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Whats the point of crafting taking time?

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I sent Blair a note requesting that he takes a look at this thread. Something I didn't see mentioned -- and maybe it's here and I missed it -- are the skills that will speed up crafting time. Is the consensus that they aren't worth burning skill points to train at all or that even after you've max trained them you're still not able to craft as quickly as you'd like?


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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I would guess it's more the second. Due to constantly gaining them over time Skill points are not exactly finite, people are filling those nodes up but crafting is probably the slowest and least active thing to do playing Crowfall right now. 


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42 minutes ago, Pann said:

I sent Blair a note requesting that he takes a look at this thread. Something I didn't see mentioned -- and maybe it's here and I missed it -- are the skills that will speed up crafting time. Is the consensus that they aren't worth burning skill points to train at all or that even after you've max trained them you're still not able to craft as quickly as you'd like?

For me, currently not worth the time to train.

Getting 5 second builds down to 3 seconds or 60 seconds down to 30, is not going to change the fact you are basically looking at a download bar between items.  When your making a multi part item like armor with all the sub componentes, your still waiting for the bar more than you are doing anything active. 

When things get to factories and times are in 10's of minutes or greater, then maybe it would be worth it. I really hope that time looking at a loading bar is ripped out from personal crafting, even if it is needed to manage the thrall production lines or BP usage.

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I think the problem is that the times used now are basically there to just annoy the crafter. Not fast enough to be ignored and not too long to feel meaningful, they really only seems there to get in the way.

I would like to suggest that:

A- If the crafting time is staying move it to the final combine. No times when making the pomel, blade, guard or the likes, only when turning everything into a sword. IMO it is better (AKA less annoying) to bundle the whole wait at once and allow player to go do other stuff. And it would change nothing balance wise.

PS.: Can someone bring numbers to this? How many times does a timer appear when crafting a item like a sword? What is the total time consumed?

B- Allow for items to be made while another is being completed (In the above style). Could even be a crafting table quality thing.  The higher its quality  the more items you can have being made in the background.

C- Kinda unrelated but also falls in the wasting time area. Try to decrease the number of panels and clicks when crafting. The most pronounced one would be to add a ''send item directly to inventory' checkbox to skip the final and ( useless 99.99999%) take panel. I think the naming panel could also be optional, but I don't remember if there was another information with it.

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Did you think about the possibility to craft better crafting stations?

If you use better ressources for other items their Quality Level is rising, but

if you use better ressources for crafting stations you will waste them.

How about a ressource combination for crafting time or experimentation success? 

 

If this idea is already mentioned pls ignore it.

Edited by Dazwi

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On 6/27/2018 at 5:30 PM, killerkat said:

Yes, however I am trying to stick to mechanics I plan on using in game.  Yes I could simply skill into a crafter and craft all the ore into something.  Or skill into a merchant and sell it.  However that is not my intent in game.  

I highly recommend never doing  this when testing a game, because extra tools are provided specifically to offset the lack of things that will be in the finished game. Like lockable containers.

As a general rule, if there's a neat bug-looking trick that can be used - but not exploitatively - to mimic convenience features like boxes, odds are that it was either A: added intentionally for that exact purpose, or B: added by accident, but left in by the developers because either 1. it is a low priority fix, 2. because it makes testing easier, or 3. both of the above.

This is pre-alpha testing. Use every edge you can if it makes it easier for you to help the dev team finish the game faster. There is no shame in it - the primary purpose for opening the game up this early in development is for us to break it.

Edit: all of the above, and also, it's a waste of your time to stick to mechanics you plan to use in the finished product, because odds are none of the things under that umbrella will BE in the finished game. At least not in anything resembling the form you've been using them in.

Example: all of the storage mechanisms that exist in the game right now.

Re-edit: and while I do understand that you're saying that you don't plan to test crafting because you don't plan to craft once the game goes live, and that is fine, that is double the reason to use whatever extra tools are available to you, because the only thing that will definitely persist between today and whatever iteration of this game is the one that makes it to launch day is that you will need to rely on other people, and there's no reason not to start by filling up volunteer corpses with rocks. That is my favorite sentence fragment of the ever.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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That said, having now read most of the rest of this thread, it sounds like you've already got the "work with other people" thing down, so maybe [half an hour later] ...I had a suggestion for possible fixes to the crafting system, but my housemates got home a day early and now I forgot.

Oh well. I'll edit this if I remember what I was typing.

Edit: ooh! maybe a thing!

So..a thought or two, combining bits and pieces of other peoples' ideas.

Moving all the crafting timers to the final combine seems good, even though it kind of destroys the idea of a crafter who specializes in making bombass sword hilts, and just the hilts. I like that idea in theory, but in practice I'm not sure if the game's population will be large enough to support it, or that even if it ends up being so, that this will be an appealing option for enough people to sustain such a granular market.

Enabling skilled crafters to minimize or nullify the crafting timers for lower-quality gear, giving them a way to rapidly clear stockpiles of low-quality materials while also providing PvPers with disposable gear to use on suicide runs or for dueling or other endeavors likely to waste durability. Maybe reducing the experience return for throwing garbage-quality gear into a fire if it was crafted by someone whose skill was this high could allow this to be used without making it possible for master crafters to speedrun new vessels up to level cap. Like, have the experience reward correspond not to the quality of the gear directly, but the amount of effort it represents (at least, lore-wise), so that a low-quality sword that a master swordcrafter bangs out in 15 seconds is worth less experience to them than the exact same sword would be for a less skilled crafter? Dunno how hard that is to code, or how relevant a problem that is to circumvent, but if that's a problem, then..maybe it's a solution.

