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Vicid

Guess I'll play Ranger Too

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4 hours ago, pamintandrei said:

*claims ranger is op but uses a build that is made to fight melees*

This hurt to watch.

You should see what happens when you play a Templar against this poorly made socks.

 

It's over for us Non-Rangercels. 

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4 hours ago, pamintandrei said:

*claims ranger is op but uses a build that is made to fight melees*

................ nice meme

Edited by Jjusticar

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The real problem with ranger is they don't have a counter. They inherently have great stealth detection, better range than a chain pull/net, and have built in damage immunity to survive long enough to kill a target once the gap is closed. If the ultimate didn't provide immunity frames the class would be highly susceptible to burst, but would retain its current offensive strengths. 

I would also like to see ACE incorporate some type of mechanic into Rapid Fire. A forced Crit mechanic to unlock the ability to rapid fire would make the ranger value the Crit stat more, and could possibly reduce their sustained damage without nerfing the class into oblivion. Mechanically the Ranger seems to be a dull class, and I would love ACE to spruce it up with another mechanic.

Edited by Zatch

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Correct me if I'm wrong but they did just cut +20m off a ranger's top end with the removal of class +range training, right? Rangers are pretty squishy in my experience once you catch them. 

In the short term here's what I'd like to see:

  • Make it so rapid fire gets no range modifiers. Make it locked to 30-35m like the ground target AoEs are. If that's not enough then increase the cooldown on it also. 
  • Increase the cost on ranger ultimate to 1000. Once you finally catch a ranger most of them can double ultimate on you. That needs to go. 
  • The +range on the elken might need to go or at least get cut in half to 5M. Elken pretty strong already with trailmaster, see invs/perception, racial charge ability, and decent stats. The +range bonus may be a bit much. There's a reason the two range DPS classes that can go Elken (ranger/confessor) all pretty much go Elken. 

Long term I'd like to see Ranger be more of the melee/range hybrid it was originally billed to be. Right now they play more like a stalker (long range DPS class) than they do a Ranger. I think a lot of the issues with the Ranger stemmed from the stalker class getting rolled into the Ranger. They're a melee/range hybrid plus a long range sniper. That said, their survivability and melee ability would have to be increased to be a real hybrid to go along with decrease in ranged ability. 

Edited by blazzen

Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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Expose knock down is the worst made socks CC mechanic in the game. Giving it to the most OP class in the game is straight dumb af.

Edited by dreaden

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Pretty much killed this test for me.

I just can't fathom how in Gods green earth you all sat around and thought, " you know what Rangers need? A ranged expose knock down! And let's give it their already OP rapid fire ability"

Seriously is it April (fools)? I don't like to gripe because I know this is a test and who cares... it will all get ironed out... but WTF? Who's ironing this poorly made socks? Edward Scissorhands? 

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I'll either stop playing for now or roll a ranger.. really no other option currently.

 

BD

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Ranger rapid fire is way over tuned, I have made mention of this long before this change, with their kite-ability on elkin, their insane damage, and now near infinite ranged CC, Crushing arrows + RF exposed KD, you are digging yourselves a grave here in a sense boosting this class like this.

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I fully support moving ranger's abilities to pure energy, getting rid of arrows, and making all ammo quiver based. Ammo is not a resource mechanic even if the quivers were removed. Its just a chore.

Simple Ranger Rework

Remove the damage buff from rapid fire. Replace it with a stacking severity snare. Full stacks = root. You may use it to slow multiple opponents, root when tactically sound (you know they can't dodge an arrow or a friend has planted them for you)

Remove the root from the melee fall back combo. Replace it with "grants one dodge point" so the ranger must choose CC or mobility for the combo rather than getting both. This equalizes mobility for WELF, who lacks a hotbar racial mobility key.

Add stun proc to ult (predictable, like cleric's offensive ult with a visible timer to next proc)

Make healing from ult conditional on on CCs, requiring the ranger to hit a stunned/knocked down foe to get HP.

Add "You always move at full speed in combat." to half elf racial passive. Makes HELFs more interesting and competitive for all professions, no longer self-slow or self-root for any class/disc abilities.

Stake is garbage. Either upgrade the slow to a root or drop the cast time significantly.

Allow stake to be slotted in melee tray.

Some kind of special disc for humans to make them the obvious apex melee ranger?

 

Alternate (more involved) resource/ult mechanic

Still just get rid of arrows and use quivers. Seriously. Arrows are a chore and are not a balanceable resource mechanic.

