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DoomYa

Ganking all over

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I haven't seen a single true PvP fight so far. Just 2 or 3:1 fights against someone farming.

I don't hope this is intended, because ganking is the lowest level of PvP. It's honorless. I don't want to be on this or that side of such "PvP".

Suggestions:
- Guarding NPC in areas your faction controls.
- Let players spawn at the frontier. Not at the beach.
- We need a minimap.
- Alerts with coordinates like "Seen SirGankalot (Order) at k/22 - 20:15:30"

 

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You wanna see the chat of the last 24 hours? Here you are: 

______________________

See? We usually have 5 to 15 ppl on CW-EU (Chaos) and noone ever replies.

 

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46 minutes ago, DoomYa said:

I haven't seen a single true PvP fight so far. Just 2 or 3:1 fights against someone farming.

I don't hope this is intended, because ganking is the lowest level of PvP. It's honorless. I don't want to be on this or that side of such "PvP".

Suggestions:
- Guarding NPC in areas your faction controls. - Well technically ...there are guards in forts/keeps.. ACE isn't going to have them patrolling the countryside
- Let players spawn at the frontier. Not at the beach. - Well technically.... as long as you do not log out in a keep that gets taken... you can log out and spawn in the frontier
- We need a minimap. - I would actually like to see this honestly, but what I don't want is pips for enemy players on it. Terrain/landmarks/nodes only.
- Alerts with coordinates like "Seen SirGankalot (Order) at k/22 - 20:15:30" - Absolutely not. Organize, use voip, get better.... This game is not about crutches.

 

In short... this is not a single player game and it was never designed to be.... so... they aren't going to design mechanics to make it easier to run solo. This is a guild driven game. I would start by looking at the guild recruitment forums and finding a community that suits what you are looking for.

Guild Recruiting

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On 6/13/2018 at 2:42 PM, DoomYa said:

I haven't seen a single true PvP fight so far. Just 2 or 3:1 fights against someone farming.

I don't hope this is intended, because ganking is the lowest level of PvP. It's honorless. I don't want to be on this or that side of such "PvP".

Suggestions:
- Guarding NPC in areas your faction controls.
- Let players spawn at the frontier. Not at the beach.
- We need a minimap.
- Alerts with coordinates like "Seen SirGankalot (Order) at k/22 - 20:15:30"

 

Well they are cowards actually because they know your geared out for harvesting so chances are you going to be a easy kill. Why would they want to fight people who they might have a chance of losing against. Write the names down let other crafters know about how they gank helpless gatherers and black list them from EK's so they can not buy anything.

I Believe the Dev's did say actions will have consequences.

The looting system for groups is broken hard at the moment or else people would group up and harvest together. If 3 people get together group up and harvest then the drops should be per character based. That way tool Quality and skills taken will make a difference for that character that is the fair way to make it work. lets say you work real hard to get skills up in harvesting and craft a legendary pick then group up with some low skill guy who has a piece of junk pick and he gobbles up all the good drops. It should be he gets his own drops and you get your own that way if he has no chance to get gems or special drops he does not get them. It is not fair to the person who put forth more time money and effort into the game.

That is why people do not group up and go out harvesting together, not because they do not want to but because it is counter productive to do so. If there was some way for you to know that the person your going out with has the same skills and gear as you and is ok with you take the drops from the first node and he takes the drops from the next that might work also but no way to tell what skills and tool quality or disciplines people have.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Merrex said:

Well they are cowards actually because they know your geared out for harvesting so chances are you going to be a easy kill. Why would they want to fight people who they might have a chance of losing against. Write the names down let other crafters know about how they gank helpless gatherers and black list them from EK's so they can not buy anything.

Preventing opponents to harvest resources is one of the key strategies for winning a campaign.

4 hours ago, Merrex said:

The looting system for groups is broken hard at the moment or else people would group up and harvest together. If 3 people get together group up and harvest then the drops should be per character based. That way tool Quality and skills taken will make a difference for that character that is the fair way to make it work. lets say you work real hard to get skills up in harvesting and craft a legendary pick then group up with some low skill guy who has a piece of junk pick and he gobbles up all the good drops. It should be he gets his own drops and you get your own that way if he has no chance to get gems or special drops he does not get them. It is not fair to the person who put forth more time money and effort into the game.

That is why people do not group up and go out harvesting together, not because they do not want to but because it is counter productive to do so. If there was some way for you to know that the person your going out with has the same skills and gear as you and is ok with you take the drops from the first node and he takes the drops from the next that might work also but no way to tell what skills and tool quality or disciplines people have.