I think I had something else. Will maybe remember tomorrow.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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On 6/28/2018 at 6:24 PM, Pann said:

I sent Blair a note requesting that he takes a look at this thread. Something I didn't see mentioned -- and maybe it's here and I missed it -- are the skills that will speed up crafting time. Is the consensus that they aren't worth burning skill points to train at all or that even after you've max trained them you're still not able to craft as quickly as you'd like?

Both, basically.

Hand crafting timers aren't long enough that discounting them feels valuable, but are long enough they feel like an annoying impediment. 2 minutes isn't long enough to go do something else, and cutting it down to 30 seconds isn't enough to a reduction to make you less annoyed at the thumb twiddling.

They feel like they're there just to slow down the process of crafting rather than as a legitimate barrier to crafting that you want to mitigate.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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1 hour ago, goose said:

I highly recommend never doing...

As a general rule, if there's a neat bug-looking trick that can be used - but not exploitatively -.

This is pre-alpha testing. Use every edge you can if it makes it easier for you to help the dev team finish the game faster. There is no shame in it - the primary purpose for opening the game up this early in development is for us to break it.

Edit: all of the above, and also, it's a waste of your time to stick to mechanics you plan to use in the finished product, because odds are none of the things under that umbrella will BE in the finished game. At least not in anything resembling the form you've been using them in.

Example: all of the storage mechanisms that exist in the game right now.

Re-edit: and while I do understand that you're saying that you don't plan to test crafting because you don't plan to craft once the game goes live, and that is fine, that is double the reason to use whatever extra tools are available to you, because the only thing that will definitely persist between today and whatever iteration of this game is the one that makes it to launch day is that you will need to rely on other people, and there's no reason not to start by filling up volunteer corpses with rocks. That is my favorite sentence fragment of the ever.

That is you opinion, and mine differs.

Bugs in my opinion are exploits, whether low priority or otherwise, to me it's an exploit so refrain from doing it.

And I believe that things are far enough along that the things I am testing, which are the things I care about mostly, are going to be in the finished product and resemble the intentions of the designers.  Is there work to be done and things to be change, yes.  But I do not think they will be so different that the things I enjoy are going to make the unenjoyable.  I test the parts that I plan on playing, and I test the crap out of them and give feedback.

But me throwing out common ore by the hundreds is minor to the outcome of the game design.  I only said that to prove a point in my statement about having excess where he was saying there wasn't going to be any.  Come live the guild I'm in will have 5 times as many people if not more activly playing, so I am sure I will not be dumping or selling ore as I am atm.

But I understand your position and have nothing against it.  It's just not my style so don't.  But have nothing wrong with those that do.  As we all test in our own ways.


Killerkat

support expert

www.infernalgamers.com

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34 minutes ago, killerkat said:

That is you opinion, and mine differs.

Bugs in my opinion are exploits, whether low priority or otherwise, to me it's an exploit so refrain from doing it.

And I believe that things are far enough along that the things I am testing, which are the things I care about mostly, are going to be in the finished product and resemble the intentions of the designers.  Is there work to be done and things to be change, yes.  But I do not think they will be so different that the things I enjoy are going to make the unenjoyable.  I test the parts that I plan on playing, and I test the crap out of them and give feedback.

But me throwing out common ore by the hundreds is minor to the outcome of the game design.  I only said that to prove a point in my statement about having excess where he was saying there wasn't going to be any.  Come live the guild I'm in will have 5 times as many people if not more activly playing, so I am sure I will not be dumping or selling ore as I am atm.

But I understand your position and have nothing against it.  It's just not my style so don't.  But have nothing wrong with those that do.  As we all test in our own ways.

I mean, the way I test is by logging in 2-3 times a month to see what's different, because I don't like testing. I've done it for a paycheck, I've done it for free, and ...I don't do it for fun in either case, 'cause I don't..find it...fun.

At the end of the day, feedback like yours is good, and more of it is more good, so I don't mean to seem like I'm poorly made socksting on your opinion - I am not. Just saying that pre-alpha often benefits from a shift in mentality that, anywhere else, might be considered detrimental to the gameplay experience. But it isn't my opinion that pre-alpha testing is more about how to break the game than how to optimize it, just so we're clear. Until pre-alpha ends, every new patch is a chance for everything to break, because pre-alpha is building the bricks and the foundation that will be used to construct a house, and sometimes the bricks come out round and no one is quite sure why.

The more round bricks you can ensure come out brick-shaped before you need to start layering them on top of one another, the fewer bricks will need to be taken back out later on. Best analogy I can come up with.

But every little (or large, from the sound of it) bit helps, and like you say, we all test in our own ways. :)

Edit: hmm. in retrospect, I guess it is kind of my opinion that pre-alpha testing is "MORE" about breaking the game than about optimizing it. honestly, you're laying the foundation to do both in roughly equal measure, so..I might be putting more emphasis on the part of that equation that I got paid to deal with. coders optimize; game testers break. neither part is necessarily more important than the other, but only one of them requires someone know how to talk to Unity.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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