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ramshack

What direction is the game going?

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There is a reason why corporations, community groups and gangs are created.  That division of labor makes your life easier.  There will be less need for them in the higher ringed worlds where that structure will be provided for you.  In the lower ringed worlds players will be divided up into larger gangs and compete for resources.  

Gathering and armor/weapons will probably be easier on larger maps.  You will probably have an easier time going for Rank 3 materials instead of going to maps with higher ranked mats.  

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2 minutes ago, Helix said:

I feel like what you want isn't necessarily healthy for the game when it comes to retaining players. Should death sting and be avoided at all costs? Certainly. Should death give you the urge to break your keyboard in half? Absolutely not. Right now the time it takes to get to a competitive level feels way too long (since the criteria to being competitive is advanced armor, and that criteria changes with the introduction of higher grades of advanced armor). People are bitching when they have 10x training and can effectively do everything, imagine when that's not the case.

People are bitching when they have 10x training and can effectively do everything, imagine when that's not the case.

^ Exactly my point

 

I think you're missing the original post of this thread though. People are complaining about startup costs, complaining about punching 3 trees.. not complaining about high tier resource cost. Everything of what you said, I agree with.

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7 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Darkfall armor was lost instantly on death where Crowfall armor lasts 10-12. 

It didn't break upon death instantly. Darkfall armor lasted about the same amount of time Crowfall armor did. Darkfall armor didn't lose as much durability on death as Crowfall but Darkfall armor took durability loss from use (swinging sword, firing bow, getting hit on armor, etc.). 

It's true if you died you'd get looted. But the average player would win 50%, lose 50%, and come out even more or less. 

Plus it only took 30-60 minutes to get another set of PVP viable gear....compared to 3+ hours in Crowfall. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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1 minute ago, blazzen said:

It didn't break upon death instantly. Darkfall armor lasted about the same amount of time Crowfall armor did. Darkfall armor didn't lose as much durability on death as Crowfall but Darkfall armor took durability loss from use (swinging sword, firing bow, getting hit on armor, etc.). 

It's true if you died you'd get looted. But the average player would win 50%, lose 50%, and come out even more or less. 

Plus it only took 30-60 minutes to get another set of PVP viable gear....compared to 3+ hours in Crowfall. 

I only mentioned it because it adds context for the time investment to gear acquired ratio.

If in Darkfall you lose everything for 30mins of farming, and Crowfall you have 10 deaths per one gear set, wouldn't Darkfall be considered more of a grind than Crowfall?

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7 minutes ago, Zatch said:

I only mentioned it because it adds context for the time investment to gear acquired ratio.

If in Darkfall you lose everything for 30mins of farming, and Crowfall you have 10 deaths per one gear set, wouldn't Darkfall be considered more of a grind than Crowfall?

No because average player wins or loses half the time so net effect of full loot is null. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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3 minutes ago, blazzen said:

No because average player wins or loses half the time so net effect of full loot is null. 

Thats probably not true for most games, and is especially not true in an open world pvp game. Fights are unbalanced and chaotic as a rule; part of the skill cap for this game is taking fights that have a higher chance of success, so you don't break you poorly made socks and lose your guild supplies.  

Edited by Zatch
GOD DMAN custard MACSSSSS

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5 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Thats probably not true for most games, and is especially not true in an open world pvp game. Fights are unbalanced and chaotic as a rule; part of the skill cap for this game is taking fights that have a higher chance of success, so you don't break you poorly made socks and lose your guild supplies.  

I WAS one of those average players in Darkfall (which will tell you how much higher the skill cap was in Darkfall compared to Crowfall) so I'm speaking from experience.

Since gear wasn't that hard to come by I'd have 5-10 "go bags" (sets of gear) in my bank. So if I died and lost all my gear I'd grab another bag and go.

In a bad siege I might lose 2-4 bags. In a good siege I might bring home 2-4 bags. It evened out.

