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The Winds of Change - Official Discussion Thread


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5 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I actually hope that death comes quick, and campaigns end abruptly for many, and that it's crystal clear when your done rather than having players linger and try to come back when it's hopeless.

But I would rather that happen because of what a team does aggressively. Take out food reserves, burn crops, block access to needed supplies, kill them enough to force decay and lack of replacements to leave them naked, etc.

Some dev strategies could involve cutting people off from beachheads and beachhead crafting tables as well as eliminating imports in fall/winter, and thus all access to crafting if you can't hold a fort. 

I just don't want the games to end because winter has come and the best strategy becomes turtle and just try to not run out of supplies. Waiting to see who dies last is not really what I consider good gameplay.

Well dieing always refills the food meter ;) CHARGE THE ENEMY IF YOUR HUNGRY SOLDIERS! SURELY A GLORIOUS DEATH WILL FEED US THIS LONG WINTER!

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Please keep in mind that we didn't sign up for a farming simulator.  Food consumption is already ridiculously fast.  Spending 500+ clicks to make a day's worth of brisket is not fun.  Constantly farmi

I agree this will happen in a majority of campaigns because humans are hardwired to take the path of least resistance. No one has ever been able to explain to me how designing  Crowfall game mechanics

See how changing seasons will affect gameplay! FULL STORY

5 minutes ago, dolmar said:

Well dieing always refills the food meter ;) CHARGE THE ENEMY IF YOUR HUNGRY SOLDIERS! SURELY A GLORIOUS DEATH WILL FEED US THIS LONG WINTER!

I hope that is a dial on the season's they can turn.

Spring/Summer: Fill er up when you die.

Fall/Winter: Start with zero chicken tickers and feel the pain.

Actually, that could be great dial for decay rate/tow truck on equipment as well.

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6 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I hope that is a dial on the season's they can turn.

Spring/Summer: Fill er up when you die.

Fall/Winter: Start with zero chicken tickers and feel the pain.

Actually, that could be great dial for decay rate/tow truck on equipment as well.

My biggest fear is that with the addition of seasons and winning through attrition of supplies that the later stages of a campaign will become virtually unplayable for a large portion of players that aren't in super alliances. While I can appreciate the intent behind this type of micro play, I can see it becoming a huge discouraging issue. If a large population of the campaign world has little to no options to continue playing and feels hopeless, is that a good thing for the game? When you're under kitted in the late game of other BR type games, sure, it's a similar situation. However you have far less at stake in those games than you do in crowfall. Something to take in to consideration.

Edited by Helix
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9 minutes ago, Helix said:

My biggest fear is that with the addition of seasons and winning through attrition of supplies that the later stages of a campaign will become virtually unplayable for a large portion of players that aren't in super alliances. While I can appreciate the intent behind this type of micro play, I can see it becoming a huge discouraging issue. If a large population of the campaign world has little to no options to continue playing and feels hopeless, is that a good thing for the game? When you're under kitted in the late game of other BR type games, sure, it's a similar situation. However you have far less at stake in those games than you do in crowfall. Something to take in to consideration.

As long as it remains as it is now, I don't really see that as a problem. I probably farmed around 2k ore yesterday by myself. If I were skinning, I'd have stacks upon stacks of meat. I could literally sacrifice apples because I had so many on my lumberjack. I do have four accounts though, but the point is you don't have to be in a "super alliance". What you do have to be is active. People that just want to log in and line up for PvP are going to have a rough go of it unless someone is willing to carry their weight. Solo players..well..

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currently the first food debuff that turns off hp regen also still disables mana regen. is this intentional? why would i want to play a mana class unless i have an alt for all the food bank space i will need...

does death reset food etc

Edited by Tinnis
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Feels like there's a lot of potential for the future.

Lots of potential event triggers and/or consequences. Seasons, season conditions, weather, runegates, day/night, the sacrifice system and other possible player efforts, availability of resources,...

