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blazzen

5.7 Myrm Fixes / Nerfs

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In case you didn't watch the stream today there's some fixes / nerfs coming to Myrm in 5.7!

  • The bug which caused berserk to heal the myrmidon when a barrier or immunity was active even though the Myrmidon wasn't taking damage was fixed. This is what caused some big heal spikes during blood of the giants / raging bull. It also caused essentially double effectiveness on barriers while berserk. 
  • Long Power Cooldown Modifiers no longer effect Berserk. So no more lowering the cooldown on Berserk so it can be chained. To be honest I could never remember to use furious slash to do this anyways nor have I reached that training in 5.6 yet. This is a good change but not as significant as some think. 
  • Punch Drunk being removed completely. This hurts because it used to reset the cooldown on Berserk allowing it to be chained along with resetting the cooldown on the ever popular Juggernaut ability Unstoppable to make the Myrm CC immune to prevent crashes. This one hurts the most but will also hurt many other builds for many other classes (standard bearer). 

These were overall good changes across the board. The bug was insanely powerful, an ability having 100% up time isn't great, and punch drunk was abused in so many builds but was especially powerful for Myrmidons.

However, this will weaken the Myrm quite a bit with no counter balancing. It will be interesting to see how the Myrmidon plays after this. If it seems as though the Myrmidon is too weak my suggestion would be to either increase the duration on Berserk while maintaining the up time (12 second duration with 16 second cooldown please?) or increase the Scent of Blood effect to mitigate 50% of the crash when striking a bleeding target from the current 25%. 

Overall I do not think it's time to panic - I think the class will still be just fine. 

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Ya the punch drunk removal was definitely a big change. But I agree it's not time to panic. I think myrm is in a pretty balanced spot right now, and in the right hands I think will still be able to really wreak some havoc. That said, the current timer on berserk with the amount of random CC being thrown around in fights is pretty frustrating. Only having like what, 5 seconds or 6 seconds, to actually do something just feels so awful.

But overall, I think the changes are healthier for the game and combat balance. I'd just prefer long crash timers with bigger crashes. That's a main aspect that drew me to the class. I think myrm is still strong, still hit like trucks and I don't see these fixes/nerfs changing that.

Also, get rid of Blood of the Giants. Makes the main myrm mechanic pretty brain-dead. Even with the 30sec lockout on the second stack of BoTG you are still generally able to use your Q power to negate a crash or simply play peel in your mid/back-line for like 20 seconds until it's back up. But I get off topic!

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56 minutes ago, Jjusticar said:

Also, get rid of Blood of the Giants. Makes the main myrm mechanic pretty brain-dead. Even with the 30sec lockout on the second stack of BoTG you are still generally able to use your Q power to negate a crash or simply play peel in your mid/back-line for like 20 seconds until it's back up. But I get off topic!

It's equally as brain dead using pulverize to mitigate the crash as blood of the giants. Blood of the giants has a smaller window (1 to 1.5 seconds) than pulverize (2-2.5 seconds). The main advantage blood of the giants has is the iFrame and the fact that it doesn't cost half your fury bar like pulverize does. 

Scent of Blood is an interesting way to mitigate the crash by attacking a bleeding target. It might be interesting to tailor the class mechanic more around that then timing the crash with pulverize/blood of giants/raging bull. Maybe more of a "the best defense is a good offense" type of character where the more damage you do while berserk the more damage you mitigate?

It's a really interesting class and one I really love playing. 

 

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2 hours ago, blazzen said:

These were overall good changes across the board. The bug was insanely powerful, an ability having 100% up time isn't great, and punch drunk was abused in so many builds but was especially powerful for Myrmidons.

However, this will weaken the Myrm quite a bit with no counter balancing. It will be interesting to see how the Myrmidon plays after this. If it seems as though the Myrmidon is too weak my suggestion would be to either increase the duration on Berserk while maintaining the up time (12 second duration with 16 second cooldown please?) or increase the Scent of Blood effect to mitigate 50% of the crash when striking a bleeding target from the current 25%. 