Equipped item loot was originally planned for Crowfall, btw. 

Image result for crowfall campaign bands


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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23 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Words

In a worst case scenario siege in Crowfall  you die four times and lose 550 durability. This equates to roughly 50% of the entire durability for one set of gear. Logistics is supposed to be a significant part of Crowfall, gear breaking matters. Dying in Crowfall has longer lasting consequences compared to other pvp MMOs. Whether that promotes pvp and makes it more meaningful, or does the opposite, time will tell.

The major disconnect for Crowfalls gear system is the larger initial time investment needed to make a set of gear. In less than an hour (excluding crafting time) you can farm enough resources to make a set of advanced gear. That set will last ten or so deaths, and if you take fights correctly can last weeks worth of time. For crafting and logistics to matter gear must have a decent amount of investment time to create.

Full loot pvp with the current crafting system would be a game of people in basics. Add in vessel decay on death and the game will be a nudists paradise.

Edited by Zatch

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6 hours ago, Unfolded said:

I don't see how the experience will change when the population grows, unless you will be one of the people asking for free armor. I like Mandalore's "welfare gaming" comment. It sounds like you're just looking for a different game friend. If you don't want to do any harvesting, this game is not for you. I would highly recommend getting good at killing and join a guild that has multiple dedicated crafters. Once you kill enough people, you'll have enough resources to give to your crafters and they will love you. If you're a solo player -----> Fortnite or any other simplistic game.

Edit to say that I was one of those idiots who didn't like harvesting. Guess what? Turns out I was competent at killing people. Pair that with a good guild, I was able to get free armor/weapons. Eventually, I stopped being a noob and started looking into the harvesting. Now I am a pretty versatile player.

Why can't the game offer thralls to harvest for you, x time provides y resources.  Harvesting is not fun and part of the strategy could be what thralls you send out to get what resources. When you first log into the game you get a basic thrall.

When the thrall comes back with resources, then the actual profession of player crafting takes over.

There are options that are more engaging for the player, and don't hurt the economy.

The game needs more polish and hopefully that will improve the OPs and future players experiences.


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58 minutes ago, Teufel said:

Why can't the game offer thralls to harvest for you, x time provides y resources.  Harvesting is not fun and part of the strategy could be what thralls you send out to get what resources. When you first log into the game you get a basic thrall.

When the thrall comes back with resources, then the actual profession of player crafting takes over.

There are options that are more engaging for the player, and don't hurt the economy.

The game needs more polish and hopefully that will improve the OPs and future players experiences.

You have to gather. The entire gameplay loop revolves around players doing stuff. If you want an automated game there are plenty to choose from. Please refrain from breaking the game for the folks who have been waiting a decade or more for it.

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1 hour ago, Zatch said:

You have to gather. The entire gameplay loop revolves around players doing stuff. If you want an automated game there are plenty to choose from. Please refrain from breaking the game for the folks who have been waiting a decade or more for it.

I'm not breaking anything, in fact a similar loop existed in Shadowbane;  they we're called mines. Yes you fought over the mines, but then the resources were auto dropped into the cities warehouse for 22 hours. Raw materials were not harvestable only gold could be farmed. Resources were fought over.

Instead of the grind of harvesting as it is now, I would rather they have a probe mechanic like EvE, where you looked for an open world npc fight; that is one way to keep players doing something. There are a lot of other ways to keep players in the world doing things, without having them needlessly grind for resources.

The more fun mechanics they add, the more players will stick around. Having fun in the world also creates more opportunities for PvP.

Edited by Teufel

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Each of those activities require you to go out into the world. When I see thralls I interrupted it as a fire and forget mechanic. Think wow garrison tables., BDO gatherer npcs, or Swtor companions. NPCS currently have crafting items on their loot table its just not fleshed out.

 

Activities are good as long as they promote different playstyless and tie into the core concept of the game.

