, along the way.  I sometimes lose sight of the fact that there must be a time budget built in for systems needed to support that experience, and keep mentally trying to imagine how the current model can be adjusted to accommodate a more entertaining start.

So just how LAST is it?  Is it LAST right before Beta, or LAST right before initial launch?

 

On 2/5/2018 at 8:30 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

yes, you can quote it.

Last meaning "I will put it off as long as we can, to give the systems under it the maximum amount of time to solidify".  I wouldn't even be shocked if we put a draft version in at soft launch, then change it completely in the period between soft launch and hard launch (i.e. once we run enough players through it to get a statistical bead on how effective it is.)  

Todd

 

 

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Not sure why you would think I wouldn’t want to hear you need friends ina sandbox game. That being said playing the game solo to some extent should be viable even if it’s just working your EK and selling in vendors or sneaking around a campaign and selling off resource. 

 

But even if if I did have friends what would be different about my experience right now? Trade is still vastly limited by the spirit bank. I’d still be ethereal dust starved.  Sure maybe my experience would be different in a larger guild but if I entered into this game with five friends then I feel like we would all be stuck. 

I guess the best thing to do is just grind for days in my ek until I can build stuff there. 

 

Only issue sue I see with that is if the spirit bank system doesn’t change it doesn’t matter what you have in your EK you can only trade so much to your campaign before running out of export so you can’t support yourself that way. I guess maybe you can get a good head start that way. 

 

Is is there anyway to craft beyond basic in your campaign without access to forts? Can you drop crafting stations at the beach head fort? Even if they can get destroyed or stolen I’m curious if you can put them down there. I haven’t gathered enough dust to test it. 

 

It helps to know there is no new player experience. But everyone giving advice in this thread was in this position at some point and crawled out. 

 

All im asking is how you did it. Did you go straight to the campaign? Grind your EK? Farm tons of knotwood and sacrifice it? Go on a combat class and farm hogs? Go straight into pvp?

Edited by Kellindell

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5 hours ago, Kellindell said:

...

All im asking is how you did it. ....

I could explain my strategy for how to get awesome gear as quickly as possible.  But, well, the game is competitive and I'd rather have the advantage by keeping my mouth shut.  Maybe you should consider doing some 'science' and seeing what works and what doesn't work.  Study the skill trees.  Study the disciplines.  Read the forums.  Theorycraft a bit.  Many people here have been playing since pre-alpha began, and have been slowly amassing knowledge so that they can have an 'edge' when the game launches.

So you might get some details here, you might not.  You might even be led astray.  Generally, if you join guilds with experienced people they will guide you.

As for Ethereal Dusts you should be able to get them much much faster.  I could get 3 per minute without trying very hard.  You say you slotted the minor discipline, but did you slot the passive power that it grants?  If you really trained "all the skills that increase drop rates" Im impressed because there are like 30 of them spread out all over the place.  Your race will matter too, each race gets skills granting bonuses to certain activities.  Match oroper race up with proper activity.

You can put crafting tables in your EK if you have enough buildings/slots for them, and the dusts to make them.

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I'll give answering you a shot. The following are my opinions of course so others will most likely disagree.

Don't worry much about your EK at first.

Get into a campaign, do the punching trees and making basic tools thing. Then make your basic weapon.

Then ask if your faction owns any forts in the faction chat tab. If it does , ask for map co-ordinates (along the west and south side of the map are easy to see numbers and letters). If the faction doesn't have a fort, ask if you can help anyone take one. Hopefully if it is near the busy time of the day you'll get some help. Otherwise, now that guards have been activated, an armour-less new player won't be killing guards alone. See further advice below if you can't take/get to a fort.

Get to the fort if your faction has one, take it if they don't and you have help. Then go to the blacksmithing table, which is in the throne room of forts and look up intermediate armour and weapons. Write down what you'll need if you have to, some of the mats needed are from the leatherworking table across the room.

Now you know what you'll need your game play can consist of finding the nodes (scout the map, you'll find them), harvesting and returning to the fort to craft them. Store stuff at your beach head if you need or the chest behind the throne at the fort. If the fort gets taken you don't lose the stored things, you just can't access them from there until the keep is neutral I think or your faction has the keep. There is a chest at the beach head with a blue triangle that lets you retrieve things from remote chests though.

Play assassin or duelist so you can stealth if being in the world makes you too nervous at this stage and don't carry around things you aren't prepared to lose. Store stuff if you are a walking piñata.

If it is absolutely impossible for you to get to a blacksmithing table at a fort, then think about making one at your EK so you can look up the recipes and get prepared for when your faction does take a fort in the campaign, or mess around spending import and export points if you want.

TLDR:  make your way to a blacksmith table and making your intermediate set will guide your gameplay for a while at least, even days if you play casually. Once you have done the intermediate you'll probably understand better any googling you do about unlocking advanced recipes etc.

 

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10 hours ago, Kellindell said:

All im asking is how you did it. Did you go straight to the campaign? Grind your EK? Farm tons of knotwood and sacrifice it? Go on a combat class and farm hogs? Go straight into pvp?

