ramshack

What direction is the game going?

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I logged in have to say I'm pretty lost on where the game is going what the direction is. It's like like a Game of Thrones and more like Mine Craft. Why am I punching tree's and building tools? to build better tools to kill more trees? The devs have created a less interesting player experience than that of the first hour in mine craft. I feel like this is becoming more like an Ark or Conan and less like the Game of Thrones, RPG, War Simulator we were sold.

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1 hour ago, ramshack said:

I logged in have to say I'm pretty lost on where the game is going what the direction is. It's like like a Game of Thrones and more like Mine Craft. Why am I punching tree's and building tools? to build better tools to kill more trees? The devs have created a less interesting player experience than that of the first hour in mine craft. I feel like this is becoming more like an Ark or Conan and less like the Game of Thrones, RPG, War Simulator we were sold.

 

They haven't even added like 30% of the core features yet. Sure, there are elements in now that are representative of the eventual actual game, and we can draw some conclusions or make suggestions based on those, but to act like there has been a bait-and-switch because the pre-alpha testing environment doesn't match your expectations is a bit inappropriate IMO.

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I acknowledge most of the game isn't done yet, and I have a limited play experience. But all I can do is comment on what I've experienced in the game. I don't think it's inappropriate all to say my first experience in the game mirrored almost exactly my first 30 minutes in minecraft. When I watched the trailers on kickstarter and they used phrases like the intensity of a season of game of thrones but in a video game, and a mix between an mmo and and a strategy game. Never did I think I would log in and have to punch trees. Is it wrong to say I was dissapointed if I felt dissapointed?

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10 hours ago, ramshack said:

I acknowledge most of the game isn't done yet, and I have a limited play experience. But all I can do is comment on what I've experienced in the game.

yes, there is a ramp up time. But significantly less ramp up time to "end-game" than any other MMO. Once you know what youre doing you can get to intermediate gear in like 20 minutes. That's nothing compared to having to level to max level in another game. 

Did you expect to enter the game and do nothing for gear or? 

10 hours ago, ramshack said:

When I watched the trailers on kickstarter and they used phrases like the intensity of a season of game of thrones but in a video game, and a mix between an mmo and and a strategy game. Never did I think I would log in and have to punch trees. Is it wrong to say I was dissapointed if I felt dissapointed?

And that's what the game is shaping up to be. But you cant necessarily expect to immediately get everything you want, it takes time to get geared, etc. I'm not sure what else you expected considering its been made very clear that harvesting and crafting are both massive parts of the game, and where eventually a large amount of strategy will come from.

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Or you know, start me with a dirty shirt and a rusty axe and so im not punching tree's like mine craft but you know whatever.

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48 minutes ago, ramshack said:

Or you know, start me with a dirty shirt and a rusty axe and so im not punching tree's like mine craft but you know whatever.

You have to punch a total of 3 trees before you can craft an axe. I don't see a problem.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

They haven't even added like 30% of the core features yet. Sure, there are elements in now that are representative of the eventual actual game, and we can draw some conclusions or make suggestions based on those, but to act like there has been a bait-and-switch because the pre-alpha testing environment doesn't match your expectations is a bit inappropriate IMO.

I think he's talking about the core of the game, which basically go out, farm resources, craft items so you can farm more resources and craft the next tier of items so you can farm more resources. People farming hundreds of resources atm don't realize that won't be the case when there is an actual population that's trying to kill you and stop you from progressing. Harvesting and progression is even going to be more of a slog.

 

14 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

You have to punch a total of 3 trees before you can craft an axe. I don't see a problem.

The problem is that this is the introduction to the game, that in itself is the problem. You punch a tree 3 times, and then hit a rock for 10 more which increasingly is multiplied when you factor how long it takes to acquire advanced gear (the only gear that really means anything). If your players first impression is that the first part of the game sucks, they're not going to stick around for the later halves. Think about it.

Edited by izkimar

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6 minutes ago, izkimar said:

The problem is that this is the introduction to the game, that in itself is the problem. You punch a tree 3 times, and then hit a rock for 10 more which increasingly is multiplied when you factor how long it takes to acquire advanced gear (the only gear that really means anything). If you're players first impression is that the first part of the game sucks, they're not going to stick around for the later halves. Think about it.

Isn't that the point of advanced armor? In Darkfall, it didn't only take 30 minutes to get a fully Dragon bag. I think too many gamers now adays are too "privileged" and want everything handed to them. That's a whole other topic though.

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5 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

Isn't that the point of advanced armor? In Darkfall, it didn't only take 30 minutes to get a fully Dragon bag. I think too many gamers now adays are too "privileged" and want everything handed to them. That's a whole other topic though.

