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Tinnis

community healer and group thoughts?

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support players [or generally from those running in groups]: how do you feel about:

  • healer group role and survivability [and susceptibility to focus fire]
  • versus current levels of healing vs damage and armor/health inflation. [and the current game of single target whack a mole focus]
  • about being a solo healer in a group of 6? is at least two healers mandatory?
  • whether this will be impacted by the "fix" of group sizes from 6 back down to 5?
  • cleric vs druid? templar? surging spirit on melees? DPS/tank survivability?
  • gearing, skill and stat options?
  • racial choices for healers?
  • disicpline choice for healers?
    • [e.g. the "heal" ones versus other support or utility ones]
  • giant cooldowns, limited slots?
  • allied heals versus group heals versus self heals? auto target vs aim
  • using powers in forts/keeps and elevated areas
  • general "non healing" choices or options on support classes.
    • [debate: sickle or damage focused dual tray druid vs a divine order cleric] state of "nature's avatar" gameplay?
  • base kits vs discipline kits
    • [bearing in mind future gated access of discs. and things like weapon disciplines requiring full advanced weapons to be crafted. and how advanced weapons like staves are gated by multiple deep skill requirements]

 

EDIT:

thoughts on anti healing? [e.g. 2500 assassin toxin, plaguelord and expose effects]

thoughts on "resource restore effects" cleric group illuminate versus druid yellow orbs

thoughts on soulpower generation? [druid is harder to sustain compared to cleric]

thoughts on "non healing" powers such as barriers, buffs and debuffs

thoughts on "miracle" [stacking!] versus "essence scram"

Edited by Tinnis

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One thing I don't tlike is being limited to throwing hammer only. Mudman + Ult rercharge = Bad. There is no real fix for it coming though as I see. In shadowbane you had throwing hammers, axes and daggers (crush/slash/pierce). Hopefully... eventually... I would like to see more damage types. 

As of right now, I think 2 clerics are good in a 6 man. At 5 that may be a bit heavy. It'll be a bit too soon to judge though really. Once vessels become transferrable and runes are no longer disposable would be the best time to answer that question.


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32 minutes ago, Armegeddon said:

One thing I don't tlike is being limited to throwing hammer only. 

This is my biggest irk for healing classes. I really wish weapon discs had a blood/water component to them that shifted the rune from damage to healing and opened up weapon discs for healers (imagine a bow healing disc with LMBs that healed allies!) 

Overall though, i think healers are pretty strong. Part of me feels 1 healer in a 5 man will be tough, but 2 healers in a 5 man will be a lot so...will have to see how it plays out. Ive been able to solo heal 5 mans in the past but not sure about now with damage creep and all that good stuff

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30 minutes ago, Jjusticar said:

Part of me feels 1 healer in a 5 man will be tough, but 2 healers in a 5 man will be a lot so...will have to see how it plays out. Ive been able to solo heal 5 mans in the past but not sure about now with damage creep and all that good stuff

the difference between being the solo healer versus a minimum of dual healer in the current 6 man is night and day.

Edited by Tinnis

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I would love to see Field Surgeon go away. It's not a choice it's a requirement. It completely removes the need pay attention to or manage your mana as a resource. Inhibits build diversity and makes fights take very long. It is a cool disc but it needs to be fighter/rogue only or change the passive.

Id love to see healers get to choose different styles of heals. Hot, aoe, single target but for mana to be an issue.


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11 minutes ago, Yoink said:

I would love to see Field Surgeon go away. It's not a choice it's a requirement. It completely removes the need pay attention to or manage your mana as a resource. Inhibits build diversity and makes fights take very long. It is a cool disc but it needs to be fighter/rogue only or change the passive.

Id love to see healers get to choose different styles of heals. Hot, aoe, single target but for mana to be an issue.

even without noble purpose a cleric's mana management is next to negligible - assuming they are keeping an eye on their hunger meter.

and yea many of the heal discs are "auto pick" over other heal or support/utility options sadly.

Edited by Tinnis

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Healing feels alright atm, pretty impactful, tho I suppose the scaling vs. damage could use a little work. Right now you kinda have to load up with healers. I wouldn't mind a few different support options tho (like a reliable cleanse debuffs which works on the majority of debuffs. Also wouldn't mi mind more anti-healing / buff stripping).