Rangers in ranged tray use "focus"

"Focus" bar starts at zero, gains for each hit, subtracts half as much for each miss.

Focus bar automatically recharges when you exit combat (after pathfinding)

Ranger ranged abilities have no cooldowns, but require varying amounts of focus to fire.

Ranger class feature: all ranged tray abilities use your max attack range.

Rapid fire is an endless channel that consumes some focus for each shot.

Melee abilities require focus, all melee combo final attacks regenerate HP.

Ranger Melee passive no longer generates energy on melee crits, in stead grants focus.

New Ranged tray slottable passive: Gain focus over time while stationary (balance-wise, effectively halves the focus cost over time if the ranger hits every shot and is always shooting if they remain in place)

Stake is garbage. Either upgrade the slow to a root or drop the cast time significantly.

Allow stake to be slotted in melee tray.

ULT: Instantly refills focus. 5s invuln. MELEE strikes grant HP for duration (no cap) Immune to CC for duration.

Some kind of special disc for humans to make them the obvious apex melee ranger?

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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I find it quite interesting that everyone is complaining about the ranger whilst not looking at the 10k Champion with a 4k heal.

 

16 hours ago, blazzen said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but they did just cut +20m off a ranger's top end with the removal of class +range training, right? Rangers are pretty squishy in my experience once you catch them. 

Indeed... 

People are making the ranger sound a lot stronger than it is, purely based on the fact that they aren't speccing to counter them anymore cause there are much more unblanced  dangerous  classes out there.

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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How to balance current classes:

1) Fix stealth detection bugs.

2) Fix Toxin chance bug.

3) Fix Myrmidon bugs.

4) Fix CC immunity on Druid's Ult.

5) Revert expose punisher on Ranger's Rapid Fire.

6) Narrow ray cast by 50% / Make aiming harder on long range.

7) Tune down one of three things on Champion: sustain, mobility or damage (ask Champion mains, what is better).

8) Replace auto crit from Duelist's Rapid Fire with +50% crit. chance bonus (perhaps do the same for Champion dominance points).

Done.

Edited by ComradeAma

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1 hour ago, ComradeAma said:

How to balance current classes:

1) Fix stealth detection bugs.

2) Fix Toxin chance bug.

3) Fix Myrmidon bugs.

4) Fix CC immunity on Druid's Ult.

5) Revert expose punisher on Ranger's Rapid Fire.

6) Narrow ray cast by 50% / Make aiming harder on long range.

7) Tune down one of three things on Champion: sustain, mobility or damage (ask Champion mains, what is better).

8) Replace auto crit from Duelist's Rapid Fire with +50% crit. chance bonus (perhaps do the same for Champion dominance points).

Done.

Or they could make minor disciplines to counter classes.For exemple the "I really hate mercenaries" minor disc, "you deal 20% more damage and receive 20% less damage when fighting against mercenary class".The bad part is that even if they implement something like this some players won't use them and they will still complain about classes being op.

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4 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

I find it quite interesting that everyone is complaining about the ranger whilst not looking at the 10k Champion with a 4k heal.

Cause a champion needs to make an effort to accomplish this and work with other classes to get that boost, while these issues others are talking about with rangers are accomplished by the rangers alone.

Unless you know something i dont, then please tell me how to get to 10K HP as a champ solo. Cause naked i have 5K-something HP (And This is With a Green Quality Vessel with a lil over 200 CON) with an ability from Rune Caster to boost up to 6K (close to 7K) and with full chain mail plus that ability from Rune Caster im only at 7k-8.k HP. The only time i hit 10K+ is when running my buff plus the clerics group health aura with my full chain. And there was 1 time i had almost 12K cause we got another temp health boost from another class

3 hours ago, ComradeAma said:

7) Tune down one of three things on Champion: sustain, mobility or damage (ask Champion mains, what is better).

 

Champions lack range aside from hurlbat 

They lack mobility aside from leap which can be used up to 2 times to close a gap then has a 20 second CD, and with the current bugs with jump abilities is also a massive risk to use cause it could chunk off 2K+ damage randomly when you shouldnt be taking fall damage. Also the second jump is part of a combo, so if they land on their enemy with the first jump they have about .5 seconds to jump again and if the enemy stays for that .5 seconds then blinks away the champ loses their ability to get in range to fight their target OR if the champ has to waste both jumps to catch up to an enemy it takes the enemy 1 Blink to get out of their range, and 2 blinks to get to a safe distance to harass them (See Wood Elfs/Nethari/ Anything else that gets a long range dodge). But yes they are potent against melee classes that have no escapes, but the same can be said for Myrmidons as well.

