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Padishah

Good news, please consider what killed Shadowbane

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I feel like I'm totally disconnected when people make comments like this.  It's not that I dont understand the problems that you're talking about, but when you relate these items to what "killed" Shadowbane I'm a bit confused, because none of these things were issues until after like....what....2006....2007?  What's your definition of "dead"?

Har har, we all be confused wit t' points he be bringin' up.

 

[The main issues that contributed to initial decreases in population were sb.exe, 56k modems running a game with hundreds of people on the screen at once (hurray future! this one's solved!), and mass amounts of hacking.  I can still remember our first Sacrifice guild 1v1 tournament and a Mino Warrior sitting down (should take 2x damage) to regen his stamina while losing 0 hp.  Other people used wall hacks to cast spells through walls during banes destroying the enemies with no effort.  Etc, etc.

 

I'm glad J Todd Coleman is in charge of this project and has had the experiences of Shadowbane.  Here's to hoping for great success with Crowfall :) ]

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As the person who probably worked on Shadowbane the longest (omg, did I really work on it from 2000 - 2008?!), there are a lot of great things Shadowbane proved... and a lot of hard lessons learned from it. I will say that some of what is listed above isn't the problem, its the symptoms from some of the core problems. For example, one of the biggest issues was that a guild could work for days, weeks, and months to build a city... and lose it overnight (and there was a time when they could lose it when none of them were online... 3am Banes ftw!). And not only would they lose the city, they'd have no place to go because they were too high level for the freeholds.

 

That is just one example of many. So in many cases, it isn't "not doing X", it's learning why X was a problem and finding the real issue and addressing that.


Sean aka Ashen Temper | http://www.seandahlberg.com/

Without the Player, there is no Game!

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Hey, hey, hey, let's be nice... believe me, the run speed nerf was needed... it really was!!! ((waits to hear all about the things Ashen screwed up when he became Lead Designer))

 

Ashen Temper... Long time sir! Hope all is well. 

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Ultimately, I think bigger and better funded games stole a huge amount of players. The market got saturated with a quickness and Shadowbane was more of a 2nd gen game when the 3rd gen games were being produced. Very soon after that, producers realized they could make a poorly made socks ton of money from games like this and the flood gates opened.

 

Shadowbane wasn't/isn't a bad game, it just got outpaced by titles from the likes of LucasArts, SOA and Blizzard. Obviously Wolfpack/Ubi now had to fight against some serious heavyweights to keep subscription numbers up (and it doesn't seem like Ubisoft gave a poorly made socks about anything besides Rainbow Six and other garbage games at the time). Once the dream was over and the game went free-to-play, that's when all the retardness happened. I'm not saying retardedness on WP or SBG's part, just that there was no accountability for hacking, exploiting etc when unlimited accounts are available at no cost to everyone who can create a free email account.

 

Ultimately, it was an awesome game surround by flashy competitors. It was the early days of mmo popularity and it was going up against WoW, DAoC, Guild Wars, SWG, Everquest 2, Lineage 2, Planetside, Second Life, Eve etc.  Having so many choices will certainly "streamline" subscribership and hit you right in the ca$h.... And it's all dollars and cents to a douchecorporation like Ubisoft.

 

I dunno, maybe I'm just sober and not making any sense...

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This is a interesting topic that Ive thought about in the past and for me there are a couple of reasons that stand out as to why Shadowbane eventually failed.

 

1. It was ahead of its time. The idea behind Shadowbane was awesome, but the pieces never seemed to completely fit together. It was like they made a game that the technology of the day wasnt ready for. The rampant bugs/exploits, things they just couldnt seem to fix, and lag from hell when hundreds of people were fighting together did not help the game in the long run. I remember playing back when it came out imagining what the game would be like if it came out 10 or 15 years in the future.