I'd like to see less off healing on classes that dont fall under the support banner, but I'm not against giving other forms of group utility.

Edit: I'd like to see a lot of the functionality of field surgeon built into either the cleric or druid (or both). I'd like to see rescue get a rework, instead of an immunity to death, have it "rescue" the target by pulling them to the healer and healing them (ie. like FFXIV).

Edited by Helix

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4 hours ago, Tinnis said:

support players [or generally from those running in groups]: how do you feel about:

  • healer group role and survivability [and susceptibility to focus fire]
  • versus current levels of healing vs damage and armor/health inflation. [and the current game of single target whack a mole focus]
  • about being a solo healer in a group of 6? is at least two healers mandatory?
  • whether this will be impacted by the "fix" of group sizes from 6 back down to 5?
  • cleric vs druid? templar? surging spirit on melees? DPS/tank survivability?
  • gearing, skill and stat options?
  • racial choices for healers?
  • disicpline choice for healers?
    • [e.g. the "heal" ones versus other support or utility ones]
  • giant cooldowns, limited slots?
  • allied heals versus group heals versus self heals? auto target vs aim
  • using powers in forts/keeps and elevated areas
  • general "non healing" choices or options on support classes.
    • [debate: sickle or damage focused dual tray druid vs a divine order cleric] state of "nature's avatar" gameplay?
  • base kits vs discipline kits
    • [bearing in mind future gated access of discs. and things like weapon disciplines requiring full advanced weapons to be crafted. and how advanced weapons like staves are gated by multiple deep skill requirements]

1.  Support Power does not scale like Attack Power does so as the campaigns legthen and gear gets better offensive options scale much better than defensive and healing options.  Not sure if this is intended. 

2.  Solo healing a group of 6 versus another group of 6 is rough but it's doable, barely.  The bugged group size is 6 is far preferable to 5.  I'd rather it be higher than both but that's my preference.  If people decide to run two healers in 5 man groups that's going to force 40% of the damn population to play 2 classes for group meta and that's not worth it imo.  Larger group size allows more flexibility in comp instead of forcing redundancy in class across groups.

3.  Druids feel like half a healer in buildings.  Can't reliably aim ground targeted spells in builds so clerics lose one base spell too. 

4.  Con and Spirit scale at such low low figures it feels like I don't scale at all with them. 

5.  Elkin, Human, HG are all about the same imo for current races.  Str doesn't do much for clerics.  Centaurs simply have too much for us to slot, it basically all goes to waste since I'll need to slot so many things from cleric and discs anyways.  The only race with stats we might want is stoneborn  (con/spr) and that knockdownme down to get better healing passive is probably going to be required since the other races don't offer much to cleric.  All the races have active abilities but there's no way I can slot them plus all the heals I need in addition to holy /vengeance aura. 

5.  Limited slots is the name of the game.  Once discs aren't so easily swapped and choices become more meaningful we will see how it plays out.  Cd's are fine.

6.  I have no issue healing people outside of the group or inside of the group.

7.  Buildings custard ground targeted spells so custard them. 

8.  Druid is built with a versatile kit in mind and can do multiple things.  Cleric can do one thing well and it's obvious from the tool kit.  As a healing cleric I like the base tool kit.  There isn't much for single target healing but there's enough aoe that I can single target and then just over-heal the people around them.  Cleric also has two CC abilities built in so if that's something you are looking to do it has two excellent ones built in.  The block works great.  I'm sure there's a few 1v1 dps cleric builds out there but they are screwed with only ever having one damage type and not many baseline dps options.

9A.  Field Surgeon is required.  It's the only healing disc where every single ability from it is slotted.  An aoe heal that removes all dots, yes please.  A passive that makes my mana easier to manage, I'll take that.  A rescue, I'd be a fool if I don't have at least one.  6.25% added to my healing mod, suuuuure why not.  Pixie has nice abilities and then a passive that's so bad its laughable.  It's a disc that buffs chain heal spells that has no chain heal spells so I can only get one chain heal spell from another discipline but I could never take that other disc because Field Surgeon is required.  Niaad is okay but the healing ball that moves through allies is bad to use because its channeled and then it doesn't heal for much.  It's aoe is okay but its a chain heal and I need pixie for that work out well.  It's passive will be better once there is a lot of frost damage going out.   Friar is best used for its movement speed buff.  I don't see enough fessors for me to worry about being immune to sin, the bleed armor is okay, the chain heal from it isn't bad but in order to chain heal I need a disc I cannot slot because field surgeon is required.  The passive from it gives support power when you heal, mana when your low but both give very little.  The personal heal modifier from passive is also lackluster when compared to the other 6.25% healing mods I get from the other healing dics.  Rescues are so absolutely strong and there is a disc with an aoe rescue that also gives damage and makes people essentially immune to slows.  In large immobile fights (defending forts, defending trees of life)it is very likely that ACE has decided my build for me:  Standard Bearer / Field Surgeon.

