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ACE_JackalBark

Generating Worlds - Official Discussion Thread

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Rooster soundboard?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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Followup question:  In the stream they said they have the tech to put different rank dioramas on a parcel but they don't do that.  Why not?  Why should every resource in an area be the same rank?  Why can't high rank granite sit next to low rank iron?  You've already got rules in to prevent iron spawning next to copper, so it would be diverse resources that are different.

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Also, why are all the maps laid out with crap resources along the edges and good resources in the center?  It reduces the value of exploration if we already know there's nothing valuable on the outer edges of a map.  In guild v guild worlds in particular, building your city next to a particularly valuable resource is a good thing.  If, in every single map, that means trying to control the center and ignoring everything else, that takes away a lot of potentially interesting decisions.

 

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This world building tool is a big selling point for this game. Campaigns that you can win and actually end and start over are great but if the map were the same each time it would get stale. This should keep things fresh for a long time to come. As long as you continue to add new and interesting cards to the deck the maps will continue to feel unique. Great job on this! 

 

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15 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Also, why are all the maps laid out with crap resources along the edges and good resources in the center?  It reduces the value of exploration if we already know there's nothing valuable on the outer edges of a map.  In guild v guild worlds in particular, building your city next to a particularly valuable resource is a good thing.  If, in every single map, that means trying to control the center and ignoring everything else, that takes away a lot of potentially interesting decisions.

 

Great feedback on the current world placement rules.  I hope you can review this @Hanseshadow and @jtoddcoleman!

Edited by Weebles
Needed to edit to add second forum tag.

   Official Moderator of the Unofficial Crowfall Discord!  Come join the discussion @ https://discord.me/crowfall

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38 minutes ago, Durenthal said:

Also, why are all the maps laid out with crap resources along the edges and good resources in the center?  It reduces the value of exploration if we already know there's nothing valuable on the outer edges of a map.  In guild v guild worlds in particular, building your city next to a particularly valuable resource is a good thing.  If, in every single map, that means trying to control the center and ignoring everything else, that takes away a lot of potentially interesting decisions.

Agreed. I am not a fan of the "rule" that higher ranks should be near the center of the map.


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1 hour ago, Durenthal said:

Also, why are all the maps laid out with crap resources along the edges and good resources in the center?  It reduces the value of exploration if we already know there's nothing valuable on the outer edges of a map.  In guild v guild worlds in particular, building your city next to a particularly valuable resource is a good thing.  If, in every single map, that means trying to control the center and ignoring everything else, that takes away a lot of potentially interesting decisions.

 

Really hopping this is just a first throw at what they think will work.

I would love to see all sorts of resource and valuable asset distribution models tried.

  • Spoke and wheel with clear outer valuable areas separated by large distances over the middle of the map.
  • Fractured continents, with multiple groups of resources separated by terrain.
  • Gated areas that have no way to build on or near, but with piles of good resources.
  • Regions, so that you go to X location for wood, Y location for ore, etc.

I really think the idea of trying to force certain activities is just that, force.  Clumpy and random is probably going to create way more interesting maps than trying to deliberately herd players like cattle in a specific direction.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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It varies from 0 to 3 rank from the outside towards the center.  Once an adventure zone is placed, the adventure zone brings in 4-6 rank parcels that add on to the existing parcel rank (which allows them to go up to 9).  So, you can get rank 6/7 resources from the outside area.  Seasons can change the rank of resources, as well.  I don't know what that range will be, though.  I coded it to be roughly up to rank 6/7 generally across the map maximum for a while (boss rooms are higher), with the intention of seasons allowing higher-end resources as the campaign progressed.  That was the original intention that eventually a season would arrive that allowed rank 9 resources on the edge of the map, too.

I understand the concern that only the highest rank resources would be available in the center of the map in seasons that do not affect ranks.  I'll talk to Todd about this concern.

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1 hour ago, Hanseshadow said:

It varies from 0 to 3 rank from the outside towards the center.  Once an adventure zone is placed, the adventure zone brings in 4-6 rank parcels that add on to the existing parcel rank (which allows them to go up to 9).  So, you can get rank 6/7 resources from the outside area.  Seasons can change the rank of resources, as well.  I don't know what that range will be, though.  I coded it to be roughly up to rank 6/7 generally across the map maximum for a while (boss rooms are higher), with the intention of seasons allowing higher-end resources as the campaign progressed.  That was the original intention that eventually a season would arrive that allowed rank 9 resources on the edge of the map, too.

I understand the concern that only the highest rank resources would be available in the center of the map in seasons that do not affect ranks.  I'll talk to Todd about this concern.

I can understand this layout with one zone maps.  However, when we start getting maps with more zones in them it makes sense to have resources more spread around.  As a follow up, I understand that in upper ring maps with beachheads and permanent fort/keeps that fort/keep placement is less of an issue for those maps.  However, in the more pvp centric maps (Dregs) will ACE allow us to build our own fort/keeps and maybe even citadels around respawn points?


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Are there plans to add Buildings to the dioramas? To make randomized towns, villages, and cities?

 

And, if at all possible, can the 5.9 map have a sprawling city on the Keep parcel?I think it would be fun to siege a keep in a city  :D (I don't think it'll cause too much trouble, since the bane trees and catapults are stationary, but I'm likely wrong with that assumption)


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Honestly we could do with some one shot motherlodes, perhaps surrounded by spawns of oneshot mobs. The tech is there to generate hunger shards in empty dioramas, right? However, if your shard generates and there's nothing nearby for it to affect, it's pretty much a "dead shard" unless you're looking for hunger shards for weapons. I imagine that you'll already have said shards as a natural effect of breaking them down to unfreeze other static nodes. if campaigns are slated to run for 3-6 months, there's not much of a reason to explore after the first two weeks once I've got the nodes on my map.

If, however, the server used a combination of static and transient resource nodes this would promote exploration even at the edges of the map. The idea you can stumble across r9 ore in some out of the way spot, but that the node is only good for one use would encourage people to venture everywhere even deep in to the campaign. You'd need new art or some way to message these are different than normal nodes, but this would serve as an efficient driver for exploration that is purposely inefficient compared to static nodes.

Its a double edged sword. You need predictable and static locations to drive PvP, but you also need the world at large to generate interest so people have something to do that feels worthwhile if they're ejected forcibly from valuable map locations for the day. If it doesn't the majority of your map is just wasted space where nobody ever goes after they know the map, and you lose the joy of exploration very quickly. You could fold skills/disciplines in to this system specifically to help people track down these oneshot nodes.

You could extend this system to other kinds of things and use it for oneshot bosses as well as a component of thrall spawns. EVE does this with its site scanning mechanic and the entire exploration system there drives a lot of small scale PvP as people track down valuable single use content and other explorers.

Edited by PopeUrban

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