1: Know your environment

This means exploring. Things are purposely not signposted for you and soon the map on every single campaign is going to be different. Those higher tier materials are out there. Those forts with nobody defending them are out there. Your basic weaponry might not win a fight in PvP, but its also quick and easy to craft so who cares if you lose it. Your EK is useless to you without the things you need to acquire in the campaign worlds, and is functionally more of a trophy room or tradepost than a place you're meant to spend much time in. Sure, you can use it to farm dust if you want, but that's about it.

2: Know yourself

Lets say you want to be a blacksmith. This means you have some early training choices to make (like setting your training to smithing) and you have some specific things you're looking for (like smithing benches and smithing materials) It also means you have some barriers specific to you (like players that want to keep your from those benches, and others competing for your resources) Your job is not to follow a set of signposts. Like any PvP sandbox your goal is to solve those problems with the tools available to you. All PvP is just an endless string of problems to be solved, whether by hook or by crook. Tools like stealth, misdirection, getting more friends, or exporting out full stacks. Consider what you're doing, not what other people are doing that gets in the way of you accomplishing this goal. If something doesn't go your way, first think to yourself "what could I have done that made that turn out better?" and then try that. All things are PvP. Competing over nodes, setting prices, and stabbing people are just different ways that other people are trying to make your life harder and their life easier. Be cheap. Be clever. Be ruthless. Your opponents will not cut you a break. Make your own.

3: You have multiple selves. Use them. Everyone else will be.

If you can't take a fort, can't win a fight, or can't harvest fast enough, examine why not. Is it that you don't have enough friends or is it that you're attempting to use your fast moving but squishy harvesting character to fight npc guard? Is there a way to use your other 5 character slots that would be better for the job you're doing right now? Is the character you use for scouting a good build for smithing? Is it a good build for taking a fort? Do you even need the fort?

4: The spirit bank is a tool, not a barrier.

Don't be afraid to burn import/export charges in the current system. Though it may change in the future, stop thinking of the bank as a bank. Think of it like a tool the same as your armor or weapons or pick. You don't leave your sword in your bank because you might use it up unless you don't need the sword, right? It might take some time, but you can replace the sword. Similarly, don't avoid using the spirit bank when you NEED to use it, but don't use it wastefully later. You will get more imports and exports, but the entire point of having them is for you to use them. Like any tool, you want to use it when its appropriate. If you don't have any gear and people with gear are cutting off access to a crafting station that sounds like an appropriate time to use that tool. Like any tool, you can always replace it. You wouldn't mine cobblestone with your +40 motherlode harvesting hammer. Don't use your spirit bank to export 2 rocks at a time. Use this tool intelligently and it will last you long enough to be replaced when the next campaign starts.

5: Live in the now.

Nothing you do is going to make your training go faster. You can either be angry that you can't mine r10 rocks and make a legendary sword OR you can focus on what you can do RIGHT NOW that can help you toward that goal. Can you identify the location of resources so you can get them later? Can you mine resources you can't use YET so you have stacks ready to go when you can? Can you gain some gold and trade a bit that might help you punch above your weight class? Can you Help reinforce a friendly fort so its a little safer tomorrow when your training lets you craft there? Can you help other players so that they're more likely to help you in the future? Don't try to live in the future. Passive training means you don't HAVE to do anything specific to get your further along on your skill plan. That means you are free to decide what part of the supporting systems other than skills you want to invest in right NOW.

6: Make friends, minions, masters, or business associates

You will never be self sufficient. Ever. You will need to interact with, directly or indirectly, at least 6 other players just to fill all your gear slots. You're going to be less efficient alone than in a group at any activity in the game alone. Figuring you what you want to do is important, but its more important to figure out who's going to do all the other stuff you need done. How you place yourself in the social strata is important. Use faction chat. Ask for help. Invite other players along to do your activities. Offer things for trade. Statistically speaking, the things you can do for YOURSELF are less impactful than what your social connections can do FOR you.

7: Remember that not everything can be wiped.

If you're looking at the current unfinished state of the game, and wondering "what's the point" remember that your social interactions and knowledge are intrinsic meta elements that will persist through every wipe. Don't get too attached to all of that transient stuff that's getting wiped anyway. Your goal now is to play around with no consequences, and be vocal if something seems wrong, whether its a bug or a design flaw. Think of playing in early access as skill training the person behind the keyboard, and the developers on the other side of the server.

8: If you're bored, stop.

The counterpoint to #7 - In a half finished game, you're going to get bored and it is going to feel pointless sometimes. You're not spending any money by not logging in, and you're here to have fun. If things get too boring, or you don't feel like there's any point to doing stuff because you heard there's a wipe around the corner, just take a break and play something else. If the game were good enough to capture your attention every day for the next year we wouldn't still be calling it pre-alpha.

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Both very good posts thank you. 

I played a ranger for stealth but it looks like they either don’t get it or don’t start with it?

good to know EK won’t help. 

 

What stands between you harvesting higher tier resources? Your too your level or both? Some other factor?

