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Zatch

Leather vs Plate

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Posted (edited)

Currently in the game the trade off between leather/mail/plate is almost non existent. With all the mitigation being on the chest piece, I can currently get the entire benefit of mail/plate while sacrificing only 2.5/5% healing/damage modifier and one/two discipline slots. I was under the impression the health values on plate armor would be inherently higher, but I haven't seen that in game.

Is there any other benefits to lower armor types besides the ones described above? 

Edited by Zatch

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Ratio of your experiment change a lot, while you craft leather armor, your success in increasing stats depends on the skill you've learned and your leatherworking stats, but if you add your experiment point and get success in damage they'll have a greater ratio of increasng than health,  whereas for plate, there is a better ratio on defense. Don't forget to add great stats additive to your recipes while craft to increase more the stats, in defense or attack.

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I realize the mitigation stats are higher on plate chest piece, but there is no benefit to using plate hands, feet and helm currently as the final damage/heal modifier is significantly better on leather. Do these pieces inherently have a higher health total on them regardless of experimentation success to compensate for the damage/heal modifier? 

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As far as I can tell the biggest benefit from wearing all one type comes from your skill. what you have trained in the combat tree. Your class and what armor type it gives benefits to or what disciplines you plan to use(uniform, matching x where x=armor type). If you have higher skills for leather armor in the combat tree it will be better for you when equipped than ones you have no training in.

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5 minutes ago, Jastorin said:

As far as I can tell the biggest benefit from wearing all one type comes from your skill. what you have trained in the combat tree. Your class and what armor type it gives benefits to or what disciplines you plan to use(uniform, matching x where x=armor type). If you have higher skills for leather armor in the combat tree it will be better for you when equipped than ones you have no training in.

You don't need to wear a full set to benefit from that skill training. It only checks the chest slot.

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8 minutes ago, Jah said:

You don't need to wear a full set to benefit from that skill training. It only checks the chest slot.

 I worded it wrong the disciplines when used for wearing a full set is the main reason to wear all one type. Skills would dictate which chest piece you wore. 

Edited by Jastorin

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The other thing I was getting at is while the armor may say x stat what your actual stats say in info tab my be different as your skills will apply there I believe. So when you are comparing which chest to wear and your skills are in plate just because the other piece of armor is better in this stat or that in your bag doesn’t mean that once your skills are applied with the plate chest equipped it won’t give you more stats or benefits else where. 

Edited by Jastorin

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I would not take into account skills affecting your armor directly, even with the disciplines wearing the plate chest and either mail or leather for the remaining pieces is the best way to maximize your character.

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Let’s say you usually play assassin or ranger but decide to play human Templar. Your skills are in leather so you would benefit more from a leather chest. You want your heals to be good so you get the minor from the spider queen to increase your support power. Then you get the uniform and matching leather to increase your heals on two fronts from attack power and support power. In this case all leather would be what you wanted. If your skills were in mail then all mail or plate then all plate and once you were up in the chivalry tree you would get the added plate skill from there for your armor to suffer less decay. This is the best example I can come up with hope it helps.

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12 minutes ago, ZeFx said:

I would not take into account skills affecting your armor directly, even with the disciplines wearing the plate chest and either mail or leather for the remaining pieces is the best way to maximize your character.

I am not sure the disciplines that give attack and support power work with multiple types equipped if so they need to change the wording.

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You're talking about the uniform discs, unfortunately the boost you get isn't all that great. That isn't to say that some classes shouldn't use it but in my mind a 100 AP isn't that big of a jump if I can get additional damage and healing bonus from using a mix of armor types.

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1 minute ago, Jastorin said:

Let’s say you usually play assassin or ranger but decide to play human Templar. Your skills are in leather so you would benefit more from a leather chest. You want your heals to be good so you get the minor from the spider queen to increase your support power. Then you get the uniform and matching leather to increase your heals on two fronts from attack power and support power. In this case all leather would be what you wanted. If your skills were in mail then all mail or plate then all plate and once you were up in the chivalry tree you would get the added plate skill from there for your armor to suffer less decay. This is the best example I can come up with hope it helps.

Even if you usually play Assassin or Ranger, you are still  better off training Plate and using Plate in your chest slot.

Plate Chest + Leather arms/legs/head is better than any other option. Uniform and Matching do not provide enough benefit to change that.

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7 minutes ago, Jah said:

Even if you usually play Assassin or Ranger, you are still  better off training Plate and using Plate in your chest slot.

Plate Chest + Leather arms/legs/head is better than any other option. Uniform and Matching do not provide enough benefit to change that.

So those disciplines are just bad then is what your saying. Seems odd to have them if they aren’t worth taking are they planning to buff or remove them?

Edited by Jastorin

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Guess it depends on if you can give up the minor disc slot(s) or not. 

Take the minor discipline sturdy for example which gives 33% mitigation when above 80% hitpoints. That's essentially a 6.6% mitigation bonus, on average, over the course of a fight. That's at least in the ballpark of the extra mitigation you would get by using mail proficiency discipline and upgrading from leather to mail. 

As far as the non-chest slot armor goes, plate was supposed to be 500 hitpoints base and no dmg/heal bonus, Mail 250 hitpoints and 2.5% dmg/heal bonus, leather no hitpoints with 5% dmg / heal bonus. ACE essentially factored the dmg/heal bonus (base) at 100 points per 1%. Granted you can experiment on these pieces so it could end up being more than 100 hitpoints but you can't experiment on the dmg/heal modifier. 

This is how I understand it but I haven't done a whole lot of crafting since 5.4. 

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1 hour ago, Jastorin said:

So those disciplines are just bad then is what your saying. Seems odd to have them if they aren’t worth taking are they planning to buff or remove them?

Those disciplines, and the armor extremity armor pieces, have to be better than a 15% damage increase as well as, compensate for the loss of a passive slot;  currently that is no where near the case. Right now you are better off training mail or plate, and upgrading your base armor while wearing leather extremities. Plate and mail extremities need some compensation to offset the power that leather extremities have. 

Edited by Zatch
Extremities

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14 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Those disciplines, and the armor extremity armor pieces, have to be better than a 15% damage increase as well as, compensate for the loss of a passive slot;  currently that is no where near the case. Right now you are better off training mail or plate, and upgrading your base armor while wearing leather extremities. Plate and mail extremities need some compensation to offset the power that leather extremities have. 

You can get some pretty high hitpoint values on plate with good experimentation. Since you can't experiment on the damage modifier the hitpoints will become better and better as crafting skill, materials and blueprint/factories come online.

With low end materials and training it is a lot easier to just use leather off pieces. It's certainly an easier route to go which is why I normally use leather off pieces. But it may be too early to say that the mail/plate need to be buffed. 

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Also worth noting that damage and healing modifier cap at 40% (IIRC). With high end vessels, training, weapons, armor, etc. you may find that you hit the cap and don't need the bonus from leather. There is no cap on +hitpoints that I'm aware of. Food for thought. 

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