Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
MJayed

PvP Options Outside of CWs

Recommended Posts

This is a post soft-launch suggestion aimed to bolster gameplay outside of CW's and give more reasons to export high end gear. This should be added with commercial launch as it is primarily an end-game/superfluous addition. Currently, the only use for exporting high end gear, vessels, and disciplines is to use them in import campaigns(low value resource CW's) and to show them off occasionally in EK's.

If 1v1 and 6v6 arenas were added players could use their exported gear to either compete for a leaderboard position or have stress-free(no durability loss) PvP. Sometimes people will not have the time to roam in a CW to find a fight or want to have an even fight numbers-wise. These arenas can be queued into from an EK and will use the gear that the player has equipped. Also, to prevent new players from trolling/feeding participating in one full campaign could be required to join these arenas.

Some will try and say that player-made arenas will serve this function. I disagree. Player made arenas will require more time to organize, less convenient, and more player drama than instanced arenas. Players can still organize tournaments for prizes, which will give people a reason to participate in them.

In addition to arenas, add the hungerdome gamemode as another option for EK PvP. This game mode would be more even as players will start without gear. They would loot gear/disiciplines/vessels from chests. A simple K/D, total win, and win ratio leaderboard would be fun.

Adding arenas and a hungerdome game mode would be a fun addition to satiate the competitive PvP'er when CW's aren't, the person who wants some risk-free fights, and the person who wants some quick action in the limited time they have to play. Now the people who participate in 0 import campaigns have a reason to export PvP gear other than stomping noobs in import campaigns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, MJayed said:

If 1v1 and 6v6 arenas were added players could use their exported gear to either compete for a leaderboard position or have stress-free(no durability loss) PvP. Sometimes people will not have the time to roam in a CW to find a fight or want to have an even fight numbers-wise. These arenas can be queued into from an EK and will use the gear that the player has equipped. Also, to prevent new players from trolling/feeding participating in one full campaign could be required to join these arenas.

People have already organized arenas and tournaments in their EK's already, so I can't imagine the devs will feel to much of a need to duplicate that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

People have already organized arenas and tournaments in their EK's already, so I can't imagine the devs will feel to much of a need to duplicate that.

This is markedly different than what I am suggesting. Arenas/battledome is not a duplication of what goes on in EK's. There are many differences:

  • Battledome instances being recreated after each round completion cannot be duplicated in EKs.
  • Instanced/automated arenas are up 24/7 while EK's may not be
  • EK arenas won't be able to allow large amounts of players to fight without waiting long periods of time
    • Ex: 100+ people want to fight 1v1s....not enough arena
  • Leaderboards are not maintainable if people want to fight many times a day

This list can go on and on. EK arenas are fine for ORGANIZED tournaments, scrims, and pvp practice. They do not accomplish what arenas/battledome would.

edit: This does not have to be a feature for soft-launch, but should be a feature for commercial launch.

Edited by MJayed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crowfall isn't balanced around 1vs1 or even 6vs6. Most of the systems in the game are designed around large scale engagements, and an arena system would plague Crowfalls large scale pvp balance. The whole point of Crowfall is large scale engagements, and an arena system would undermine the entire point of the game.

Edited by Zatch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Crowfall isn't balanced around 1vs1 or even 6vs6. Most of the systems in the game are designed around large scale engagements, and an arena system would plague Crowfalls large scale pvp balance.

They don't have to balance around these and shouldn't. MMO's are rarely balanced around this scale of combat anyway. This game is unique as gear and hard counter disciplines will affect these arena fights greatly, so picking certain classes aren't auto wins. The arena will be balanced (not an open field so ranged can easily win etc.) and the cost of losing non-existent.

I view it as a fun alternative to CW's and something to make players strive to export the best materials from the hardest campaigns. If you do not want to fight in arenas you do not have to. Stick to CW fights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 It's one thing if ACE could wave a magic wand and the system would be in it. It's another if the system takes actual development time away from adding more systems to influence the core of the game. I'ld rather have development time on adding more disciplines, racial abilities, etc over an arena system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Zatch said:

 It's one thing if ACE could wave a magic wand and the system would be in it. It's another if the system takes actual development time away from adding more systems to influence the core of the game. I'ld rather have development time on adding more disciplines, racial abilities, etc over an arena system.

I agree that it shouldn't be a focus before soft-launch, but after a campaign or two I think it will add a lot to the game. It gives the players who have already completed a campaign another reason to join a new CW outside of the will to win and world pvp.

Overall, I think it will placate the guys who just want to PvP. PvP may not always be possible to jump right into and this will be a turn off for people who don't have a few hours to play. Also, not everyone will play this game to win a CW. Many will play to just kill people and arenas gives them another option. (They will definitely still want to win, so they can get more gear)

For the development time: They should have the base tech for hungerdome already and adding instanced areans on top of that tech shouldn't be too difficult.

Edited by MJayed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Others way before me  and myself (I'm still kinda new) also suggested this. I still dont understand why people are opposed to this. I personally dont think you would lose players from CW's but instead attract and retain more people into the game itself.