Bringing this to a crazier point, we could see lots of in-campaign events: blizzards blocking road passes, runegates having one destination by day and a different one by night, crafting efforts to activate runegates, lightning bolts burning trees, sacrifice efforts to bring rain in a desert biome zone,...

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Some dev strategies could involve cutting people off from beachheads and beachhead crafting tables as well as eliminating imports in fall/winter, and thus all access to crafting if you can't hold a fort. 

 

What custard beachheads are there going to be in the dregs?

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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1 hour ago, Armegeddon said:

As long as it remains as it is now, I don't really see that as a problem. I probably farmed around 2k ore yesterday by myself. If I were skinning, I'd have stacks upon stacks of meat. I could literally sacrifice apples because I had so many on my lumberjack. I do have four accounts though, but the point is you don't have to be in a "super alliance". What you do have to be is active. People that just want to log in and line up for PvP are going to have a rough go of it unless someone is willing to carry their weight. Solo players..well..

It's going to interesting to see what those numbers are come early access when the population hopefully balloons and there is less resources due to more competition. I'm in the camp that solo harvesting will be increasingly unlikely once your competition numbers in the hundreds - thousands. Maybe the map will be so big that it won't matter, but I hope they arrange the resources in such a manner that pvp is almost guaranteed. 

Edited by Helix
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Stock up - how about more bank space to be able to stock up. Right now the volume of materials required to craft is just stupid and the freedom of moving stuff to EK basically changes how and where people are active.

 

Increase bank space significantly. Reduce EK transfers dramatically. Thanks

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5 hours ago, blazzen said:

Will we able to "over cap" plentiful harvest? Similar to how armor vs. armor penetration works now? 

Plentiful 1 Granted by Default, +3 Plentiful Harvesting in Training, +1 from Harvesting Discipline +1 from potion = Plentiful Harvest 6. If it's Fall and there's a Global -1 plentiful harvest can I still maintain plentiful harvest 5 through "over capping"? 

I think I asked that question in one of the past livestreams. I think the answer was that PH would be capped at 3 during the Winter (playing into their idea of winter being harder to get higher quality resources)

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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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9 hours ago, Durenthal said:

Please keep in mind that we didn't sign up for a farming simulator.  Food consumption is already ridiculously fast.  Spending 500+ clicks to make a day's worth of brisket is not fun.  Constantly farming animals for meat and trees for apples is not fun.  In a throne war, the farming should be done by NPC peasant thralls, not by the heroes of the story.

Let us fight over forts that have peasants out in the fields gathering harvest - while we own the fort, we have food coming in.  That leads nicely into your idea of burning the other side's fields to prevent that food generation.

I agree with this in some respects, but I wonder if things will be different once you can actually cook meat at a Cooking Crafting station, once more of the food items have been added and if Factories will make it possible to cook food in large quanities. That alone could change things completely.

 

9 hours ago, Jah said:

This sounds pretty cool. In addition to scouting out the location of Runegates players will need to know the pattern of when they open and close and plan accordingly. In addition to season and weather, I could see some Runegates being tied to the day/night cycle.

Also, I think it would be cool if they don't just turn off, but disappear. So when exploring you won't find the Runegate unless you are there when it is open.

I can envision all kinds of things they could do in this vein:

-Ice bridges that only exist in Winter
-Invisible bridges that only show up during the day or night, due to being transparent etc (think of that scene in Indiana Jones or Stargate)
-Areas of the map that are accessible only through a chole-point that is filled with a high density of mobs at night

I definitely like the idea of map areas being cut off entirely, in both directly, for short periods of time (assumning night is short) - meaning if you get a force into that location, you could farm for hours, and secure an advantage. By the same token, you could blockade a gate back to the main continent and trap an enemy force while you assault their holdings on the main map...so many cool possibilities!

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29 minutes ago, Anthrage said:

I agree with this in some respects, but I wonder if things will be different once you can actually cook meat at a Cooking Crafting station, once more of the food items have been added and if Factories will make it possible to cook food in large quanities. That alone could change things completely.