Their default kit also has no hard CC (They get a blind, a suppress OR bleed, and a slow on hurlbat), they have no way of actually holding an enemy in place in their base kit and none of the races that play champion have good dodges

In terms of sustain there is a 30 second period of time after they use Ultimate warrior a second time (25 seconds + enough extra time to regain full hatred) in which they no longer have access to their heal, so forcing them to that spot puts them in a position of vulnerability. And if they build disciplines and such for sustain then obviously they will have more than normal survivability, but they are sacrificing disciplines with more damage and/or more CCs.

In terms of damage thats really subjective, cause depending on how long your fights with champs are lasting (and if they are smart enough to pre stack their dominance), chances are they started the fight with max (10 stacks, or at least near max) dominance, which means if they use their abilities wisely they can get free guaranteed crits for certain attacks. Which i will agree could use some reworking, since the only ways to get dominance is Leap (1x Per Jump) or Ultimate warrior (2x Per Use) or a minor discipline that grants one dominance on basic attack crit. This means that once they blow through all their starting dominance their damage falls off pretty hard because maintaining dominance becomes harder when you have to find a way to leap twice that doesnt allow your opponent to get away OR they blow their main sustain ability early to get more damage. Without dominance champions lose alot of their damage and get really close to just being basic attack bots that hit for 100-300ish damage.

So i will agree that there might be some room for improving something with the damage output, but then again, maybe they want that class that front loads their damage then has to work hard to be able to get it back. In larger siege fights even with full dominance, the stacks dont last long and you end up in the middle of a massive fight with lots of targets and lower damage. Champs also have no real AoE (they have a spin move that hits nearby people and thats it). The game isnt balanced around 1v1, so Yes going solo against a champ already puts you at a disadvantage cause they specialize on focusing down single targets, but they dont get the huge AoEs of other classes, they dont get multiples of alot of CCs, they dont have persistent healing. They have damage, a little more damage, and an OOPS things are looking bad button and thats pretty much it.

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5 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

I find it quite interesting that everyone is complaining about the ranger whilst not looking at the 10k Champion with a 4k heal.

 

Indeed... 

People are making the ranger sound a lot stronger than it is, purely based on the fact that they aren't speccing to counter them anymore cause there are much more unblanced  dangerous  classes out there.

Well...this thread is about rangers which is why im guessing people are complaining. I think almost everyone is well aware that champions are close to or just as busted.

But that doesn't mean ranger isn't busted. It is...its definitely the most loaded kit in the game. Followed by champ. And there is our issue. Ive been saying it forever, giving classes everything = awful PvP 

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48 minutes ago, ShadowwBoi13 said:

 

Too much text to quote but ill respond. 

- in group fights champs dont need range. They are meant to be in the melee scrum, why would they need range. Pointless argument, they're a melee class. 

- they have more innate mobility in their kit than a majority of other classes. You need to take into account comparison to other kits. Not to mention wood-elf and nethari are neigh never used right now because the other races are just objectively stronger. 

- again, you said it yourself, its not a 1v1 game. Champion will have healers to cover any amount of downtime they may have. Not to mention they can cover that time solo with 2 ulti powers. 

- the slow on hurlbat is actually pretty insane if you hit it consistently, which isnt hard. Even so, just run mole hunter and your problem is solved. They still have one of the strongest types of CC in the game (suppress) on top of 2 aoe knockdowns not gated behind a combo. 

- it's really not subjective about their damage. They are one of the harder hitting classes, period. Even without dominance their rend still ticks for a ton. And a majority of their abilities have pretty high base damages. Plus...honestly, its really not hard to stack dominance. Plus their aoe following an ulti power can chunk an entire group, their aoe is massive. You just need to know your timings. Even without ulti, just have a druid or ranger root an entire group and have fun. 

- claiming without dominance they are basic attack bots is a nice meme. Their abilities, without dominance, still have equal or greater base values as other classes. 

But nice try man

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CF Community months ago: "Hey the ranger is a little strong and they have too many tools in their kit.  Please remove some."
ACE: "Let's give them a second Expose Punish on their most spammed ability"

Edited by Destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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8 minutes ago, Destrin said:

CF Community months ago: "Hey the ranger is a little strong and they have too many tools in their kit.  Please remove some."
ACE: "Let's give them a second Expose Punish on their most spammed ability"

ACE: "Lets worry about balance later" *buffs ranger*

 

 

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