You are poorly informed on the matter here. Actually it is the one doing THE MOST DAMAGE to the node who applies HIS buffs to the node. So if you group with players less specialized than you and you manage to do more damage compared to them there is no demerit for bringing them with you since the drops will be based on your stats not theirs.

Edited by Nyamo

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I don't think you read what I wrote or did not understand what I was trying to say.

The fact of the matter is if 3 people group up in a party and harvest nodes of ore and one has high skills deep into the skill trees allowing for extra chances at better loot plus more damage to nodes + a really good tool, and the other 2 people have no skills in excavation and have poor tools the game does not compensate the player with the good skills and better tool it does not care who did what as far as the rewards are concerned they just spill out of the node and anyone in the group / party can grab them which i am stating seams a bit unfair to the one who is doing more. I was suggesting that the nodes should spit out rewards for each player in the group that only they can see and pick up and give them rewards based on their own personal skills and tools.

Nothing is going to stop players who have no skills in excavation and garbage tools from grouping up with really high skilled players and reaping the benefits and if asked what skills they have they can simply Lie and say they have high skills no one will know. It gives them a chance to get rewards they would never have gotten if they had not grouped.

So if the exceptional harvester player groups up with low skilled players and the lower skilled players are grabbing all of the good drops then it is a detriment for binging them. Especially if you can just do the nodes yourself and be guaranteed to get all the good drops that you earned by spending all the points time and effort to become good at it.

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52 minutes ago, Merrex said:

I don't think you read what I wrote or did not understand what I was trying to say.

The fact of the matter is if 3 people group up in a party and harvest nodes of ore and one has high skills deep into the skill trees allowing for extra chances at better loot plus more damage to nodes + a really good tool, and the other 2 people have no skills in excavation and have poor tools the game does not compensate the player with the good skills and better tool it does not care who did what as far as the rewards are concerned they just spill out of the node and anyone in the group / party can grab them which i am stating seams a bit unfair to the one who is doing more. I was suggesting that the nodes should spit out rewards for each player in the group that only they can see and pick up and give them rewards based on their own personal skills and tools.

Nothing is going to stop players who have no skills in excavation and garbage tools from grouping up with really high skilled players and reaping the benefits and if asked what skills they have they can simply Lie and say they have high skills no one will know. It gives them a chance to get rewards they would never have gotten if they had not grouped.

So if the exceptional harvester player groups up with low skilled players and the lower skilled players are grabbing all of the good drops then it is a detriment for binging them. Especially if you can just do the nodes yourself and be guaranteed to get all the good drops that you earned by spending all the points time and effort to become good at it.

It is a huge social aspect of the game to work together and once back to beachhead split the shares yourself not requiring the game to make it "fair" but rather require the players to decide what they consider fair.   As for a group member grabbing the doobers underservedly, simple /kick from group = fixt.   Don't group with players who won't follow your rules.

 

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2 hours ago, Merrex said:

I don't think you read what I wrote or did not understand what I was trying to say.

The fact of the matter is if 3 people group up in a party and harvest nodes of ore and one has high skills deep into the skill trees allowing for extra chances at better loot plus more damage to nodes + a really good tool, and the other 2 people have no skills in excavation and have poor tools the game does not compensate the player with the good skills and better tool it does not care who did what as far as the rewards are concerned they just spill out of the node and anyone in the group / party can grab them which i am stating seams a bit unfair to the one who is doing more. I was suggesting that the nodes should spit out rewards for each player in the group that only they can see and pick up and give them rewards based on their own personal skills and tools.

I did understand very well what you were trying to say point is we value the importance of the group in a different matter. That's why when you said:

 

8 hours ago, Nyamo said:

The looting system for groups is broken hard at the moment or else people would group up and harvest together.

i replied with:

8 hours ago, Nyamo said:

Actually it is the one doing THE MOST DAMAGE to the node who applies HIS buffs to the node. So if you group with players less specialized than you and you manage to do more damage compared to them there is no demerit for bringing them with you since the drops will be based on your stats not theirs.

because to me this is a huge incentive to group. A dedicated harvester can group with a group of players specialized in combat and have them help assisting him both in self defense from ganked and also in harvesting without worrying that their poor skills lower the output of the gathering session, since your higher skills will prevail and grant the best outcome as possible.
And i say this because to me a group is a valuable entity.

