Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Tinnis

community healer and group thoughts?

Recommended Posts

Just now, Jjusticar said:

 

I actually quite enjoyed this aspect of it. That being said, some heals were just infinitely better than others which isn't too hard to balance if you just spend some time looking at values. What it does well is open up support classes to being more support than healers, this worked in GW2 because it's combat was way more fast-paced and health bars would move from 10% to full regularly. The damage output required people have their own healing abilities since you simply died too quickly without it, and most PvP teams "support" build had ways to output quite a bit of healing to allies.

I can see it working in Crowfall, but it may bring about a tank meta where you have people taking damage reduction discs and simply not taking enough damage to not be able to sustain themselves. If they are, healers will be stuck healing. 

Imo we just need base classes to be more specialized and fill more specific roles. Having healers is fine but the build options for healers need to be greatly expanded allowing them to actually play a support role with healing abilities in their base kit and give other classes options to be a support role without healing abilities in their basekit. As is, there is no reason to really play a support class because all the classes have everything they need already, there is no hole to fill, which is what support builds do. Everyone has damage, everyone has CC, everyone has survivability. If we tweaked classes to give them more glaring weaknesses and got some better designed support disciplines we would see build diversity flourish i.e; controllers, shielders, buffers, debuffers, etc, etc. All those roles that aren't tank, dps, healer

It's a little late in the game to change every class with the idea of self healing sustainability and then completely alter every aspect of two classes (life tray druid and cleric), then to alter a handful of discs to support this new combat system, animate it, add new icons, internally test and then have us test every ability while still finishing the rest of the game.   


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mandalore said:

It's a little late in the game to change every class with the idea of self healing sustainability and then completely alter every aspect of two classes (life tray druid and cleric), then to alter a handful of discs to support this new combat system, animate it, add new icons, internally test and then have us test every ability while still finishing the rest of the game.   

I didn't suggest every class get self-healing. I simply explained why it worked in GW2, how it could work in Crowfall and then explained what I actually would prefer to happen.

You simply need to remove some bells and whistles from base kit abilities and alter the attributes on some of the discs to fill in the holes. I don't know why you'd have to completely alter staff druid and cleric. They can keep most all of their base kit, they simply just need support disc options. Like I said, healers are fine they just need more build diversity. 

It's really not that many changes. It just removing all the random CC and debuffs and what not from class base kit abilities. And adding a couple support based discs. Then you don't have classes base kits overloaded and it opens up more roles to be built into. But ya....I guess its changing every single class, completely altering 2 classes, etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

"More class skill than you can fit on the bar" should be a given for all classes, but for healers especially.

+1

i would also love it to be more about support than healing. on paper and thematically something like bard buffs, pixie buff/debuff and the friar buffs are my sort of thing, but practically they fall behind the other purer heal choices. the base support class non healing utility leaves much to be desired as well. 

Edited by Tinnis

caldera_forum_banner_wings.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jjusticar said:

I'd like to see bard get a little more interactivity. I agree twisting is a cool concept, but the abilities themselves are pretty boring. Would be cool to see the songs become targeted or aim-based to hit allies and add a little more active gameplay to it.

I'd like to see the bards songs be cone based (can we even have cone based abiities, cause I thought everything is a square or rectangle), and have ying-yang effects; debuff enemies buff allies and deal damage too. Maybe a future class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

+1

i would also love it to be more about support than healing. on paper and thematically something like bard buffs, pixie buff/debuff and the friar buffs are my sort of thing, but practically they fall behind the other purer heal choices. the base support class non healing utility leaves much to be desired as well. 

Non-healing supporting is far less effective than healing and healing is falling behind damage.  Is this intended?  Who knows...


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mandalore said:

Non-healing supporting is far less effective than healing and healing is falling behind damage.  Is this intended?  Who knows...

fixed value barkskin 172-325 barrier ftw! </s> [cannot scale with gear stats or skills or any passive/power]

i'd love it if it was % max life based at least...

make it have impact and increase the importance of anti barrier dispel effects!

Edited by Tinnis

caldera_forum_banner_wings.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many values on the druid ignore the need for an advanced weapon.  

Giving the early game a lot of strength and just removing it late game.

 


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

Too many values on the druid ignore the need for an advanced weapon.  

Giving the early game a lot of strength and just removing it late game.

 

Healing in a nutshell TBH. It scales super well early and falls off late.

This shouldn't be a problem since in theory late game combatants have more mitigation and DPS to match so the incoming damage should be roughly the same assuming both combatants are similarly geared and skilled. However damage tends to scale way better than healing because of how much easier it is to get more damage on weapons than it is to get more mitigation on gear. Basically the issue here is that armor, in general, grants flat HP as its primary stat increase which is less "sticky" because it has less vectors to be buffed.

HP is buffed by mitigation and... well that's it unless you count barriers. Barriers Have the problem that they're static values though, which naturally makes them fall off in power late game since they don't scale up like HP does with gear.