  Hardcore PvPers that want to continuously fight other PvPers (not harvesters) may get bored and leave if they have to constantly roam  to find PvP. Having an official arena with queue system and leaderboards  that's up 24/7 will retain this type of player. EK pvp would still be a thing regardless.  

The "Constant arena PvPer" would need to play in the campaigns anyway to harvest materials. They could even form alliances with crafting guilds to be the muscle when needed between their arena fights. Let the Gladiators be Gladiators.

 Playing Arenas non stop is not personally my play style but certain things that wont have a major impact on the original game concept should be considered to appeal to a broader range of players. 

Edited by Hunt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hunt said:

Others way before me  and myself (I'm still kinda new) also suggested this. I still dont understand why people are opposed to this. I personally dont think you would lose players from CW's but instead attract and retain more people into the game itself.

  Hardcore PvPers that want to continuously fight other PvPers (not harvesters) may get bored and leave if they have to constantly roam  to find PvP. Having an official arena with queue system and leaderboards  that's up 24/7 will retain this type of player. EK pvp would still be a thing regardless.  

The "Constant arena PvPer" would need to play in the campaigns anyway to harvest materials. They could even form alliances with crafting guilds to be the muscle when needed between their arena fights. Let the Gladiators be Gladiators.

 Playing Arenas non stop is not personally my play style but certain things that wont have a major impact on the original game concept should be considered to appeal to a broader range of players. 

Yep, I think arenas will help with the longevity of this game. The whole "oh but you can fight in EK's" isn't an argument. IDK why people can't see the huge difference.

Roaming for PvP can be a huge turn off to some people and arenas will give an alternative to that. After a few play sessions of having to roam for an hour to only get a few quick fights players may drop the game for something else. If they have arenas to hop into if they don't have the time to roam or they just don't want to participate in CW PvP they aren't out of luck.

For those who are concerned about arenas destroying world PvP, I agree that this is unfounded. If your guild destroys a group and they quit to play arenas...well that is better than them just logging off completely. This is also better than that group quitting the game. The arena only guys wouldn't play this game to begin with, so attracting a new demographic of players is a positive. Not to mention these guys will grind campaigns to get end-game gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Hunt said:

  Hardcore PvPers that want to continuously fight other PvPers (not harvesters) may get bored and leave if they have to constantly roam  to find PvP. Having an official arena with queue system and leaderboards  that's up 24/7 will retain this type of player. EK pvp would still be a thing regardless.  

If that ends up the case, arenas will not save this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

If that ends up the case, arenas will not save this game.

 I was trying to say there could be parts of this game that can appeal to multiple playstyles. Some people like doing non stop arenas.... that doesnt mean that will be the only thing to keep this game alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hunt said:

 I was trying to say there could be parts of this game that can appeal to multiple playstyles. Some people like doing non stop arenas.... that doesnt mean that will be the only thing to keep this game alive.

They might like that in games like WoW where combat ability, gear, exp, etc. are all normalized for PvP.

I'm sure there will be arenas and stuff in CF, but I doubt it will be super popular unless the devs add a way for people to be restricted in the quality of gear and vessels they can use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Hunt said:

 I was trying to say there could be parts of this game that can appeal to multiple playstyles. Some people like doing non stop arenas.... that doesnt mean that will be the only thing to keep this game alive.

Well one of the best parts of dying world is that campaigns are configurable. 

This configuration is not a launch goal, but there it probably no reason the can't add it later. I know there have been quite a few very interesting models proposed.

Quote

HOW OPEN ARE YOU GUYS TO TRYING NEW IDEAS WITHIN CAMPAIGNS?

Our intention is to make this a community-driven process. We’ll take the best ideas we find, wherever they come from, and give them a shot.

If an idea gains enough traction and fits within the architecture, we’ll try it.

You want to try a world without magic? Cool.
You want to try a world where we introduce cannons as a siege weapon? Sounds interesting.
You want to try a world where each character only has one life – meaning that if you die once, you are permanently banned from the World? Sure, let’s do it.

That’s the cool thing about this approach: we’re turning our community into a massive, game-designing hivemind.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you aren't interested in a dynamic open world pvp MMO why are you playing this game? Crowfall at its roots is cemented on a deeper social system compared to any forty-five minute match lobby game Crowfall fundamentally functions as a war where resources matter, territory control is king, and relationships govern the ebb and flow of the game. An arena system undermines the entire concept for what Crowfall is about. Arenas circumvent the basic reasons why Crowfall works, and will be a bane on the game if created.

Edited by Zatch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2018 at 12:01 PM, MJayed said:

This is a post soft-launch suggestion aimed to bolster gameplay outside of CW's and give more reasons to export high end gear. 