 

2. Griefing. Now obviously I know the theme behind Shadowbane was Play 2 Crush and it was a hardcore pvp game, but one thing that almost all MMO's with real pvp seem to struggle with is the extreme griefer element. Im ok with pvp, pk's, and all of that fun stuff, but some guilds took that to a unhealthy level. We fought against groups that literally would say they played the game just to make you quit the game and they did everything they could to make your life in game as miserable as possible, while also using every exploit in the game to do it. This just isnt healthy for a company that exists to make money, even if the game is a niche title not looking to be the next World of Warcraft. Over time players dont want to deal with this and they walk away from the game. Even in traditional MMO's that are not hardcore the same issues pop up. Over time people move to other servers or walk away from the game when the environment becomes too toxic. When I played Shadowbane our nation was the "good" guys, not because we really wanted to be good guys, but more because we wanted to play in a way that made the game remain fun, it kept players in the game, and possibly brought in new players too. This put us in direct conflict with the worst "griefers" at the time because we just didnt agree with that playstyle being good for the long term future of the game.

 

 

The newer next gen games really never were a part of why I eventually left the game, and I honestly dont remember almost anyone in the nation really saying that was why they left, but I do remember a lot of people discussing things related to my two points above. Shadowbane was both my best and worst MMO experience. I will always have fond memories of that time and am really intrigued by the possiblities for Crowfall (or Crowbane).

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Mayson and I had a hearty debate with Ashen and a couple of the other guys from SB games years back for our podcast thing we were doing. I think it's impossible to know for sure as there were many factors, but I still feel strongly that one of the biggest ones were how utterly unplayable the game was for the first 6 or so months after launch.

 

I know Shadowbane players and I know folks who played Shadowbane.  The second group has a lot of folks in it and it's usually not "my city was destroyed" that is the stated reason they decided to leave.  It was the SB.exe's, the cheating, or the general inability to log in and stay in game for an extended period that scared them off.  That's totally anecdotal, and maybe easily disproven, but my experience.


Your milkshake lures all the fine folks to the yard. Verily, it is better than mine. Surely it is better than mine. Would you teach me, or would you levy a fee? - Integ

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Hey, hey, hey, let's be nice... believe me, the run speed nerf was needed... it really was!!! ((waits to hear all about the things Ashen screwed up when he became Lead Designer))

lol, when you're running so fast that you hit up against that imaginary barrier of empty void (because the terrain couldn't load fast enough) you know it's time to nerf that poorly made socks.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

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Shadowbane did lose a lot of players within the first year due to their inability to cope with the loss of cities, but the game did not truly start to die until around 2007. Macros and key-cloning were by far less of a factor than CN ruining every server it touched and CCR corruption.


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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Shadowbane did lose a lot of players within the first year due to their inability to cope with the loss of cities, but the game did not truly start to die until around 2007. Macros and key-cloning were by far less of a factor than CN ruining every server it touched and CCR corruption.

 

Again I think this is all based on whatever someone's subjective definition of the word "dying" is.


Your milkshake lures all the fine folks to the yard. Verily, it is better than mine. Surely it is better than mine. Would you teach me, or would you levy a fee? - Integ

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can we pls get sb.exe's in this game... it was part of the experience!

 

i'll admit i lol'd...

 

but still...drink bleach and diaf for even wishing that in Jest....

 

yas know i'm kidding ...right?

 

right?

 

cereally...just a Joke, ffs....

 

/hides

 

Excelsior!


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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lol, when you're running so fast that you hit up against that imaginary barrier of empty void (because the terrain couldn't load fast enough) you know it's time to nerf that ****.

 

Oh, it was worse than that... although I did hate that, too. The client and servers actually were a little different and where the server said you were wasn't where the client said you were... hence all the rubberbanding. It wasn't nearly as noticeable at normal speeds (except when there was server lag) since the adjustments were made quickly enough... but when you were going Mach 10, it almost looked like a blink spell because the server would correct you from almost half a map away, lol.

 

The movement system was the first system I wanted to gank and start from scratch on... but it wasn't in the cards for the short-term so I went a little heavy-handed with the speed buffs and disallowed them from stacking. The plus is it made the Scout run skill a little more viable.

 

Talk about ancient history...


Sean aka Ashen Temper | http://www.seandahlberg.com/

Without the Player, there is no Game!

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I hope that client and server incompatibility issue isn't something that needs to be worried about any longer.  I'm fairly ignorant in the networking department.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

cdinUTh.png

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see now here is where some Forumbane asshat would quote mourne and just show him saying "I'm failry ignorant" and cut out the rest...then mebbe use it for a sig Quote....

 

the olde skewl giggled at that and nodded sagely, others just had their first lesson in ForumBane

 

no need to applaud, just throw money....

 

Excelsior!


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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