9B.  Minor discs are actually okay.  There are enough viable minors that I have choices to make and it feels like it's my choice.  This doesn't mean there aren't some truly worthless minors out there but there are enough decent ones where I can just ignore the bad ones.  Edit:  there are few “offensive” minors that buff healing or damage for a cleric.  They are all utility and defensive.  100 support power/attack power for matching sets isn’t nearly as good as me wearing a plate chest and then leather or mail off pieces for increased healing mod. 

9C.  Weapon master runes for cleric might as well not exist.  We do one type of damage if we decide to go damage and all of the support for that is nonexistent.  There is no healing mastery rune so I don't have to worry about making that choice.  I'm still not sure if that's intentional or not. 

9D.  Damage scales like its Usain Bolt and healing scales like Tark chasing a hotdog vendor so that forces me to consider one of my runes not be healing and instead defensive.  Group size scaling impacts that choice too since I know I won't be getting rescued since I cannot rescue myself if I'm the only healer in my group.  Having me take a defensive rune and a healing rune is great besides the fact that now my healing is scaling even less behind damage so I probably just killed a party member so I could live instead.  Honestly not being forced to double up on healing runes because the meta requires it would be ideal. 

In summation, there isn't much choice for the cleric meta right now.  Con and Spirit scale poorly while dex, str and weapon crafting scale excellently for damage.  The dex fix for armor might slow some of the damage down (which would be nice) but I won't know for sure if that's noticeable till the 5.7 patch.  Some of the discs have wonky abilities not really on par with the better discipline so adjust the weaker discs to be more on par with field surgeon and maybe alter field surgeon a little (don't custard smash it with a hammer though).  Race doesn't feel like it matters. 

 

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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3 hours ago, Tinnis said:

support players [or generally from those running in groups]: how do you feel about:

  • healer group role and survivability [and susceptibility to focus fire]
    • Healers have some of the best survivability in game right now.  Expose Punish ruins this though.  Expose punish should be removed completely from the game IMO.  While they are a prime target for focus fire, it's up to your group to peel for you or put their bodies between you and the dmg.  Healers shouldn't be able to just stand there and take all the dmg.  Protecting you healer is a group effort.
  • versus current levels of healing vs damage and armor/health inflation. [and the current game of single target whack a mole focus]
    • With the removal of more than half of the armour penetration and the reduction in overall AP we get from gear/weapons things are feeling much better.  DMG doesn't super out scale healing anymore IMO.
  • about being a solo healer in a group of 6? is at least two healers mandatory?
    • Two healers is always better than one.
  • whether this will be impacted by the "fix" of group sizes from 6 back down to 5?
    • I for one will like the smaller group sizes, it will really make you think about how to build your group.
  • cleric vs druid? templar? surging spirit on melees? DPS/tank survivability?
    • Cleric needs more aimed heals.... Illuminate and both the cleric Ult and Druid Ult are pretty dumb, no brain heals.  Cleric has a much easier time of keeping a whole group up compared to druid.  Illuminate vs Wisp or Healing Rain.... Illuminate will not miss unless you are more than 30m away from your healer.... Wisp and rain heal for about the same as illuminate, can completely miss and have a 5m radius.
  • gearing, skill and stat options?
    • Still not a fan from a while when they change the crafting components to only have a few stats we can choose from vs buffing the poorly made socks stats no one used.  There are not a whole lot of options anymore as DPS or tank either.
  • racial choices for healers?
    • Lots of good choices.  There is a reason or two to pick almost all the races for healers.
  • disicpline choice for healers?
    • [e.g. the "heal" ones versus other support or utility ones]
      • Give healers more options for minors.  You are pretty much required to wear defensive minors as a healer and nothing to really increase healing potential.
  • giant cooldowns, limited slots?
    • If the power of the ability warrants a long CD, so be it.  Rescue is a prime example.  Huge burst, Instant Cast, long CD.
  • allied heals versus group heals versus self heals? auto target vs aim
    • Need more self heals.. This is the reason why running 2 healers is almost required, so you have a second healer to help keep up your first healer.  I for one would like to see less heals that work outside of group.
  • using powers in forts/keeps and elevated areas
    • FIX PLZ. This has been an issue since we started BW 2 years ago.
  • general "non healing" choices or options on support classes.
    • [debate: sickle or damage focused dual tray druid vs a divine order cleric] state of "nature's avatar" gameplay?
      • Offensive Cleric Ult.. lul... better damage than most DPS classes can do in AoE. Sickle tickles.
  • base kits vs discipline kits
    • [bearing in mind future gated access of discs. and things like weapon disciplines requiring full advanced weapons to be crafted. and how advanced weapons like staves are gated by multiple deep skill requirements]
      • Limp wrist base kit fighting for probably 2 months after launch. lol.

