Jastorin

A Crow that can only fly three feet off the ground

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Posted (edited)

What is the reasoning/lore behind not being able to fly back to your body in crow form, only being three feet off the ground while appearing to be flying and needing to navigate around or double jump up hills or mountains? Your a bird of flight.

I would be down for some lore about flying low to avoid detection and the wraith of the gods the other factions are fighting for or something......

Edited by Jastorin

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Just now, DocHollidaze said:

I don't think it is actually a bird, just looks like one.

It looks like a crow it flaps its wings it isn’t touching the ground( I know I have checked every angle to see where those pesky footsteps are coming from). We are fallen warriors come back to fight for the gods in their eternal struggle for power and the right to rule over the other gods as spirit crows that have the ability to enter vessels and wage war in their names are we not? 

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This pry is a question only the devs can answer. I was asked it in my stream and couldn’t answer so I thought maybe there was some lore that was mentioned about it somewhere.

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19 hours ago, Frykka said:

Yes, Support for crows flying above basic hill levels with no terrain restrictions and at bird speed...   been mentioned a lot.

May I asked where it was mentioned for reference? I tried searching but do not have access to all forums at my backer level.

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5 minutes ago, Jastorin said:

May I asked where it was mentioned for reference? I tried searching but do not have access to all forums at my backer level.

I think he means its been mentioned by players a lot.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks everyone that responded. Hopefully we will hear something in the future. To me it’s not a big deal but I have been in party’s with people that died that raged hard about it and viewers that asked about it. I am just happy about all the incoming content but still like to do my research and answer as many questions as I can. Thanks again guys or girls.

Edited by Jastorin

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Posted (edited)

what would people think if they implemented the fae tech to glide/feather fall while in crow form? [and add a rmb dash too hah!]

Edited by Tinnis

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3 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

what would people think if they implemented the fae tech to glide/feather fall while in crow form? [and add a rmb dash too hah!]

Hard to imagine any reason why crows shouldn't be able to glide at minimum. I think they should be able to fly even better than Fae, to be honest.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Jastorin said:

May I asked where it was mentioned for reference? I tried searching but do not have access to all forums at my backer level.

Yea that's why you're missing it.  There is a two page thread in developers that talks about it, and gets some response from Todd.

Lots' of musings and back and forth, but no conclusion because it's harder than it seems.  The gist of it is that crow form is 

Quote

[KrakkenSmacken] I'm guessing that crows don't have any skills applied, and that when you get a vessel it does the race/class/profession applications at that time.

 

Ended with a "I'll keep it in mind". 

  

 

Personally think it might be worth revisiting now, if crows could get by default a version of the double jump, but didn't have the two tap limit, and the same glide as the Fae.

Might be a trick to have that ability not leak into vessels though.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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its a representation of a 'soul' ... the form is a crow. It has no attacks, no special powers, etc its only impacted by navigational controls (including jump)  why waste time and possible inclusion of bugs, etc on a run back form? 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Anhrez said:

its a representation of a 'soul' ... the form is a crow. It has no attacks, no special powers, etc its only impacted by navigational controls (including jump)  why waste time and possible inclusion of bugs, etc on a run back form? 

So it doesn't look and feel bad.

Edited by Jah

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Jah said:

Hard to imagine any reason why crows shouldn't be able to glide at minimum. I think they should be able to fly even better than Fae, to be honest.

e.g. fae tech, but crank up crow's jump(s) to give it the capacity to get some decent air :)

p.s. crow form needs <recall> for /stuck purposes so bad as well...

Edited by Tinnis

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3 minutes ago, Anhrez said:

its a representation of a 'soul' ... the form is a crow. It has no attacks, no special powers, etc its only impacted by navigational controls (including jump)  why waste time and possible inclusion of bugs, etc on a run back form? 

This is my thoughts as well just wanted to see if it had been talked about. This info will be useful next time I am asked and the point you just made will follow it. I enjoy your content for crowfall as well.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Jastorin said:

What is the reasoning/lore behind not being able to fly back to your body in crow form, only being three feet off the ground while appearing to be flying and needing to navigate around or double jump up hills or mountains? Your a bird of flight.

So many answers already. Please excuse that I'll add my opinion to the whirling pot of thoughts, too. ;)  

As for the lore, there is no lore provided about the gliding/flying of Crows in their bodiless crow-form yet. If you need one for RP reasons, you could say that we Crows (=souls) are bound to the gods will (we scavenge the worlds for them) - and that we are bound to the worlds they send us (we can not really freely leave worlds, we are bound to the campaign). This is why our souls are drawn back to the gods temple when our bodies get destroyed - and why our souls can't leave the earth before we did our duty (or until we use their holy moon-gates to bind our soul to another world).

As for the reasoning, ACE said multiple times that dying is meant to hurt. And that they want to limit the possibilities of secure scouting while in crow-mode (too much gain for too less risk). Of course players can say that having to fly back to the body is annoying and unconvinient. Sure. It would be more easy to click a button after death, immediately respawning where you died. And getting 20 legendary resources for one hit on a resource node, or having endless hitpoints is more convinient, too. Is it within the spirit of the game? I strongly doubt it. To fail has to hurt and to be unconvinient. The crow-form only gliding could be called one of the methods to get this. But in my opinion ... the opportunity to glide freely ... thats already a big deal.

Of course things still have to be balanced. Balancing is mostly late alpha and beta stuff. The movement in crow-form is too slow and the jumping is just ugly. Both will surely be taken care of. By the way, the movement has already increased in the new 5.6 and feels a lot better now. The rest, we will see.