Can you drop a crafting table in your beachhead fort? Even if it’s at risk is it doable? Or in campaigns do you have to find a fort?

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In order to harvest higher tier resources efficiently you need a combination of better tools and training. Harvesting disciplines help as well. Harvesting with friends can also make harvesting higher tier resources easier to do when you don't have a great tool or training.

A noob with an amazing tool can knock down higher tier resources without training, and a fully trained harvester doesn't really need an amazing tool-- its overkill. Of course, just knocking them down isn't all that matters, you want high Plentiful Harvest stat for more output, and Critical Chance and Critical Amount for better output.

You can't place crafting tables in the beachhead, or anywhere else in the campaign at the moment. You have to find a fort or keep. That may change in the future, and may vary depending on campaign ruleset.

 

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Some good posts above. I’ve not been playing long, but have a couple of additions:

1. Put enough training into each skill so that you can see the recipes. Go up on Global or find someone on your server or in your faction who has been around for a while who can explain the crafting system, especially experimentation. It is not intuitively obvious.

2. Learn how to craft runetools, or spend some gold to buy them at an EK vendor. Browse the Kingdoms to find vendors. Right now, gold really seems to have only one other purpose, and that is to be sacrificed in your beachhead at one of the two firepits by the temple statue in order to level your vessel. It seems to me that the best source of other sacrifice items are those that drop from killing spiders found in the tunnels at the center of the map. Do an internet search for Jah’s Wrath Map. It’s a great resource.

3. Definitely empty your inventory before going off to pvp. You will die...a lot. I’ve found that there seems to be an unwritten code that if you die and get looted, most people will leave you your basic harvesting tools, if you have rune tools, you may not be so lucky.

4. Center of the map has higher grade resources. Unless you have upgraded your harvesting tools, higher grades are tougher to get. They take longer to harvest, so you remain exposed longer. With good tools, you can harvest up to grade 5 fairly easily as a low level vessel.

5. Think of your time as training and exploration time. Do you intend to be a pvp focused player, a crafter, a harvester, some combination? You will not be able to do it all with one account because the skill training time will preclude effective training in all the skills required to reach your goals in a given area. Right now, skills are training at a 10x rate. When it drops to 1x, things will change dramatically. So...try everything. Make different vessels so you can find ones you like to play, and whose strengths contribute to your chosen class and play goals. I think you will find that you don’t end up where you started; there are lots of potential combinations, and you will find that your initial assumptions about how you want to play evolve as you get more experience in the game.

6. The best advice is that which @PopeUrban gave: make friends, find folks with whom you like to play, and who have goals which are compatible with yours. You will need hunting partners if you want to pvp, crafting partners to provide items you can’t craft, and harvesting partners to take on motherloads. Right now, you can do a fair amount solo because the population is low and skill training speed allows you to diversify enough to actually harvest your own resources and make a lot of your own gear, but that won’t be the future.

Edited by Adrienne

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On 4/30/2018 at 4:55 AM, Brindylln said:

I could explain my strategy for how to get awesome gear as quickly as possible.  But, well, the game is competitive and I'd rather have the advantage by keeping my mouth shut.  Maybe you should consider doing some 'science' and seeing what works and what doesn't work.  Study the skill trees.  Study the disciplines.  Read the forums.  Theorycraft a bit.  Many people here have been playing since pre-alpha began, and have been slowly amassing knowledge so that they can have an 'edge' when the game launches.

I'm surprised by that kind of comment considering the state of the game. Damn, you just made the game so interesting to newcomers. In fact, you're saying that if they haven't been in pre alpha, the newbies are screwed because you know the game and they don't. Good for you. Your little secrets makes you the king of the hill, you can taunt and gloat on the battlefield alone. Competitive Alpha warrior :) Man you made my day.

So let's be clear, we're testing a game we already paid for and there's close to nothing to set how to concretely progress besides doing Theorycrafting and putting hours that has already been done by others.

Hopefully, some people are more helpful.

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20 minutes ago, Haniki said:

I'm surprised by that kind of comment considering the state of the game. Damn, you just made the game so interesting to newcomers. In fact, you're saying that if they haven't been in pre alpha, the newbies are screwed because you know the game and they don't.

The NPE is baaaaaaaaaaad and without a guild of people to hold your hand you will be woefully behind the veteran testers.  They haven't put much time or thought into yet, core systems missing so whats the point of fluff until the majority of the game is in the game?  If you wanna be a stubborn bastard and try to teach yourself go for it but without a group of people (we call them guilds) you are going to be custard yourself.  I suggest going to the recruitment thread and finding a group to play with.  Two of the factions have dominant guilds leading them and balance is just a hodgepodge of hold outs from a guild that collapsed in on itself from the weight of its weebs. 

This isn't a game you can play solo.  It's takes multiple crafting professions to make each piece of gear and every gathering/harvesting  proficiency touches every piece of gear you will use.  You need at least one of everything to make it work so unless your planning on being Tark you can't reasonably expect to do it all solo.

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