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25 minutes ago, Teufel said:

I'm not braking anything, in fact a similar loop existed in Shadowbane;  they we're called mines. Yes you fought over the mines, but then the resources were auto dropped into the cities warehouse for 22 hours. Raw materials were not harvestable only gold could be farmed. Resources were fought over.

Instead of the grind of harvesting as it is now, I would rather they have a probe mechanic like EvE, where you looked for an open world npc fight; that is one way to keep players doing something. There are a lot of other ways to keep players in the world doing things, without having them needlessly grind for resources.

The more fun mechanics they add, the more players will stick around. Having fun in the world also creates more opportunities for PvP.

1.  Mobs based off race/location dropped resources in addition to gold, items and stat runes.

2.  Mines were added post release.

Did you actually play SB?

Edited by mandalore

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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On 6/29/2018 at 10:56 AM, Unfolded said:

I don't see how the experience will change when the population grows, unless you will be one of the people asking for free armor. I like Mandalore's "welfare gaming" comment. It sounds like you're just looking for a different game friend. If you don't want to do any harvesting, this game is not for you. I would highly recommend getting good at killing and join a guild that has multiple dedicated crafters. Once you kill enough people, you'll have enough resources to give to your crafters and they will love you. If you're a solo player -----> Fortnite or any other simplistic game.

Edit to say that I was one of those idiots who didn't like harvesting. Guess what? Turns out I was competent at killing people. Pair that with a good guild, I was able to get free armor/weapons. Eventually, I stopped being a noob and started looking into the harvesting. Now I am a pretty versatile player.

I'm not looking for Welfare gaming. It's not the experience that was pitched during the Kickstarter. I came from Shadowbane and Original Everquest. I dont mind working for progression. I don't mind full loot pvp or even perma death. But I did knot know I was signing up for Mincraft 2.0.

Someone said it better than I did. This is the first experience users have in the game. Punch a tree, make an axe, chop more trees, pound more rocks. That's not the player experience I was expecting from the sales pitch they created. It's boring and I was off the game in 30 minutes. Not to mention there is nothing to tell me how to craft or where the UI options are it was really bad and boring.

I thought I would be singing up for one of the noble houses aligned in one of three factions, as a man at arms maybe I can even start with a poorly made socks sword and leather pads. Maybe one of the noble houses pays me to guard poorly made socks, or kill enemies and I can earn some standard gear. Then as I progress in the game I can decide to grab that axe or pick and train to become a blacksmith. This is just really pidgeon holing everyone into a mine craft experience. Do I need to make a house to hide in before it gets dark!

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On 6/29/2018 at 8:20 AM, blazzen said:

I agree to a certain extent.

However, in Darkfall you could get a viable set of gear to PVP in about 30-60 minutes. Set of plate with R4 or full plate with R5-R6. It meant you were about 15-25% behind someone in R8 gear. 

Compare that to Crowfall where an average common set is 100-110 damage and epic-legendary is 150-160 and you've got a difference of closer to 50%. 

Takes a lot longer to get a viable set of gear in Crowfall too. I'd say somewhere in the 3 hour range (not including a vessel or jewerly, just armor/weapons). 

woahh woah woah... it takes like 3 months of skill training in combat and race to come anywhere near the "skill" level of another person.  someone with that high level skill tree NAKED with a good weapon could probably fight 4 people in intermediate gear at once and not even break a sweat.

 

were looking at like.. 5% player skill 95% weapons and armor / skills tree.

IMO a highly leveled player with decent armor and skill tree should be like... breaking a sweat trying to kill 2 people in intermediate gear . but... be able to do it.

Edited by beandip

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1 hour ago, ramshack said:

I'm not looking for Welfare gaming. It's not the experience that was pitched during the Kickstarter. I came from Shadowbane and Original Everquest. I dont mind working for progression. I don't mind full loot pvp or even perma death. But I did knot know I was signing up for Mincraft 2.0.

