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Dondagora

"Soft" Population Control: Total Export Cap

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On 6/10/2018 at 7:30 AM, Armegeddon said:

False.The Mine system was flawed. BTW Todd had nothing to do with the mine system, they came along much later. 
The gist of it was, each Zone had a mine, There were many (around 35 or so), though magic and expansion mines were most sought after. What was supposed to be a hour window of PvP once the mine went live, ended up being 15 minute fights at best, with people coming in at the end of the window to "ninja" the mine. Once claimed, it delivered 23 hours of production to your city's warehouse. It was bad design.

Banes,,.... well, that was another story.

 

I think the mine system was fun and the logistical and intel elements that enabled/prevented ninja claims were also fun.

I thought the disc interaction that required specialists to claim them was also fun.

Additionally, those nations that actually attempted to claim and hold multiple mines spent longer than 15 minutes fighting over mines over the course of a given day. Mines generally took up a solid hour to three for us in combination of burning, scouting, claiming, ninja-scout claiming, and defending already burnt mines from ninjas.

An hour of vulnerability doesn't necessarily equate to an hour of PvP in any system and there's not really a way to design around that. It means an hour of potential fights.

It was a very shadowbane way to gather resources, considering that direct gathering wasn't really a thing outside of boring mob grinds, and led you to fight nations you otherwise wouldn't due to geographical distribution.

I think its primary flaw was that like much of PvP in any sandbox there was a lot of hurry up and wait. They could have stood to make guards automatically attach to the thing and respawn just so you had something to do and to prevent quite so much solo claiming. I know "add pve" wou;dn't have been very popular at the time, but it was a system that worked to prevent too much solo custardery in claimed cities, and with mines being much easier to flip I think they would have benefitted from having free respawning guards ranked related to the value of the mine.

Also battlemage rune was a mistake in the whole system IMO. We played on lore as barb charters so we didn't actually use them since we had str specs and siege hammers, but battlemage did let small numbers of player burn too fast IMO.

It probably also would have been a good idea to prevent mine vuln windows from overlapping for more than 30 minutes with another nearby mine to prevent the "server mine hour" phenomenon where people just used choice paralysis and the clock to defend mines. Also would have made mine windows to fight over throughout the day.

I wouldn't want to see it for mats, but a crowfall version of the mechanic as a campaign objective is something I'd totally play.


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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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11 hours ago, mandalore said:

When SB fights were good they were out-custard-standing but some many people duped, exploited or key-cloned that the odds of getting good fights diminished every day.  Some of the better banes I went to still crush PvP in a lot of MMO's but for every good fight I got in SB I got 10 meaningless poorly made socks fights.

Again, agreed.... as far as "Banes" went, it beat anything I have played since. It's the largest reason why I am here, chasing the thought of what SB was. I had Duped FC gear on all my toons, 7 accounts maxxed in gold resources etc.... But I was by no means alone in that. I didn't quit at "Relaunch" of Malog/Thurin Saedron.


My point was that "Mines", in and of themselves were flawed. Was it fun? Yeah, I guess. Great PvP? Not so much. Hell, I remember we held Obsidian for literally weeks in a row when I was with SotD. We'd just roll in and ROFLstomp the poor bastards at the end. 15 minutes a day (per 24 hour period) to throttle the servers availability of the most premium resource. People were paying 1 to 2 million gold per piece for Obsidian......That is not good design, and I say that as someone who benefited from it.


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3 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Again, agreed.... as far as "Banes" went, it beat anything I have played since. It's the largest reason why I am here, chasing the thought of what SB was. I had Duped FC gear on all my toons, 7 accounts maxxed in gold resources etc.... But I was by no means alone in that. I didn't quit at "Relaunch" of Malog/Thurin Saedron.


My point was that "Mines", in and of themselves were flawed. Was it fun? Yeah, I guess. Great PvP? Not so much. Hell, I remember we held Obsidian for literally weeks in a row when I was with SotD. We'd just roll in and ROFLstomp the poor bastards at the end. 15 minutes a day (per 24 hour period) to throttle the servers availability of the most premium resource. People were paying 1 to 2 million gold per piece for Obsidian......That is not good design, and I say that as someone who benefited from it.

TBH no PvP system is "fun" when one force is clearly inferior to the other for long periods of time so consider it is possible it wasn't simply the mines that were the source of your displeasure, but the lacking challenge prevented by your opponents use of the system.

The best core designs are never going to be fun if the competing forces aren't competitive with one another and really that's a job for matchmaking or other such systems which SB didn't have and Crowfall kind of does in the form of campaign cycles.

It sounds like your problem was more the stagnation of power blocs (A general failing for persistance which the campaign model is attempting to fix) than that the mine system was broken. Stagnant power blocs are usually pretty boring for the winners and pretty frustrating for the losers until something happens to disrupt the status quo TBH.

You could easily have the same issue with banes if you were in a position where you ran a super-nation that owned all the cities for instance.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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4 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Hell, I remember we held Obsidian for literally weeks in a row when I was with SotD. We'd just roll in and ROFLstomp the poor bastards at the end. 15 minutes a day (per 24 hour period) to throttle the servers availability of the most premium resource. People were paying 1 to 2 million gold per piece for Obsidian......That is not good design, and I say that as someone who benefited from it.

The constant decay of gear will mean this won't happen.  You will need those resources and they will need to contest it bc they will also need them. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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2 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Todd often talks of slippery slope mechanics and avoiding them so one side doesn't become too powerful to where it's an uncle bob situation. 

In Todd We Trust! 

I have nightmares of that Blair/Uncle BoB pic...

pOPiDfD.png


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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