But for you a group is an obstacle to your personal gain, so i think the argument ends here because we share a different vision and arguing on this will be just futile. 
What matters to you is that no one touches your well deserved part of the loot.

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Posted (edited)

I am simply helping point out game mechanics in order for them to make the game better if they want to that is the whole point of me signing up to help play test the game which is not complete yet.

Sure we could just argue that leaving everything the way it is and making it more difficult and time consuming is what makes the game fun for you and some people I am not only pointing out a potential problem but also suggesting a solution to the problem.

I think making loot drops instanced for each player is the solution and solves all the problems that could and will come up with drops. No one would ever argue about who got what and have the need to kick greedy players from the group in the first place. And as far as grouping up I think you would have way more people doing it if there was no possibility of a potential problem

Your saying its not a problem and you like it the way it is and just work around the problem. Just two different opinions is all it is.

Edited by Merrex

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What if I'd rather put all the loot on a stealther who could get away?

They made it so people have to be in a group to see the doobers drop. Not sure what more you need. It's like you want people to not talk or create any social interaction.

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I think Merrix has a valid point. Nothing irritates people more than someone grabbing more than their fair share. I've played other games where when the group is formed, the leader has a choice to set the loot mechanic: equal distribution; distribution based upon contribution (what Merrix proposes); leader, or designated individual, loot all. None of these precludes another distribution through trading after the group concludes, if so desired, but it sure helps avoid discord if everyone knows loot distribution will be fair iaw the rules established when the group forms.

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Posted (edited)

"Honor" is a fancy word for "I expect the opponent to play by rules I made up in stead of the actual rules" in the realm of video games. "Trust" is a fancy word for "sticking to contracts I have agreed upon with other players"

"Trust" is a concept of player interaction in this sort of game. "Honor" is not.

What you are expecting of others is not something they ever agreed to. You are attempting to pose a personal value system on to a game that is in no way designed to require it. Sandbox PvP MMOs aren't about what a player "should" do, but what a player "can" do. The "should" is entirely subjective within the bounds of the EULA.

I'd like to point out a quote from the official Crowfall Rules of Conduct found here: Rules of Conduct

Specifically, the elements below are allowed in-game so long as the context is within the in-game conflict: ridicule, mock, taunt, stalk, threaten, harass, betray, scam, intimidate or abuse.

NOTE:

  • No elements of speech related to race, ethnicity, religion, country of origin and/or lifestyle preference are allowed in-game.
    If any of these behaviors/actions can be reasonably seen to be directed or intended outside of the in-game roleplaying context, the Rules of Conduct will apply.
  • All other prohibited behaviors, such as using exploits or making real world threats (as noted in the General Rules of Conduct) are still considered actionable offenses and may result in disciplinary action against your game account.

Note that the In-Game rules are slightly different than the forum rules. The basic gist of the thing is "Treat players like other human beings with respect, honor, and dignity out of game, feel free to do every manner of vile thing to players in the game, so long as it does not include attacks or abuse targeted at the real life person behind the keyboard as long as you do not use exploits or hacks to break the rules of the game."

The people that are ganking you know this, have done this, and are more successful than you are for this reason. The rules are not what you want them to be. The rules specifically permit abusing other players in game. You are being abused by gankers.

If you are grouping with players who you find it necessary to argue over drops with, perhaps you need to find players who can actually agree on what to do with drops. I certainly haven't had any arguments over drops.

Welcome to Crowfall. I look forward to one day considering you and your friends a threat.

Edited by PopeUrban

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15 hours ago, Merrex said:

I am simply helping point out game mechanics in order for them to make the game better if they want to that is the whole point of me signing up to help play test the game which is not complete yet.

Sure we could just argue that leaving everything the way it is and making it more difficult and time consuming is what makes the game fun for you and some people I am not only pointing out a potential problem but also suggesting a solution to the problem.

I think making loot drops instanced for each player is the solution and solves all the problems that could and will come up with drops. No one would ever argue about who got what and have the need to kick greedy players from the group in the first place. And as far as grouping up I think you would have way more people doing it if there was no possibility of a potential problem

Your saying its not a problem and you like it the way it is and just work around the problem. Just two different opinions is all it is.

Very bad idea. Having all the loot on one player makes it easier for killers to get said loot. Guilds are the solution to this issue, join one.

