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newface

In The End, I Think I Want Mmorts...

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Let me explain what I image being an mmoRTS instead of an mmoRPG... Classic RPG definition is to me the Final Fantasy / Dungeon & Dragon games and concepts. It involves killing monsters to get stronger and stronger until you can take on the epic battle to save the world (or a princess or what ever).

 

On the other side, an RTS is a battle over territories to acquire resources and increase your military might to take over more territories / improve your base (or town) to ultimately take over your opponent. The classic definition usually involves 1 mastermind controlling an army of units... but this is where the MMO part kicks in.

 

My dream / expectation is to see the game based on territorial domination to acquire resources to progress. This is what brings 'meaningful' PvP. This is why I believe I want an mmoRTS over an mmoRPG. I have very little interest in spending hours fighting monsters (and usually, the PvE kind of sucks in games where the PvP focus is pretty big). I want to log in and find meaningful PvP. I want to have an impact on the world where if my and my friends rally up to take over an enemy's base, this game actually start building up for us, hence, becomes part of our empire.

 

More over, it isn't really realistic to think of an mmoRTS where resources are spent to build more units... This is where the impossibility occurs. You cannot with in game resources really buy more players to play the game. This is where the element of RPG becomes important. It makes much more sense to have your military units become stronger as you acquire resources than having more military units. This usually mean better equipment and so on...

 

 

 

Someone, I slowly realize that this is what I actually am more looking for than an RPG. I am unsure if this is the right name for it or if we should call it something else and I am curious if this game will offer us exactly that, somewhat of that or if I will just be massively disappointed with the game. Your thoughts?!?

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MMORTS's exist, although you'll have to accept the drawbacks inherit to the genre. Shattered Galaxy is perhaps the oldest MMORTS/RPG, i think its still f2p. More recently you can try Kingdom Wars on steam, or the upcoming http://empyreanrule.com/content/lore game.There are others (like Saga, but its quite old) and some non-fantasy ones that also take a stab at it.

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The thing is that we always though of an RTS as you being the mastermind... What those games lack is you being the peon in this RTS world. This is why my dream is more about an MMORPG played in an RTS way where every single unit within the battlefield is an actual person.

 

What people design as an RTS is always with you being the overmind of your army / city and battling other armies controlled by other overminds or groups of overminds. This I have absolutely no interest in.

 

What I want to see is the design of the world being RTS like... but in the end, every single unit actually being humans. What this does is that instead of the focus of the game being: 'Go kill big bad homosapien dragonesk giant worm' which would be a traditional RPG goal, I want to see the goal of the game being: Control resources XYZ, territories ABC and so on to ensure the wealth and eventually the victory of your kingdom (in which, you are but a simple military unit among many others).

 

This is why I sort of call it an MMORTS... to my belief, this never really been done.

Edited by newface

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1. You're gonna be disappointed.

2. This isn't going to be military conquest.

3. The PVP you are describing is not true PVP and therefore not meaningful.

4. Your wild speculations are going to prevent you from enjoying the game when it comes out.

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1- Maybe.

 

2- I don't know, destroy cities sounds like military conquests to me.

 

3- How is that PvP not true PvP? You call true PvP jumping a dude trying to kill a lizard to get his 5 lizard goo real PvP? Describe real PvP... What is more meaningful than to see a world being shaped as you take over other nation's cities and territories as you win or as you see your own nation being reduced to the level of vessel of your oppressor and / or completely annihilated in case of defeat?

 

4- Maybe, I try to keep my expectations low... I just hope it doesn't end like another of those hyped niche market wanna be game that actually call itself niche only because they fall short of producing something that actually is original and new.

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Completely agreed, though I'd much prefer an MMORTS-FPS. EVE is pretty close to an MMORTS, but with garbage combat.

 

Darkfall proved you can have an open MMO that requires both group tactics and grand war strategy, and yet still has very active, engaging, and skill-based combat.

 

I don't particularly care for RPG components.

 

 

1. You're gonna be disappointed.

2. This isn't going to be military conquest.

3. The PVP you are describing is not true PVP and therefore not meaningful.

4. Your wild speculations are going to prevent you from enjoying the game when it comes out.

 
You are very likely correct, and I too am likely going to be disappointed with Crowfall. Still holding out a bit of hope that things will look more favorable in the next 10 days though.
Edited by Zarithas

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You might be surprised, they reference strategy all the time, calling the game an MMO strategy most recently. I'd like this too, not to emphasis macro play of multiple units, but to make the combat more strategic and tactical on a gameplay level.

 

I think it's obvious that resourcing and location control are a significant part of the direction here, I just hope the gameplay expands beyond face rolling skills or skate and aim battles too.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Completely agreed, though I'd much prefer an MMORTS-FPS. EVE is pretty close to an MMORTS, but with garbage combat.

 

Darkfall proved you can have an open MMO that requires both group tactics and grand war strategy, and yet still has very active, engaging, and skill-based combat.

 

I don't particularly care for RPG components.

 

 

 
You are very likely correct, and I too am likely going to be disappointed with Crowfall. Still holding out a bit of hope that things will look more favorable in the next 10 days though.

 

 

I thought Darkfall proved that you shouldn't believe Tasos and his lies?

 

Anyway, I'd love for an MMORTS to be done right, I love Natural Selection 2, Nuclear Dawn and all the other FPS/RTS hybrid games that have come out over the years. I don't mind being a peon, as long as the gameplay is engaging and I can distinguish myself as a god among peons - even if I am a mere pawn in the mastermind's war.

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I thought Darkfall proved that you shouldn't believe Tasos and his lies?

 

Anyway, I'd love for an MMORTS to be done right, I love Natural Selection 2, Nuclear Dawn and all the other FPS/RTS hybrid games that have come out over the years. I don't mind being a peon, as long as the gameplay is engaging and I can distinguish myself as a god among peons - even if I am a mere pawn in the mastermind's war.

The Darkfall devs were awful, but they built a really cool game engine that allowed for very fun 1v1, small scale, and large scale combat. They also provided a territory system that was incomplete but just robust enough to allow for politics, metagaming, and strategic warfare. Those are really the only 2 things you need for a fun sandbox PvP MMO, though of course without other things your game will die quickly.

 

You might be surprised, they reference strategy all the time, calling the game an MMO strategy most recently. I'd like this too, not to emphasis macro play of multiple units, but to make the combat more strategic and tactical on a gameplay level.

 

I think it's obvious that resourcing and location control are a significant part of the direction here, I just hope the gameplay expands beyond face rolling skills or skate and aim battles too.

We'll see. There seems to be some contradictory information out there right now. The Play2Crush site, and everything the devs post on the forums, seem to show clear intentions which appear to run counter to some of the teaser announcements on the main page. The big announcement might change this.

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I bring back this 'old' topic but with the new information released with the kickstarter and what not, do you feel like they are getting close to the concept I was mentioning of 'MMORTS'? The world having a winning condition and all... Seems fairly close to it.

 

I just didn't have time to go through all the information released. Anyone did?

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I feel like their actually getting further away, with silly things like double jump and slidy movement completely counteracting a great deal of the strategic behavior suggested from all their other claimed features.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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