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Final Combine for Vessels is a winner!


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Wanted to say thanks to @thomasblair and team for their change to the final combine for Necro Vessel crafting. The feedback form many was 'how can a Necromancer better fine tune their output by more than just a Philosopher Solution' and the change has really opened up our choices. 

Eliminating Sheen and giving us access to a by the line adjustment by Pip usage (if we don't Flawed assembly) will now increase the dialog between crafter and customer 2X. @Gradishar does not need a Half-Elf Vessel he need a Half-Elf that pushed Dex as he is an Assassin and a Crafter both of which leverage that stat as a primary impact. @srathor does not need a half-giant vessel he needs a half-giant Vessel that pushes Strength as it will be his Black Smith Vessel, and if I can push the Crafting Basics on it then all the better.

great change 

 

 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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wanted to move up the change in image form

shifting from a 'sheen' to a targeted spend' ... no need to test to see the change in sheen versus targeted value ... as with this split I would think I should lift a targeted value far more with the same roll versus the sheen.  

yU7Inlu.png

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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1 hour ago, Anhrez said:

wanted to move up the change in image form

shifting from a 'sheen' to a targeted spend' ... no need to test to see the change in sheen versus targeted value ... as with this split I would think I should lift a targeted value far more with the same roll versus the sheen.  

yU7Inlu.png

Does it though? The percentages for a success, moderate success, good success, etc. will be the same regardless of the experimentation type. And what about all the non-attribute stats like HP, crafting basics exp., etc? I haven't made a vessel in a while, so I may be missing something, but this seems like a nerf rather than a buff.

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2 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Does it though? The percentages for a success, moderate success, good success, etc. will be the same regardless of the experimentation type. And what about all the non-attribute stats like HP, crafting basics exp., etc? I haven't made a vessel in a while, so I may be missing something, but this seems like a nerf rather than a buff.

I don't think the point is that it is a buff. The point is that there is more choice in what to experiment on. Most recipes have too few options to choose from when experimenting.

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2 hours ago, Jah said:

I don't think the point is that it is a buff. The point is that there is more choice in what to experiment on. Most recipes have too few options to choose from when experimenting.

I'm not really looking for it to be a buff. More options is always good. I'm just concerned that it is actually, in fact, a huge nerf to the total stats that a vessel will provide.

Looking at the screenshot Anrhez provided, we can no longer experiment on any stats other than Str, Dex, Int, Spi and Con. Sheen covered those stats plus any others that were added, like Basic Crafting Experimentation and HP. We can no longer raise those stats during the final combine.

Is there a different coefficient between the percentage of experimentation and the amount of stats gained? If experimenting sheen to 10% previously increased each stat by X, does experimenting strength to 10% increase the strength on the vessel by X * 5? Or is it still just X?

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My impression of sheen under the old system was that even a 7pip amazing on sheen was hardly noticeable in terms of effect on stats and attributes. I like this change...but would recommend that they add sheen back in as an expiremention line and have it only effect the non-attributes (ie crafting basics, chicken ticker, node damage modifier, etc)

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8 hours ago, Arkade said:

Does it though? The percentages for a success, moderate success, good success, etc. will be the same regardless of the experimentation type. And what about all the non-attribute stats like HP, crafting basics exp., etc? I haven't made a vessel in a while, so I may be missing something, but this seems like a nerf rather than a buff.

I have not been able to test enough to compare versus 5.4. if they nerf-ed I am still ok. I'd rather they take away a broad stroke and give me a targeted line to push. If the numbers are too low those we can make a case for but if it was still in a sheen format I think harder to make our point for a specific lift. 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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9 hours ago, Anhrez said:

I have not been able to test enough to compare versus 5.4. if they nerf-ed I am still ok. I'd rather they take away a broad stroke and give me a targeted line to push. If the numbers are too low those we can make a case for but if it was still in a sheen format I think harder to make our point for a specific lift. 

I've made like 7 vessels, but every one has failed on the final combine, so I can't test the experimentation. 

I did notice, however, that when experimenting on the body parts, I get higher than normal percentages for Success, Moderate Success, etc. Moderate Success normally gives 2.05%. When I get a Moderate on a body part, I'm getting 3 something. I think it's 50% higher. I rolled a good and a moderate on one and was over 12% total. 

Edit: I just realized that I'm getting the bonus for risking 50%. I only have 2 pips. 

Edited by Arkade
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On 5/5/2018 at 6:41 PM, Gradishar said:

My impression of sheen under the old system was that even a 7pip amazing on sheen was hardly noticeable in terms of effect on stats and attributes. I like this change...but would recommend that they add sheen back in as an expiremention line and have it only effect the non-attributes (ie crafting basics, chicken ticker, node damage modifier, etc)

This would be my preferred way to do it as well. Sheen for buffing additive stats or direct experimentation on the attributes combined with the hand crafted nature of vessels leaves a lot more room for iterative upgrade of vessels and a lot more "good but not an upgrade" rolls that should create a larger sales market for necromancers of various training levels and a more consistent long term trade value for additive parts.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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I think adding the Sheen option back would provide a win-win scenario where you can push the stats and/or you can add points into Sheen however you want to build it depending on what works best for the intended role of that vessel. Since we had it before should be a straight forward option to add it back in. Having the ability to modify stats outside the base character attributes would be nice.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've crafted a lot of vessels on test and the final combine experimentation seems fine, provided they add the sheen back so we can raise the additive stats.

There is still a huge problem though with the body parts. Some body parts only have 1 stat, which means there is only 1 line to experiment on. If the body part is green quality, we will be limited to 7 total pips. If I have 15 pips, I can't even get the 50% bonus once. I had 10 pips and was crafting legendary body parts. That worked out well because I could do 5 and 5. Now I'm up to 11 pips and my results are consistently worse.

Either all items should have a minimum of 15 experimentation slots, or the 50% bonus thing has to be reworked. Preferably the latter. 

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I see your point but would guess the design concept is that a Green quality Item has only so much potential to be lifted, it has less potential than a purple body part so it has less pips to be used to increase its overall value therefore limiting it max outcome .  I would rather see the 50% be dropped for some mechanic that allows less RNG into the effort to maximize the outcome .

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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2 hours ago, Anhrez said:

I see your point but would guess the design concept is that a Green quality Item has only so much potential to be lifted, it has less potential than a purple body part so it has less pips to be used to increase its overall value therefore limiting it max outcome .  I would rather see the 50% be dropped for some mechanic that allows less RNG into the effort to maximize the outcome .

It's not just green body parts. Legendary have 10 total slots. If I have 10 pips, I can do 5 and 5 and get the bonus twice. As soon as I hit 11 pips, I'm worse at crafting them. I can eventually get to 15 pips and spend 8, 1 and 1, but is that better than 5 and 5? I'm not sure.

The 50% bonus serves the purpose of providing risk/reward. If they get rid of it, they'll have to replace it with something else.

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3 hours ago, Arkade said:

It's not just green body parts. Legendary have 10 total slots. If I have 10 pips, I can do 5 and 5 and get the bonus twice. As soon as I hit 11 pips, I'm worse at crafting them. I can eventually get to 15 pips and spend 8, 1 and 1, but is that better than 5 and 5? I'm not sure.

The 50% bonus serves the purpose of providing risk/reward. If they get rid of it, they'll have to replace it with something else.

50% bonus should be reversed, so that it's based on the amount of points already spent and the gains from them, because you are "risking" the work you have already done by experimenting more.

The math works out much better in terms of value/odds, etc.  Would make it more like blackjack than slot machine. 

Got a post in a thread over here on the subject.

 

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