I call it welfare gaming. 

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2 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

Isn't that the point of advanced armor? In Darkfall, it didn't only take 30 minutes to get a fully Dragon bag. I think too many gamers now adays are too "privileged" and want everything handed to them. That's a whole other topic though.

True, but in Darkfall there was far less barriers to harvesting, it was way more inclusive and there were alternatives. Your character could effectively do everything which is a big difference from crowfall where you're basically forced to nut cup. Even with the accessibility and flexibility with character freedom the game died (not specifically because of harvesting, but the grind definitely hurt it among other things). Crowfall has replaced the "go out and kill 10 rats" quest grind with the "go out and hit 100+ of x node" grind. They're both boring, but at least the rats fight back and keep the experience engaging.

All these experiences might change when the population is larger, who knows.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, izkimar said:

True, but in Darkfall there was far less barriers to harvesting, it was way more inclusive and there were alternatives. Your character could effectively do everything which is a big difference from crowfall where you're basically forced to nut cup. Even with the accessibility and flexibility with character freedom the game died (not specifically because of harvesting, but the grind definitely hurt it among other things). Crowfall has replaced the "go out and kill 10 rats" quest grind with the "go out and hit 100+ of x node" grind. They're both boring, but at least the rats fight back and keep the experience engaging.

All these experiences might change when the population is larger, who knows.

I don't see how the experience will change when the population grows, unless you will be one of the people asking for free armor. I like Mandalore's "welfare gaming" comment. It sounds like you're just looking for a different game friend. If you don't want to do any harvesting, this game is not for you. I would highly recommend getting good at killing and join a guild that has multiple dedicated crafters. Once you kill enough people, you'll have enough resources to give to your crafters and they will love you. If you're a solo player -----> Fortnite or any other simplistic game.

Edit to say that I was one of those idiots who didn't like harvesting. Guess what? Turns out I was competent at killing people. Pair that with a good guild, I was able to get free armor/weapons. Eventually, I stopped being a noob and started looking into the harvesting. Now I am a pretty versatile player.

Edited by Unfolded

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Posted (edited)

I'm just bad at the game but I play a vital role so I get gear from my guild out of pity. 

Edited by mandalore

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8 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

I don't see how the experience will change when the population grows, unless you will be one of the people asking for free armor. I like Mandalore's "welfare gaming" comment. It sounds like you're just looking for a different game friend. If you don't want to do any harvesting, this game is not for you. I would highly recommend getting good at killing and join a guild that has multiple dedicated crafters. Once you kill enough people, you'll have enough resources to give to your crafters and they will love you. If you're a solo player -----> Fortnite or any other simplistic game.

Edit to say that I was one of those idiots who didn't like harvesting. Guess what? Turns out I was competent at killing people. Pair that with a good guild, I was able to get free armor/weapons. Eventually, I stopped being a noob and started looking into the harvesting. Now I am a pretty versatile player.

My problem isnt harvesting so much as the time invested in harvesting. There is a good reason why other games trivialize this part of the game; it's boring. Lower the requirements on the upper tier of gear and you'll less likely to see these type of threads now and 6 months from now. Keep your head in the sand and responding with the "hurr durr, this game isnt for you" mantra and you'll find yourself playing a game by yourself. A lot of this stuff can be fixed with a better New Player Experience and adjusting some nobs and so forth, so we'll see where it goes from there. Crowfall isn't the only pvp focused mmorpg so the devs should be weary of this.

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IMO Armour material requirements should be about halved.  Weapons are pretty good... and why does jewelry have a 75 difficulty rating?

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29 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

Isn't that the point of advanced armor? In Darkfall, it didn't only take 30 minutes to get a fully Dragon bag. I think too many gamers now adays are too "privileged" and want everything handed to them. That's a whole other topic though.

Yeah but a dragon bag in Darkfall wasn't nearly as powerful as a Legendary Set in Crowfall.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1_uz7mIPtSWsGw5nmDwZnL1BQVkuJxYMOskI-BdMXw/edit#gid=838428169

Rank 0 axe in Darkfall which dropped off of noob Goblin monsters or was the lowest tier crafted weapon was 35 dmg - this would be your equivalent of basic in Crowfall. 

Rank 4 axe in Darkfall which would be like your base advanced weapon in Crowfall was 53 damage. 

Rank 5-6 is what you'd see most people with which was 60-70 damage. 

Rank 8 axe in Darkfall which would be your legendary quality in Crowfall was 81 damage.

The difference between basic and legendary in Darkfall was about 2-2.5x. 