 

Edited by Destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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@mandalore <- Basically what he said, though minor correction that both Druid and Cleric do have base-kit chain heals (the Cleric healing well chain-heals to achieve the AoE effect), and a reminder that Punch Drunk's removal will nerf Rescue and other survivability spells. On a side note I'd also like to see debuffs get colour coding to make them easier to distinguish - the icons can be rather hard to distinguish between in the heat of the moment.

 

@Tinnis So, Field Surgeon seems to be crowding out the healing options, and the only fixes I see for that are removing it (/cry), nerfing it until it's useless (/snore) or splitting it across multiple disciplines (/thinking). One of the first two would probably be easier but I actually prefer the latter option... Since everyone else has spoken well for me, this brainstorm will be my contribution.

 

Field Surgeon:

Firstly, and most importantly... Burn this combination of spells with fire and rework this discipline from the ground up at some future time. I have an idea for a reimagining of the Discipline, which I'll do once I've gone through the other Discs... Anyway, this Discipline will only ever be OP or useless, and if you put any one of the following Field Surgeon's spells as-is on any of the current healing Disciplines, that Discipline would instantly be a must-have.

  1. Noble Purpose: By far the best, most reliable, and mindless resource management tool in the game. The only other healer-focused resource management tool is the Friar passive, and it's in second place for both effectiveness and reliability by a long, long shot. The ability to heal non-stop forever should also be something that you have to spec into somewhat, it can't be on a Discipline that is already mandatory for healers anyway.
  2. Purgative: A group-wide all-encompassing DoT cleanse on a medium cooldown is already strong, but it's also the only cleanse that affects others. Preventing damage is always more powerful than trying to prevent it, and if that ability is available it's a must-have - spreading cleanses out over multiple Disciplines creates build diversity (and weaknesses). I also think we could do with adding more finesse to both executing cleanses and diversity in which cleanse spells deal with which DoT's, but the most important takeaway is that one Disc can't hold a monopoly on cleanses.
  3. Rescue: surprisingly enough might be the exception here, given the aforementioned death of Punch Drunk... If you can find a place for it. To me it doesn't make sense on any Discipline except Standard Bearer, and no matter what that's too potent of a combination! For now I'd recommend finding this spell a completely new set of friends or retiring it.

 

This is how I would change up the healing Disciplines, if such power were granted to me:

 

Bard:

Not typically thought of as a healing Discipline, but it does have a healing song (which sucks and needs replacing)... Why not make it a "one-and-done" song like Consonant Chains, some kind of ray-cast or pulse heal on a 10 or so second CD? That wouldn't change the fact that you can't initiate Twisting from Survival tray, but I'm pretty sure that restriction is intentional. Also Song of Speed should obey Pathfinding :angry:

 

Dryad:

Make the orb refund apply to the orbs you gain from the Discipline. This Disc is a potentially strong self-healing and tight-spaces tool, but the in-built orbs cost too much.

 

Friar:

Reduce the duration and recheck for the Blessings buff to 10 seconds. The buffs are too unreliable (and last too long if you get the wrong one)

Replace the Chain Heal with Rehabilitation from Field Surgeon (see "Pixie"), remove the Stamina scaling and increase SP scaling to compensate.

