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Blacksmithing questions


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Hi,

I've been trying to dig a bit deeper into a good understanding of crafting and ended up with some questions and some (possible) feedback. I apologize if any of these questions have been answered before, I couldn't find any clear sources on it.

First of all, here are the assumptions I'm working with based on my ingame experimentation (apologies for the length):

Base crafting stats

I believe the three different crafting stats have a baseline value that holds true for any character that has zero skillpoints and zero stats.

Assembly skill: 4.00

Experimentation skill: 0.00

Experimentation points: 1.80

Character stat influences

Assembly skill is affected by +strength.

1 str = 0.0335 assembly skill

Experimentation skill is affected by +intellect

1 int = 0.05 experimentation skill

Experimentation points are also affected by +strength

1 str = 0.0135 experimentation points

This seems to hold true for other crafting professions as well (based on my limited testing) although the stat affecting the skill may differ (e.g. dexterity for leatherworking)

Max + crafting skill from skill trees

The basic crafting track gives a maximum of:

+5 Assembly skill

+0 Experimentation skill

+0 Experimentation points

The blacksmithing crafting track gives a maximum of:

+75 Assembly skill

+65 Experimentation skill

+8 Experimentation points

(+15 speed, but not relevant for this topic)

The optional racial track (e.g. 'mankind' or 'wood elf') gives a maximum of:

+10 assembly skill

+5 experimentation skill

+0 experimentation points

(+5 speed)

Crafting skillcaps

The crafting skill caps are all 100, except for experimentation points which caps out at 20. As I have not obtained a crafted vessel yet, I'm unaware of this influences those caps (apart from having higher character stats which would push the skills themselves higher).

Crafting leadership track

I do not have this skill unlocked, but according to the tooltips the skills only grant bonus points for Basic crafting, I'm assuming it does not (currently) affect specialist crafting skills.

Item difficulty and crafting success

It appears that the base chance to craft an item (before skills) is simply 100% - the item difficulty. Then the skill is added back on. So for example a 'mail coif' which has a difficulty of 35 for a character with 10.00 blacksmithing assembly skill would be 100-35+10 = 75% chance to craft.

I have not observed an increase in difficulty using a higher quality material (e.g. 'uncommon').

There seems to be a hard success chance cap of 97%.

I have not been able to test if 'optional' items (e.g. 'hunger shards') add to difficulty, as I don't have any.

The highest difficulty blacksmith recipe I've seen has a difficulty of 35. There are only a few recipes I'm missing currently (from the 'Research Mastery' pips), they might have a bit more difficulty but I don't know right now.

Experimentation succes and pips

For experimentation pips it seems the number is always rounded down. Having 2.8 pips on the sheet I get 2 pips.

I am unclear on how Experimentation success skill affects the success rate. Crafting a difficulty 5 item with 14 experimentation skill while having two pips results with both pips equalling 50% risk. Another item with difficulty 25 while having 11 experimentation skill results in having the same 50/50 ratio. I'm unclear on how this works.

Questions

Now that my assumptions about the inner workings are out of the way on to the questions.

1. The Assembly skill cap is 100. Even when I combine the points in the basic, blacksmith and racial track I end up with 90 assembly skill requiring another 10 skill, which equals 299 strength. (in 5.7 it seems the base cap for a stat will be 250 with racial bonuses affected this positively or negatively). However, with the way the success chance seems to work, what's the point in investing all these points? Crafting a 35 difficulty item and assuming the 97% chance hard cap I would only ever require a total of 32 assembly skill to hit the cap. Do points above that help me at all?

2. Should pips be always rounded down? It forces you to either 'go big or go home'?

3. How does experimentation success chance work actually work?

4. Is there anything that affects the base difficulty of an item? Is there an intention for item rarity to affect it?

5. Unrelated bonus question: Why are two handed weapon recipes behind the one handed recipes? I feel they should be lateral moves as they aren't different in 'strength' but simply dependant on which class can wield what.

 

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Basic crafting stats do add to advanced crafting. For experimentation, it is 2 to 1. The Leadership buff gives 10 basic experimentation and this results in 5 Blacksmithing (or any other profession) experimentation. I believe the Assembly is also a 2 to 1 ratio. For the pips, it's a 4 to 1 ratio. Leadership gives 2 basic pips and that gives .5 advanced pips.

Assembly works on a sliding scale, depending on the quality of the resources you use. Higher quality resources will increase the difficulty, though I don't know the exact math involved in the calculation. There is a hard cap on assembly success chance, though for some recipes it is set to 98%.

The Risk factor on experimentation is based on the total number of pips you have. There are some issues with this that have been discussed in this forum, but that's how it currently works. So if you have 2 pips, spending 1 is 50% risk. If you have 10 pips, spending 5 is 50% risk. The reason this is significant is because at 50% risk, you get a bonus. You have less of a chance of getting a good result, but if you do, the results will be better than if you had done 1 pip at a time.