So in my opinion, everything is ok and on the right way. But, again of course, we still have to test it all and to always give our feedback, to help ACE making the best game possible. So i would like to encourage people to understand/remember, that convinience may always be what we want ... but is not always what we need (and that we nevertheless have to complain about things we dont like). ;)

With this said, have fun ... and good luck :)

Kraahk

Edited by Kraahk

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I am not saying I will be upset if they make traveling back to your corpse feel better. They have said they would make improvements when they first implemented it. I appreciate someone with access to the dev forums responding so I could be informed of what has been said to date. I would rather it happens later than sooner though as I am more interested in the new content they are adding than quality of life at the moment.

 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Jastorin said:

I am not saying I will be upset if they make traveling back to your corpse feel better. They have said they would make improvements when they first implemented it. I appreciate someone with access to the dev forums responding so I could be informed of what has been said to date. I would rather it happens later than sooner though as I am more interested in the new content they are adding than quality of life at the moment.

 

We talked about quite a bit.  I feel fine dragging my own comments/thoughts and anonymizing/paraphrasing things a bit. 

Current jump is less than ideal.

Suggested a short range teleport like the druid.

Right click to move faster but be mostly blind was talked about. (Scouting issue)

We talked about magneting the crow to the body, so that when you went to recover your body you would accelerate as you traveled towards it.  Faster travel, but almost no control. That one got a bit of traction.

Talked about how fast was too fast. Mounts and such and their future speed was brought up.

I asked why we even care about the scouting issue?  I suggested that crow's disembodied state as a spy could even be recognized with it's own training line and an expected and accepted part of gameplay, with powers to detect and rid an area (banish back to temple) of disembodied crows. That is where the issue of "crows are the base" form and the complexity of trying to apply things like skills to that state came up.

Quote

I am not an explorer player type, so I can't speak for them, but I suspect it may be worth it long run for people like that.  Just think of the strategy it would add to the game from the point of view of scouting. There could be a whole player type that simply flies around the battlefields, scouting enemy movements, numbers, placements, and such in crow form.

That's a pretty good summary of what was talked about.

Hope this helps

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Posted (edited)

I like the line of Krakken's thinking about expanding the Crow functionality. Traveling faster directionally towards the body is an idea I like a lot, some kind of "flap" or other flavourful speedboost (perhaps doubling as a height increase) also seems like a winner. It's a shame I can't read any of the (I imagine) interesting discussions that happen in the partner forum. It seems more than a little ridiculous at this point considering the tiny size of the playerbase. I wonder if the people with that entitlement wouldn't almost unanimously agree that it's counterproductive to gatekeep discussion when the community is in a state of severe inactivity due to pre-alpha.

 

 

Anyway, since it's technically what we're playing as, making the crow more interactive can really help sell the whole "crows & vessels" thing and Crowfall as a universe more generally. Few quick thoughts on the crow:

1) In the inevitable final form of the NPE, the first time a player spawns into the world should be as a crow, as tempting as it might be to put them right into a more "traditional" vessel experience right away - maybe a nearby dead body that they're directed to fly towards and then possess after a brief period of introduction as a crow. Hell, maybe "their own" dead body from before they became a crow. Familiarizes them with the corpse retrieval process right away, and good lore flavour.

2) This one's actually already a thing, which is the crow spirit flying up and out of the body as part of the death animation, but I was thinking about how neat this one would be ages ago. Good job.

3) A power that renders you briefly corporeal as a living but still semi-spirity looking crow, and visible to players. This to me would the equivalent of pressing "TAB" in UO to show yourself as a ghost and troll people by going "OOooOoOOoO". Except instead of OOOing at them, your text would be rendered as a bunch of cawing noises (and text). A companion to this would of course be an exploration node that lets you understand the cawing, for those of us who eagerly screenshot precious rage tells and hackusations.

It would actually be hilarious to have a flavour discipline (or node?) that allows you to briefly manifest as this corporeal crow after being killed, before being sent to the temple as normal, so you can rage caw at the people that just killed you - and maybe have 30s of being able to shot call for any living friends?  Or just watch your friends get rolled, which can also be pretty fun.

3b) As a logical extension of this one, it could be interesting to have the landscape littered with Crowfall's version of "Weirwoodesque" (game of thrones/asoiaf) trees that crows could land on to be able to see and speak to (caw at) players. They could double as the tree motherlodes, actually. You might want to cut down the ones around your keeps to avoid spying. And noise. Impractical because spying will be done by embedded players, if at all - but embracing the fantasy/lore in this way is important to making a game feel like a world, I think, developer resources notwithstanding.

4) This one is absolutely idioticbut it's too funny not to suggest - allowing crows to possess mounts. Pop into your friend's horse and gain a power tray to boost him out of danger or maybe super-jump, or pop into an enemy's mount and try to screw him over somehow - maybe he has to mash a button to dislodge you from his horse's mind, and it's slowed until then or you can turn in ways he doesn't want you to.

Could get really silly, and really, really bad if it actually incentivizes a person in your group to go around as a crow to screw over enemy's mounts, which nobody would ever want to be forced to do - I think people might actually prefer to play as a character, not as a living movespeed malus. The "buff friend's mount" thing is a lot safer, much harder to lead to unhealthy gameplay. EDIT - wait, no it isn't, because everyone would then need an alt to permanently possess their own mounts to get around faster! I knew this was a stupid idea. No regrets! Mount possession forever!

 

 

 

 

Edited by Effeh

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