Someone said it better than I did. This is the first experience users have in the game. Punch a tree, make an axe, chop more trees, pound more rocks. That's not the player experience I was expecting from the sales pitch they created. It's boring and I was off the game in 30 minutes. Not to mention there is nothing to tell me how to craft or where the UI options are it was really bad and boring.

I thought I would be singing up for one of the noble houses aligned in one of three factions, as a man at arms maybe I can even start with a poorly made socks sword and leather pads. Maybe one of the noble houses pays me to guard poorly made socks, or kill enemies and I can earn some standard gear. Then as I progress in the game I can decide to grab that axe or pick and train to become a blacksmith. This is just really pidgeon holing everyone into a mine craft experience. Do I need to make a house to hide in before it gets dark!

Your other option is to start at level 1 and collect 10 boar asses to give to a random npc for x number of hours until level cap. The start to Crowfall is weak, but if you join a guild it makes a lot more sense. 

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6 hours ago, beandip said:

woahh woah woah... it takes like 3 months of skill training in combat and race to come anywhere near the "skill" level of another person.  someone with that high level skill tree NAKED with a good weapon could probably fight 4 people in intermediate gear at once and not even break a sweat.

 

were looking at like.. 5% player skill 95% weapons and armor / skills tree.

IMO a highly leveled player with decent armor and skill tree should be like... breaking a sweat trying to kill 2 people in intermediate gear . but... be able to do it.

LOL this is so wrong. Jesus man. in an entire race tree you get like...25 main stat. 

And someone naked with a decent weapon is still missing like 30% of their possible power and is easily defeated by a group of other people. Yikes, this is sad to read your posts

Honestly only some classes atm can 2v1 reliably in better gear, but again you have no idea about the game mechanics, values, and stats lul. 

Edited by Jjusticar

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7 hours ago, ramshack said:

I'm not looking for Welfare gaming. It's not the experience that was pitched during the Kickstarter. I came from Shadowbane and Original Everquest. I dont mind working for progression. I don't mind full loot pvp or even perma death. But I did knot know I was signing up for Mincraft 2.0.

Someone said it better than I did. This is the first experience users have in the game. Punch a tree, make an axe, chop more trees, pound more rocks. That's not the player experience I was expecting from the sales pitch they created. It's boring and I was off the game in 30 minutes. Not to mention there is nothing to tell me how to craft or where the UI options are it was really bad and boring.

I thought I would be singing up for one of the noble houses aligned in one of three factions, as a man at arms maybe I can even start with a poorly made socks sword and leather pads. Maybe one of the noble houses pays me to guard poorly made socks, or kill enemies and I can earn some standard gear. Then as I progress in the game I can decide to grab that axe or pick and train to become a blacksmith. This is just really pidgeon holing everyone into a mine craft experience. Do I need to make a house to hide in before it gets dark!

You signed up for a GROUP BASED MMO. It's almost like an MMO that requires you to work with other people, and its almost like there is a small testing population right now. ITS ALMOST LIKE YOU SHOULD JOIN A GUILD.

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2 hours ago, Jjusticar said:

LOL this is so wrong. Jesus man. in an entire race tree you get like...25 main stat. 

And someone naked with a decent weapon is still missing like 30% of their possible power and is easily defeated by a group of other people. Yikes, this is sad to read your posts

Honestly only some classes atm can 2v1 reliably in better gear, but again you have no idea about the game mechanics, values, and stats lul. 

i don't think you've been a nub for a LOnGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time bro. do you know what its like to get 2 shotted?

every post i see your like always right 100% of the time, the other person has 0 truth YOUR RIGHT BRO MAYBE i exaggerated a little YOU Right

 

omg.. you know what .. maybe what the problem is ... I know dude I haven't joined a GUIlD YET omggg maybe then i wouldtn' get 2 shotted and youd bE RIGht bROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edited by beandip

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