1. As I mentioned, there is a sliding scale in assembly based on the quality of the resources. If you want to have a high chance of assembling epic and legendary quality stuff, you'll want to raise your assembly stat. That said, I wouldn't worry about making stuff with higher than common quality until you've gotten further into the skill tree. The only difference between common and high quality resources is that the higher qualities give you more experimentation slots per line. So for example, let's say you are crafting an item that allows you to experiment on Sheen and Durability. With a poor or common item, you will be able to spend up to 6 pips on each line. With an uncommon quality item, you will be able to spend up to 7 on each line. At legendary, it's 10 per line. So if you don't have a lot of pips, it really isn't worth your while to use higher quality resources.

Common gives higher base stats than poor. If you make a poor metal bar with crit chance and attack power, it will have .08 crit chance and 4 attack power before experimentation. A common quality bar will have .1 crit chance and 5 AP. All qualities above common have the same base as common.

There is also a thing called bootstrapping, which means you can mix resource quality and sometimes get a better result. For example, let's say you use 6 common ore and 3 uncommon ore to make a metal bar. There is a chance that the end result will be uncommon. Obviously if you get a flawed assembly, then the item will lose a level of quality and you won't be able to experiment on it.

2. There are issues with the system, but the rounding isn't a big deal. The real issue is that an odd number of pips is not desirable due to the way the 50% bonus works. If I have 10 pips, I can try for the 50% bonus twice. If I have 11 pips, I can only try for it once.

3. I don't know the math behind it. I'm up to 92 blacksmithing experimentation with the leadership buff. If I craft a metal bar, which is difficulty 5, and do 1 pip at a time, I'm going to get an Amazing or Great on pretty much every roll. However, if I go for the 50% bonus, I'm still likely to get a moderate success on a good number of rolls.

4. As I said, the quality of the resources affects the success chance on assembly. The quality does not affect your success chance on experimentation.

5. I'm not sure. They only recently moved the recipes to those skill nodes. Previously we unlocked all the recipes once we put 1 pip into the first skill node in the tree. I'm sure things will get moved around more in the future.

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Thanks for the reply, that was a very informative read!

I only have materials up to uncommon, so that's what I tested with. The UI did not show an increase in difficulty when I put those into the recipe (I did not click assemble). Is it not visible or does it only work for materials above uncommon?

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Using uncommon should alter the difficulty compared to using common. I'm not sure how high your blacksmithing is. It could be that there is a point at which it won't go lower.

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19 hours ago, Arkade said:

Basic crafting stats do add to advanced crafting. For experimentation, it is 2 to 1. The Leadership buff gives 10 basic experimentation and this results in 5 Blacksmithing (or any other profession) experimentation. I believe the Assembly is also a 2 to 1 ratio. For the pips, it's a 4 to 1 ratio. Leadership gives 2 basic pips and that gives .5 advanced pips.

I have another question now that I've looked at it some more. :)

Does this only apply to the basic skills given by the leadership skill? For instance, I currently have (native 20 Crafting Basics assembly skill and 7.2 Crafting Basics Experimentation Points. However, when I try to craft something with blacksmithing - according to the crafting UI feedback - it  is calculating my chances and pips purely based on my blacksmithing stats. I have 30.4 BS Assembly, 2.8 BS Exp. Points, when I craft a difficulty 35 item it shows I have 95.4% success chance and when I craft it succesfully I get two experimentation pips to play with.

I'm playing by myself, so I can't test the leadership skill effects sadly.

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No, all of your basic stats contribute to your blacksmithing. The numbers are already factored into your blacksmithing stats. That 30.4 assembly is a combination of your basic assembly (at a 2 to 1 ratio, I think), your training in blacksmithing assembly, your strength and any gear you are wearing that gives you blacksmithing assembly.

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6 minutes ago, Arkade said:

No, all of your basic stats contribute to your blacksmithing. The numbers are already factored into your blacksmithing stats. That 30.4 assembly is a combination of your basic assembly (at a 2 to 1 ratio, I think), your training in blacksmithing assembly, your strength and any gear you are wearing that gives you blacksmithing assembly.

Doh. I think I just realised where I went wrong. I originally said:

Quote

Base crafting stats

I believe the three different crafting stats have a baseline value that holds true for any character that has zero skillpoints and zero stats.

Assembly skill: 4.00

Experimentation skill: 0.00

Experimentation points: 1.80

It seems that was a faulty assumption. It's more likely to be:

20 (my base assembly) / 5 = 4

7.2 (my Base Exp Pips) / 4 = 1.8

Thanks again! :)

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