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On 6/19/2018 at 5:44 AM, Nyamo said:

You are poorly informed on the matter here. Actually it is the one doing THE MOST DAMAGE to the node who applies HIS buffs to the node. So if you group with players less specialized than you and you manage to do more damage compared to them there is no demerit for bringing them with you since the drops will be based on your stats not theirs.

I have been following the game closely but I have failed to see this info. Is this something you, or somebody has tested out, or it's been mentioned by devs. Do you a link for that info someplace?

/salute

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33 minutes ago, KDSProm said:
On 6/18/2018 at 10:44 PM, Nyamo said:

You are poorly informed on the matter here. Actually it is the one doing THE MOST DAMAGE to the node who applies HIS buffs to the node. So if you group with players less specialized than you and you manage to do more damage compared to them there is no demerit for bringing them with you since the drops will be based on your stats not theirs.

I have been following the game closely but I have failed to see this info. Is this something you, or somebody has tested out, or it's been mentioned by devs. Do you a link for that info someplace?

/salute

This was confirmed by the devs at some point a while back. They probably need a better UI indicator of this as it seems not that many are aware of it. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

I have been following the game closely but I have failed to see this info. Is this something you, or somebody has tested out, or it's been mentioned by devs. Do you a link for that info someplace?

/salute

I'd have to dig it up but if you look through @thomasblair's forums posts he was the one that laid it out for us.

Basically nodes keep a running tally of all damage dealers, similar to how mobs have a hate list. At each break point, before a node spawns doobers, it first chooses the player at the top of that list to get all of the harvesting stats from for pruposes of calculating harvest crit chance, plentiful harvest, and any drop rates for special things (like gems or bone or other stuff that might have a 0% chance without skills/gear/buffs)

It KEEPS this tally however, and does not discard or reset it after it spews doobers.

So, for example, you are breaking a motherlode.

3 of four players in your group are using +10 tools and break it down to the first break point. Whichever of those players did the most damage has their stats used for the loot spew. After that the fourth group member starts hitting it with a +70 pick. By the time you get to the next breakpoint lets say this guy has done more total damage than any one individual other party member. At the second breakpoint it is now using his stats in stead.

Now lets say he stops and one more +10 guy joins in. because it takes four +10 guys less swings to get to breakpoint 3, it's possible that +70 guy, even though he hasn't hit the node at all between breaks 2 and 3 still has the higher total damage among all players. If this is the case the node will STILL use his stats for break 3. However. if any one player has done more damage than him they are now at the top of the list because, again, the total node damage list is cumulative from the point the node is struck for the first time.

This list never gets cleared or goes away until the node is broken OR until it despawns due to taking too long to break it.

Fun freebie from the Flames of Exile tactical playbook:

"Denied Means of Production (DMOP) Maneuver"

Nodes begin their despawn timer after the first time they are hit. To enact a mass resource denial for very low cost, get any pick powerful enough to do at least one damage to the nodes in the area and hit them all at least one time. Most of them will despawn before the harvester has a chance to gather them, triggering their respawn timer and forcing the harvester to wait even longer. Employ with a naked stealther (or multiple) with the cheapest possible tool equipped for cost effective and loss-positive denial ops if targets can not be subdued by force.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Or just use a stealth class to harvest with?

1. Fill up your Q/C ult power before going out.

2. Wear better than leather armor.

3. Use only one harvesting major rune, and slot something like Juggernaut as well so you can get guaranteed CC immunity to make your escape.

4. Watch for FPS drops randomly, probably a sign that players have rendered into your visibility within 100m

5. Pump up in game sounds, lower ambient sounds. Listen for the sounds of feet running through grass.

6. After every node spot, stop, stealth, and 360 degree observe.

7. Learn the in-game names of frequent gankers or guild groups.

8. Create a second account and set that one to the enemy faction, get on chat and ask if any groups are roaming.

 

I could go on, but honestly there is so much you can do as a solo player to avoid or minimize being ganked.

Those of us who have come from games like EVE Online, doing worm hole sites or doing faction warfare solo probably have the winning mindset already, all the rest just need to HTFU and LTP.

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4 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

Thank you kindly @PopeUrban. I missed this completely and tbh I really like this solution :)

/salute

I wouldn't call my example motherlode a "solution" as it is difficult to be 100% sure +70 guy is still at the top of the damage list for break 3 and 4 due to pip abilities, lag, and weak points.

In the spirit of the thread, I'm sure you can figure out what IS the most cost effective motherlode breaking strategy for yourself with this information. ;)

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