Change Benediction to a (Bleed?) cleanse when it's first cast (and if that's too strong nerf/remove the buff it grants to compensate).

 

Naiad:

I honestly think this Disc is fine, at least right now, though it is one spell shy of the normal 4-spell budget that most Disciplines have... An (Elemental?) DoT cleanse would fit here nicely.

 

Pixie:

Give this one the Chain Heal - it'll give it that 4th power, and an actual heal - one that even synergises with the passive. Nice!

Reduce the healing bonus on Pixie Dust to compensate.

 

Standard Bearer:

No more Punch Drunk makes this one a fair bit weaker, but how much so is hard to tell... The limitation of not being able to be healed above a certain % of Health is also often underestimated, especially if there is a way to apply heavy burst to an already weakened target. Although this Disc is also one spell short (one and a half if you count the damage conversion part of Banner of Storms) it's a volatile Discipline, so it'd be best to reserve judgement until everything else settles.

 

 

 

Messiah, AKA Field Surgeon 2.0:

  1. X% Low Health Healing Bonus (yes it's a stat)
  2. Rescue - the only thing left unchanged from the old Discipline.
  3. Cybele's Radiance (Active) Cleanses (Organic?) DoTs.
  4. Noble Purpose (reworked)(Active): Heal a single allied target for a small/moderate amount and grant them 30% Movement Speed for a short time. Medium CD (less than 30s).

 

As for giving healers a way to spec into forever-heal in the short-term, you could simply turn Noble Purpose into a Minor Discipline (though I'd rather see resource management require more active input)... At least having this ability take up a power slot (rather than come free with one) might help balance out the power budget. I also like the idea of changing DoT cleanses so that they restore resource to the caster per target cleansed, instead of giving the target a small heal.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts... Sorry if it's a slog, but I'm only capable of either writing in single lines or in pages :P 

 

TL;DR Field Surgeon is the worst band in the history of Crowfall, and it's about time they break up.

Edited by Xarrayne

:^)

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Hi. I play bard cleric a lot.

Twisting needs a buff. Although it is only a minor, it is a minor that requires a passive slot, requires a specific major to function, requires a non-optional consumption of four separate hotbar keys (out of a potential 10) and is vulnerable to chain CC requiring the entire effect be channeled again at the cost of 10 seconds total cast time (which is again, subject to CC). Twisting should be far more powerful than it is for these reasons. The only application of twisting that feels appropriately powerful at the moment is D'Orion's. Arkyn and Kane need to be at minimum doubled. The regen song is so bad I can't even remember what the twisted version is called. 10% mitigation or 150 AP/SP isn't worth the drawbacks. 20% and 300 respectively would be.

Field Surgeon is silly. Split up its effects, make multiple discs, and add complementary skills around those themes.

Clerics in general need more disc options. Where is my melee weapon option? Where is my Sentinel bomb kit? Where is my healing weapon mastry? Where is my disc that lets me change my auto to a heal?

Cleric CCs need more range. In general, druids are "The DPS healer" and Clerics are "The CC healer" problem is that while I can reliably and intuitively engage my heals within the same range profile, my CCs feel range-stunted. My CCs should easil out-range my heals so I can use them proactively rather than reactively and maintain the range required to stay alive on an already heavily focused target.

Cleric Block needs a buff. It is one of the most unique elements of the class, but I pretty much never use it because it ain't worth using in practical combat. How about extending the heal range and giving me an optional minor to buff those heals at the cost of them costing mana when the effect triggers? How about a minor/passive for refunding my stamina when I heal someone with it since I'm already sacrificing HP? The idea of building a positional tank healer is a great build template that should be viable, but the tools to do so aren't there. I should WANT to build HG or cent clerics that are designed to take hits for my allies via positioning. That's hard to do when they have to literally hug me and impede my ability to move around to position myself.

Blind sucks. It is a status effect that is literally only useful against people who haven't had a few weeks of fights. The "sight bar" makes this effect a non-factor in combat for anyone with even a cursory amount of experience being blinded. Just make the effect cause all outgoing targeted effects to miss or something.