The 3 and 13 faction World Rings will have greater flexibility in import rules. A simplistic cycle could look like this:

Shadow/Dregs Export High-end resources > EK Craft & Sell them > Players import them to GR/Infested > Items are lost/broken/looted/stolen > etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Zatch said:

If you aren't interested in a dynamic open world pvp MMO why are you playing this game? Crowfall at its roots is cemented on a deeper social system compared to any forty-five minute match lobby game Crowfall fundamentally functions as a war where resources matter, territory control is king, and relationships govern the ebb and flow of the game. An arena system undermines the entire concept for what Crowfall is about. Arenas circumvent the basic reasons why Crowfall works, and will be a bane on the game if created.

Obviously, I have no issue with world PvP or I wouldn't be playing right now. Also, I have no problem killing players as an unguilded/solo guy who teams with random faction players. My group and I will join a guild before release and play the game as it was designed.

That being said, come late game do you want the only use for your guild's hard-earned legendary gear that you used to win a campaign to be used to noob stomp people in lower rank CW's? That would be fun for a little, but would grow old. Also, one guild importing their OP gear from a dregs CW would destroy any real sense of the strategy that you harped on in those campaigns.

I am up for having arenas without leaderboards/rankings. Just give people with great gear an alternative to noob stomping.

6 hours ago, Keaggan said:

The 3 and 13 faction World Rings will have greater flexibility in import rules. A simplistic cycle could look like this:

Shadow/Dregs Export High-end resources > EK Craft & Sell them > Players import them to GR/Infested > Items are lost/broken/looted/stolen > etc

I understand that. Do you accept that guilds from dregs/etc will import top tier gear just to demolish everyone on the CW they choose? I suspect that guilds would re roll into other CW's leaving them mostly empty. For the end-game guy importing gear, noob stomping is fun, but it does get old. Getting stomped by people importing gear for a CW you never plan on participating in is never fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DocHollidaze said:

They might like that in games like WoW where combat ability, gear, exp, etc. are all normalized for PvP.

I'm sure there will be arenas and stuff in CF, but I doubt it will be super popular unless the devs add a way for people to be restricted in the quality of gear and vessels they can use.

Ya normalizing gear is an option, but imo isn't necessary. Depends on what the devs/community wants from arenas.

I think making CW winners the real winners is they way to go. Games like Archeage had a fun arena system (pre-55) despite no limitations on gear(p2w) or leaderboards. I think crowfall's end game can benefit from something like that outside of the game. It will also drive more players to play the hardcore dregs CW's.

Edited by MJayed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MJayed said:

Obviously, I have no issue with world PvP or I wouldn't be playing right now. Also, I have no problem killing players as an unguilded/solo guy who teams with random faction players. My group and I will join a guild before release and play the game as it was designed.

That being said, come late game do you want the only use for your guild's hard-earned legendary gear that you used to win a campaign to be used to noob stomp people in lower rank CW's? That would be fun for a little, but would grow old. Also, one guild importing their OP gear from a dregs CW would destroy any real sense of the strategy that you harped on in those campaigns.

I am up for having arenas without leaderboards/rankings. Just give people with great gear an alternative to noob stomping.

I understand that. Do you accept that guilds from dregs/etc will import top tier gear just to demolish everyone on the CW they choose? I suspect that guilds would re roll into other CW's leaving them mostly empty. For the end-game guy importing gear, noob stomping is fun, but it does get old. Getting stomped by people importing gear for a CW you never plan on participating in is never fun.

No dregs guilds will be joining three faction servers to "stomp noobs"; it isn't fun. As for rewards for all I care the reward for winning a campaign could be Todd saying winner on a thirty second loop. For me the game is about the player conflict, and gear is a tool to drive that.

 In the end,  I would much rather have all players in one game type over devs wasting their time developing a system that fundamentally goes against the initial design for the game. If players want to do it that's one thing, but the devs need to spend their time making content that matters for the fundation of what Crowfall is. 

Edited by Zatch
Cat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Zatch said:

No dregs guilds will be joining three faction servers to "stomp noobs"; it isn't fun. As for rewards for all I care the reward for winning a campaign could be Todd saying winner on a thirty second loop. For me the game is about the player conflict, and gear is a tool to drive that.

 In the end,  I would much rather have all players in one game type over devs wasting their time developing a system that fundamentally goes against the initial design for the game. If players want to do it that's one thing, but the devs need to spend their time making content that matters for the fundation of what Crowfall is. 

Are you nut's? It's hella fun. I admit I find it fun, though I don't do it often.  Haven't you ever heard of smurfing? 

They have a whole colloquialism for the idea of players deliberately engaging lesser skilled players for fun,  just to curb stomp them. People even buy accounts dedicated to nothing but that.

Not fun, won't join.  You assume way too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Are you nut's? It's hella fun. I admit I find it fun, though I don't do it often.  Haven't you ever heard of smurfing? 

They have a whole colloquialism for the idea of players deliberately engaging lesser skilled players for fun,  just to curb stomp them. People even buy accounts dedicated to nothing but that.

Not fun, won't join.  You assume way too much.

If the current test environment is any indicator people will not log in to stomp new/low gear players. I think you fail to take into account the difference between a forty-five minute match and a three month long campaign. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...