 

Also

Golden apples already fill you to full, and they have skills/discs that reduce food consumption rates, so with those two dials there is no reason for better quality meals to not only give you full tickers, but also a buff that temporarily reduces the rate at which you use tickers.

I think the version of food we have now is so basic compared to what it can and will be, with even a few tweaks, that trying to judge how much time will be spend eating is going to be way way off.

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I'm like Anthrage there, i think we'll have to wait until all the reagents are in the pot before seeing the real potential or the real pain in the ass it could be about the food.

Don't forget there is a full tree about farming/husbandry, i presume we will be able, like in Albion Online, to make crops and grow stuff on them and gather food/hide from animals we will eventually capture?

Until we have more information about this stuff, actually food is just a pain, but later it could be only some 5 min stuff to do before going wacking heads.

Don't forget Shadowbane sentence : We don't play games to bake breadwe play to crush

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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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16 hours ago, Helix said:

If later seasons are too penalizing I can see it going from a challenging mechanic to an outright tedious one. You don't want winter and fall to become depressing slogs and suck all the fun out of the game.

Ideally this would be mitigated by a rolling schedule of campaign openings. Currently in testing our limited number of campaigns generally all start and close all at once.

However, with the potential for reaching a no-win situation due to seasonal effects, players that have been so crippled for supplies in a campaign that they can not recover should ideally have to option of ceding the campaign, locking themselves out, and joining a fresh one.

So long as campaigns have "schedule A" and "schedule B" that coincide with the start of autumn or winter you shouldn't be in a situation where you are forced to stick around for a campaign you know you've lost. That's kind of the whole point of the campaign system in general, to mitigate the negative forces of stagnation by allowing losers to lose and start fresh so they don't have to just stay and get farmed by uncle bob.

Ideally This would mean the "join" lockout for campaigns is, in general, spring. Spring on 'schedule A' coincides with autumn on 'schedule b'

Throughout autumn and winter, players then have the option of abandoning the campaign, effectively freezing whatever rewards they've acquired. This locks them out of this campaign and gives them back their campaign join token (as I recall we are supposed to only be able to tie ourselves to one or two campaigns at a time) Your campaign end rewards (however the export system is set up) will be doled out to you based upon the campaign's end result at the end of winter.

You shouldn't have to sit through tedium if you have been placed in an unwinnable situation since at the moment you figure out you are out of provisions and this campaign is basically going to be an unwinnable slog, you can take your bag and go hope and start up in one of the fresh ones. Added benefit: The people actually winning the campaign you just swuit won't be in the new one most likely since they're fighting to the end of 'schedule a' and will thus likely be starting another 'schedule a' campaign while you're on 'schedule b'

In a perfect world, population would be high enough to justify schedules a,b,c, and d so that you've always get a campaign opening, which is great not only for preventing players from suffering stagnation, but also solves the question of "what happens when a player buys crowfall but its not the start of any campaigns?" since there would be some sort of campaign opening pretty much constantly.

 

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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5 hours ago, Tinnis said:

regarding banks and movement of goods...

what if:

- you could only import fully crafted gear (weapons, armor, discs and other equipables)

- you coukd only export unfinished crafting raw materail and incomplete components? 

I've been a long advocate that once BP's are in, that some campaigns be even more severe than item/material, and that imports be 100% restricted to BP's, with no limits on numbers.

This would totally prevent the Uncle Bob problem as it relates to material availability.  Everyone would have gather every scrap of material from inside the world they were operating, but could leverage EK's to produce the best blueprints possible to use inside that world.

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1 hour ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

 

 the Uncle Bob problem

I don't think you can really prevent this.  I'm all for coding against it but after watching it happen over and over again I just don't think you can code for a better community; people want to win and ultimately will form any alliance to do so especially if its to spite in the eye of somebody they hate. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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