Ground target powers still don't work properly in most places that aren't directly on terrain. My ground AOE is a big part of my kit and not being able to target it properly in forts and sieges (the places where ground effect heals should be most impactful due to the tight spaces) is still a massive problem for both clerics and druids.

Healing discs have boring powers that should be part of class kits. Take root should be a basic part of both Druid and Cleric kits. All of the healing spells feel like they are intended for non-healers. The fact that healers can take them seems silly. They're just more heal buttons that do the same thing I already do. I shouldn't have to feel like I have auto-pick disciplines on any class, and especially not on support classes. The fact that healers can take healing discs that are one of very few ways to get big chunks of that all important healing modifier makes the build options for healers even more restrictive than the extremely short list of other discs. The fact that I feel compelled to take them on a cleric, specifically, because I don't have an autoattack heal makes them feel even worse. I should be able to load myself up with heals as a function of being a healer. I need buttons that do something other than healing. I should feel compelled to consider discs for things other than being a healbot and currently I am not. I already have a very limited bar to place abilities on. Giving naiad heals to Clerics and Dryad heals to Druids at a base level would be fine. "More class skill than you can fit on the bar" should be a given for all classes, but for healers especially. I should be thinking "what else can I do to support my allies with disc powers" not "well I guess I need some disc powers to heal people properly." I should have that ability out of the box and my disc choices should be a question of which heals I want to drop to use disc or class utility or DPS in stead.

I think the culling of group sizes to 5 will be a positive impact to heal versus DPS.

 

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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15 hours ago, mandalore said:

healing scales like Tark chasing a hotdog vendor

I'm pretty sure you put this at the bottom to check out how many people read your wall of text. I did. Very good analysis btw, well done.


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On 6/21/2018 at 6:15 AM, Tinnis said:

thoughts on anti healing? [e.g. 2500 assassin toxin, plaguelord and expose effects]

thoughts on "resource restore effects" cleric group illuminate versus druid yellow orbs

thoughts on soulpower generation? [druid is harder to sustain compared to cleric]

thoughts on "non healing" powers such as barriers, buffs and debuffs

thoughts on "miracle" [stacking!] versus "essence scram"

1.  I don't see very many assassins in group play so I really don't have an informed opinion about it. 

2.  Illuminate is obscenely good for resource return, not the biggest heal for straight HPS but its mana return is significant enough that I could never see not running it. 

3.  Heals don't seem to raise my soul meter at all, which forces me to be wasting mana auto attacking to get my Q.  If I'm wrong here please correct me. 

4a.  Barriers seem to be in a good place.  I have one on my E and 500 hp doesn't seem to be an insurmountable amount for now.  Fixed numbers always make me worry about the future though, how will that 500 scale into late game.  It's almost always better to make everything % based or scale off of appropriate power (support power or health in this instance is my suggestion). 

4b.Twisting as a bard cleric isn't going to let you be much a cleric.  Twisting is excellent in concept but I doubt it will see much play in 5 man groups, is it worth sacrificing a body to?  I pixie's healing increase is nice for a buff.  Runecaster would be good outside of this meta, maybe.  Not too many buffing discs to fool around with and I still assert we are required to run one (FS) and in large fights we should be running (Standard Bearer). 

4c.  Only debuff any healer should be taking would be the  wee one off of pixie, it's good but the CD on it is high and its such a small radius I wonder if its worth it.  I really want to use it though just can't always afford it. 

5.  Miracle heals as much as my rescue but the entire group, restores mana, give me ult benefits.  It's a solid spell, I just have issues charging it (mentioned before in 3.) and valuable when needed.  The Cleric one def feels like it outshines the druid one, imo.


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

4b.Twisting as a bard cleric isn't going to let you be much a cleric.  Twisting is excellent in concept but I doubt it will see much play in 5 man groups, is it worth sacrificing a body to?  I pixie's healing increase is nice for a buff.  Runecaster would be good outside of this meta, maybe.  Not too many buffing discs to fool around with and I still assert we are required to run one (FS) and in large fights we should be running (Standard Bearer). 

I'd like to see bard get a little more interactivity. I agree twisting is a cool concept, but the abilities themselves are pretty boring. Would be cool to see the songs become targeted or aim-based to hit allies and add a little more active gameplay to it.