Damage is buffed by crit chance, crit damage, attack power, and damage multiplier.

Healing, AFAIK is buffed by crit chance, support power, and healing multiplier. Unless I'm mistaken, there's no equivalent to crit damage for healing. Please correct me if this is not the case.

In addition, virtually all attacks can crit, and many attacks even crit automatically. In contrast, there are a ton of heals that can't crit at all.

So at low gear levels, people are doing a lot of noncrit damage, and even when they do crit its relatively weak. At high gear levels, people are doing a lot more crits from damage as opposed to heal, and those crits are doing significantly more damage. This is componded by the fact that in general DPS crits just plain get more chances to crit. A lot of heals are HoTs and the crit seems to be rolled at cast time rather than per tick, while most DPS abilities roll for crit every attack.

I have often called the entire mechanic of critical hits in to question in MMOs, but I realize they are a thing people like. Honestly I think crits and the stats that influence them for healing versus damage are why healing tends to feel like it scales badly. I'm not saying throw away crits. A large part of combat is built around them. However I think it might be worth examining healing crit specifically and reviewing whether there's parity with DPS crits, and more importantly how hard it is for a healing template to get crit versus a DPS template to get crit.

Edited by PopeUrban

PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PopeUrban said:

Healing in a nutshell TBH. It scales super well early and falls off late.

This shouldn't be a problem since in theory late game combatants have more mitigation and DPS to match so the incoming damage should be roughly the same assuming both combatants are similarly geared and skilled. However damage tends to scale way better than healing because of how much easier it is to get more damage on weapons than it is to get more mitigation on gear. Basically the issue here is that armor, in general, grants flat HP as its primary stat increase which is less "sticky" because it has less vectors to be buffed.

HP is buffed by mitigation and... well that's it unless you count barriers. Barriers Have the problem that they're static values though, which naturally makes them fall off in power late game since they don't scale up like HP does with gear.

Damage is buffed by crit chance, crit damage, attack power, and damage multiplier.

Healing, AFAIK is buffed by crit chance, support power, and healing multiplier. Unless I'm mistaken, there's no equivalent to crit damage for healing. Please correct me if this is not the case.

In addition, virtually all attacks can crit, and many attacks even crit automatically. In contrast, there are a ton of heals that can't crit at all.

So at low gear levels, people are doing a lot of noncrit damage, and even when they do crit its relatively weak. At high gear levels, people are doing a lot more crits from damage as opposed to heal, and those crits are doing significantly more damage. This is componded by the fact that in general DPS crits just plain get more chances to crit. A lot of heals are HoTs and the crit seems to be rolled at cast time rather than per tick, while most DPS abilities roll for crit every attack.

I have often called the entire mechanic of critical hits in to question in MMOs, but I realize they are a thing people like. Honestly I think crits and the stats that influence them for healing versus damage are why healing tends to feel like it scales badly. I'm not saying throw away crits. A large part of combat is built around them. However I think it might be worth examining healing crit specifically and reviewing whether there's parity with DPS crits, and more importantly how hard it is for a healing template to get crit versus a DPS template to get crit.

also attack power and support power scale at the same pace (ap likely more accesssible via attritubtes, buffs and skill trees)

yet there is nothing to compensate the leap between basic, intermediate and advanced damage values. especially perfectly rolled ones.

also gear giving such +hp (oh that guy has double my base hp without buffs? *slowly heals*).

as a healer basic weapon fights are a snooze. will be worse with zero discs.

support classes just get the arbituary +750 or so sp from class that any fighter or rogue can pick up with surging spirit... (the arcane mages cant get either)

Edited by Tinnis

caldera_forum_banner_wings.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PopeUrban said:

...Healing, AFAIK is buffed by crit chance, support power, and healing multiplier. Unless I'm mistaken, there's no equivalent to crit damage for healing. Please correct me if this is not the case.

BTW I'm pretty sure Crit Damage does affects the critical amount of heals - testing normal Wisp vs crit Wisp seems to match my current Crit Damage statistic (number variation notwithstanding).

Unfortunately Crit Chance Defence also (incorrectly) reduces the chance to be critically hit by heals :( 

 


:^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Xarrayne said:

BTW I'm pretty sure Crit Damage does affects the critical amount of heals - testing normal Wisp vs crit Wisp seems to match my current Crit Damage statistic (number variation notwithstanding).

 

It does.

31 minutes ago, Xarrayne said:

Unfortunately Crit Chance Defence also (incorrectly) reduces the chance to be critically hit by heals :( 

This is still doing this?


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

YouTube Channel

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Xarrayne said:

BTW I'm pretty sure Crit Damage does affects the critical amount of heals - testing normal Wisp vs crit Wisp seems to match my current Crit Damage statistic (number variation notwithstanding).

Unfortunately Crit Chance Defence also (incorrectly) reduces the chance to be critically hit by heals :( 

 

Thank you for the correction.


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...