Overall I do not think it's time to panic - I think the class will still be just fine. 

the main question is still there - do they plan to fix old bugs (berserker UI, root in place after rush etc) and useless basic kit except net and LMB+class passive.

overall for me this looks like expected and needed changes

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2 hours ago, blazzen said:

It's equally as brain dead using pulverize to mitigate the crash as blood of the giants. Blood of the giants has a smaller window (1 to 1.5 seconds) than pulverize (2-2.5 seconds). The main advantage blood of the giants has is the iFrame and the fact that it doesn't cost half your fury bar like pulverize does. 

Except pulverize actually has counterplay and is fun to use. Blood of the Giants makes the mechanic boring. Pulverize can actually be interrupted and shows a lot more skill expression than BoTG. Pulverize requires you to recognize the situation and channel accordingly because if you fully channel every crash youre bound to just get interrupted before you finish it. 

Just my personal preference. The knifes edge gameplay of Myrm is what draws me to it and half-giant just takes a lot of that away imo.

2 hours ago, blazzen said:

Scent of Blood is an interesting way to mitigate the crash by attacking a bleeding target. It might be interesting to tailor the class mechanic more around that then timing the crash with pulverize/blood of giants/raging bull. Maybe more of a "the best defense is a good offense" type of character where the more damage you do while berserk the more damage you mitigate?

id love to play with this idea more. It would be like old berserk with the high scaling damage by taking a lot of damage, which I really miss. 

Would offer multiple playstyles as well. Imagine going for a taste for blood build, which requires a passive, but also an option with half-giant racial as it is allowing you to mitigate crashes that way while opening up a passive slot. Or something along those lines. Interesting to think about.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Jjusticar said:

Except pulverize actually has counterplay and is fun to use. Blood of the Giants makes the mechanic boring. Pulverize can actually be interrupted and shows a lot more skill expression than BoTG. Pulverize requires you to recognize the situation and channel accordingly because if you fully channel every crash youre bound to just get interrupted before you finish it. 

Just my personal preference. The knifes edge gameplay of Myrm is what draws me to it and half-giant just takes a lot of that away imo.

The interrupt on pulverize probably doesn't work like you think.

If you're using pulverize the instant the crash happens but are stunned a split second later, you don't crash. You only have to be channeling pulverize when the crash actually happens for crash prevention. You don't have to finish channeling the ability.

What this means is you don't want to interrupt pulverize you want to CC the myrm before they even use it as most of the time if you're seeing pulverize you're too late to get a CC off before the crash comes. Good Myrm's will wait until about 0.5 seconds before the crash to begin channeling so there's less chance of getting interrupted. 

What this means is there's not a whole lot of difference between blood of the giants and pulverize in that regard. If you pre CC the myrm they can't use blood of the giants either.

The main thing blood of the giants does is no fury cost crash mitigation plus the damage bonus.  

Edited by blazzen

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, blazzen said:

The interrupt on pulverize probably doesn't work like you think.

If you're using pulverize the instant the crash happens but are stunned a split second later, you don't crash. You only have to be channeling pulverize when the crash actually happens for crash prevention. You don't have to finish channeling the ability.

I always assumed this was just a bug or weird interaction of what it was supposed to be. Which imo makes a lot more sense then how it is currently. So that's why I talked about it how i did like it can be interrupted. 

I guess I didnt know that was intended

Edited by Jjusticar

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Just now, Jjusticar said:

I always assumed this was just a bug or weird interaction of what it was supposed to be. Which imo makes a lot more sense then how it is currently. So that's why I talked about it how i did like it can be interrupted. 

I guess I didnt know that was intended

Intent is kind of hard to tell. You'd have to ask the designers. All I know is how it currently works. 

You can actually see the crash protection activate as a circle that will surround the heart shaped berserk meter.

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