In Crowfall it's a different of 40 vs. 160 damage. And the 160 damage doesn't even include the 200-300 attack power (which equates to another 20-30 damage), critical hit chance/damage, armor penetration, lower PCM, etc. It's probably closer to 5x between basic and legendary in Crowfall. 

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2 minutes ago, izkimar said:

My problem isnt harvesting so much as the time invested in harvesting. There is a good reason why other games trivialize this part of the game; it's boring. Lower the requirements on the upper tier of gear and you'll less likely to see these type of threads now and 6 months from now. Keep your head in the sand and responding with the "hurr durr, this game isnt for you" mantra and you'll find yourself playing a game by yourself. A lot of this stuff can be fixed with a better New Player Experience and adjusting some nobs and so forth, so we'll see where it goes from there. Crowfall isn't the only pvp focused mmorpg so the devs should be weary of this.

Crowfall is currently in Pre Alpha. If you followed the game, you would know how many times the devs have changed the requirements for advanced armor (a lot). I'm used to these crying threads asking for the game to be easier. It comes with the 2018 mentality of everything handed to gamers. I'm a strong believer in that great armor shouldn't take only 30 minutes to grind. If I have a GOOD set of armor/weapons on, I want to have a FIT when I die, because I lost durability.. or lose the armor/weapons on the dregs. 

What you should really be complaining about is the TIME is takes to get to the point of crafting advanced armor and weapons. Also the time is takes to gather high-ish tier resoruces. You do know the current skill training times are multiplied by 10 right? What you do in 2 months will take you a little less than 2 years. I can't imagine they will keep the 1x's skill training.

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2 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Yeah but a dragon bag in Darkfall wasn't nearly as powerful as a Legendary Set in Crowfall.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l1_uz7mIPtSWsGw5nmDwZnL1BQVkuJxYMOskI-BdMXw/edit#gid=838428169

Rank 0 axe in Darkfall which dropped off of noob Goblin monsters or was the lowest tier crafted weapon was 35 dmg - this would be your equivalent of basic in Crowfall. 

Rank 4 axe in Darkfall which would be like your base advanced weapon in Crowfall was 53 damage. 

Rank 5-6 is what you'd see most people with which was 60-70 damage. 

Rank 8 axe in Darkfall which would be your legendary quality in Crowfall was 81 damage.

The difference between basic and legendary in Darkfall was about 2-2.5x. 

In Crowfall it's a different of 40 vs. 160 damage. And the 160 damage doesn't even include the 200-300 attack power (which equates to another 20-30 damage), critical hit chance/damage, armor penetration, lower PCM, etc. It's probably closer to 5x between basic and legendary in Crowfall. 

This is a whole other conversation. I'm also a strong believer in armor/weapons need to be scaled down. Too much of killing power comes from armor/weapons/training and not enough from player skill.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

This is a whole other conversation. I'm also a strong believer in armor/weapons need to be scaled down. Too much of killing power comes from armor/weapons/training and not enough from player skill.

I agree to a certain extent.

However, in Darkfall you could get a viable set of gear to PVP in about 30-60 minutes. Set of plate with R4 or full plate with R5-R6. It meant you were about 15-25% behind someone in R8 gear. 

Compare that to Crowfall where an average common set is 100-110 damage and epic-legendary is 150-160 and you've got a difference of closer to 50%. 

Takes a lot longer to get a viable set of gear in Crowfall too. I'd say somewhere in the 3 hour range (not including a vessel or jewerly, just armor/weapons). 

Edited by blazzen

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Unfolded said:

I'm a strong believer in that great armor shouldn't take only 30 minutes to grind. If I have a GOOD set of armor/weapons on, I want to have a FIT when I die, because I lost durability.. or lose the armor/weapons on the dregs. 

I feel like what you want isn't necessarily healthy for the game when it comes to retaining players. Should death sting and be avoided at all costs? Certainly. Should death give you the urge to break your keyboard in half? Absolutely not. Right now the time it takes to get to a competitive level feels way too long (since the criteria to being competitive is advanced armor, and that criteria changes with the introduction of higher grades of advanced armor). People are bitching when they have 10x training and can effectively do everything, imagine when that's not the case.

3 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Darkfall armor was lost instantly on death where Crowfall armor lasts 10-12. 

Full inventory loot was possible for that very reason, competitive gear was relatively easy to acquire and easy to lose. Imagine how rage inducing it would be if your advanced armor that took you 2+ hours armors to harvest / craft broke in 1 or 2 deaths or was looted? In fact you don't have to imagine because that scenario existed early last year when gear broke in 3-4 deaths and there was a huge outcry.

 

Edited by Helix

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