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Toggle buttons being fire and forget and taking bar slots is weird.  The can't take up passive slots because custard that then.  There really doesn't seem like a place in a 5 man group where a twisting bard is viable (for any class).  Bard, cent auras, cleric auras, leadership all feel like they are an unfinished system: they aren't good enough for passives all the time and they suck as toggled abilities that get shut off every time I am expose/punished, knocked down and stunned.  Not to mention who the custard has the bar slot on a cent cleric to run all the stuff (I've yet to see a cent cleric or notice one at the very min). 

Give your support classes better ways to support.  Give us stronger options that require planning and coordination.  Give us the opportunity to bolster, shield, buff and heal allies in different specs and various ways based of what we need. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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I'm not a fan of the way healing works currently. I'd rather each character have some sort of self-healing ala Guild Wars 2, making support characters a useful and desirable choice for a group comp, but not a hard coded necessity. We don't exactly have firehose healing, but it IS very bursty and absolutely required for group sustain. Discipline choice can skew other types other types of characters such that they get SOME sustain, but not enough that they could fill the "support" role. 

The current system is a quaint throwback to older MMOs, but it's one of those things which ought to have been left in 2003. Instead, I'd like to see a "healing hotkey" with each class having their own unique self-healing/sustain ability. Support classes and disciplines could then be reworked to fill more of a support role and less of a traditional healer role. 

It may be asking too much at this point, but I think it would be more appealing to modern gamers and make the game more interesting and fun.

 

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
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3 minutes ago, soulein said:

I'm not a fan of the way healing works currently. I'd rather each character have some sort of self-healing ala Guild Wars 2, making support characters a useful and desirable choice for a group comp, but not a hard coded necessity. We don't exactly have firehose healing, but it IS very bursty and absolutely required for group sustain. Discipline choice can skew other types other types of characters such that they get SOME sustain, but not enough that they could fill the "support" role. 

The current system is a quaint throwback to older MMOs, but it's one of those things which ought to have been left in 2003. Instead, I'd like to see a "healing hotkey" with each class having their own unique self-healing/sustain ability. Support classes and disciplines could then be reworked to fill more of a support role and less of a traditional healer role. 

It may be asking too much at this point, but I think it would be more appealing to modern gamers and make the game more interesting and fun.

 

eh I hated that aspect of GW2. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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38 minutes ago, soulein said:

I'm not a fan of the way healing works currently. I'd rather each character have some sort of self-healing ala Guild Wars 2, making support characters a useful and desirable choice for a group comp, but not a hard coded necessity. We don't exactly have firehose healing, but it IS very bursty and absolutely required for group sustain. Discipline choice can skew other types other types of characters such that they get SOME sustain, but not enough that they could fill the "support" role. 

The current system is a quaint throwback to older MMOs, but it's one of those things which ought to have been left in 2003. Instead, I'd like to see a "healing hotkey" with each class having their own unique self-healing/sustain ability. Support classes and disciplines could then be reworked to fill more of a support role and less of a traditional healer role. 

It may be asking too much at this point, but I think it would be more appealing to modern gamers and make the game more interesting and fun.

 

 

34 minutes ago, mandalore said:

eh I hated that aspect of GW2. 

I actually quite enjoyed this aspect of it. That being said, some heals were just infinitely better than others which isn't too hard to balance if you just spend some time looking at values. What it does well is open up support classes to being more support than healers, this worked in GW2 because it's combat was way more fast-paced and health bars would move from 10% to full regularly. The damage output required people have their own healing abilities since you simply died too quickly without it, and most PvP teams "support" build had ways to output quite a bit of healing to allies.

I can see it working in Crowfall, but it may bring about a tank meta where you have people taking damage reduction discs and simply not taking enough damage to not be able to sustain themselves. If they are, healers will be stuck healing. 

Imo we just need base classes to be more specialized and fill more specific roles. Having healers is fine but the build options for healers need to be greatly expanded allowing them to actually play a support role with healing abilities in their base kit and give other classes options to be a support role without healing abilities in their basekit. As is, there is no reason to really play a support class because all the classes have everything they need already, there is no hole to fill, which is what support builds do. Everyone has damage, everyone has CC, everyone has survivability. If we tweaked classes to give them more glaring weaknesses and got some better designed support disciplines we would see build diversity flourish i.e; controllers, shielders, buffers, debuffers, etc, etc. All those roles that aren't tank, dps, healer

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