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dolmar

Betting on frost weaver news this week.

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You all go frostweavers, and you’ll give my anti-mage build purpose. It won’t be frostweavers that have the last laugh, it’ll be me! MWHAHAHAHA!


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Well, they showed a Frostweaver being created in the recent UI change preview, so at least we're pretty sure it's still coming. That's something.


Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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On 2/9/2020 at 9:54 AM, Staff said:

im betting on frostweaver news this month

Me too; I'm betting on them announcing it's not coming. It's been way too long without word for there to be anything else to say.


Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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15 hours ago, APE said:

Honestly surprised they've yet to give any real details.

Every company has the right to do their own thing but imagine if all of them did more stuff like this. 

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/44046/dev-discussion-15-favorite-ideal-classes/p1

Asking the customer how to make your product is one of the worst ideas modern business has invented.

When Steve Jobs decided to put a Ding in The Universe he did not ask for somebody's opinion - he pursued his vision. I'll take JTodd's Vision any day over our collective opinion on how the stone grows.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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On 2/19/2020 at 7:02 PM, KDSProm said:

Asking the customer how to make your product is one of the worst ideas modern business has invented.

When Steve Jobs decided to put a Ding in The Universe he did not ask for somebody's opinion - he pursued his vision. I'll take JTodd's Vision any day over our collective opinion on how the stone grows.

In the world there are so many geniuses and so many briliant ideas on every topic, business and invention that never see the light of the day just because people don't want to listen to the community.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the community should create the game but getting the vast amount of ideas from it as developers to inspire themselves or even taking some of the best ones and implementing them as they were presented (if only it wouldn't be intelectual property stealing) woul not hurt and might help to create great mechanics and features in game :) 

There's a limited amount of people creating the game and they have limited abilities and time. Why shouldn't they get some help and use great, innovative ideas that people throw at them for free?

Edited by Aeriav

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On 2/19/2020 at 10:02 AM, KDSProm said:

Asking the customer how to make your product is one of the worst ideas modern business has invented.

When Steve Jobs decided to put a Ding in The Universe he did not ask for somebody's opinion - he pursued his vision. I'll take JTodd's Vision any day over our collective opinion on how the stone grows.

Steve Jobs had a lot of amazing ideas but they weren't all "dings" (remember Ping). Sometimes individuals/companies know what is best for customers and sometimes they don't (no one is going to buy a large phone because you can't get your hand around it).

Looking at the MMO genre specifically, seems it would be in a better position if companies had listened to us instead of going after the dollar. How many WoW clones have there been instead of unique games that came before or at least in the early 00s? How many game changing updates/expansions have come to games that ran players off (UO, SWG, even WoW). Why are smaller studios resorting to crowdfunding instead of doing whatever they want?

I have no doubt devs have great ideas, but they are like us, individuals. What I like probably isn't exactly what you like nor a dev. I see no harm in starting a conversation with a community to at least see where players are coming from. Be it totally open, looking for feedback on a specific topic, polling on what to do next, this vs that, etc. Devs have no reason to blindly do as we suggest, but the black box model seems to result in a lot of issues for everyone involved. We've seen several changes to Crowfall come from player feedback resulting in a better package. ACE has made some questionable decisions out of no where for better or worse.

JTC's vision or what was originally presented was very vague and why there have been so many discussions about how things should go. A "vision" isn't concrete or a product we can enjoy. I have no doubt that they have internal debates on how things should go but a team of ~25 people < 100s of thousands of players wants and wishes that are going to be the ones paying and playing.

I agree asking customers how to make a product isn't wise, but asking what they want is a harmless act and can result in a better final product.

Reminds me of all the home remodeling shows that I've watched here and there. Common theme is home owners thinking they know what is best. They don't grasp their budget, time limit, home layout, design quality overall and would end up with a blah house if left to it themselves. Luckily someone is magically there to help them, take in their wants and wishes and construct something realistic that in the end the owners will enjoy. Instead of designer coming in, doing whatever they think is best, handing over the keys and going "hope you like it." Maybe that works sometimes, but my guess is most customers would prefer to have some influence on something they will be enjoying for years to come.

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22 hours ago, Aeriav said:

In the world there are so many geniuses and so many briliant ideas on every topic, business and invention that never see the light of the day just because people don't want to listen to the community.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the community should create the game but getting the vast amount of ideas from it as developers to inspire themselves or even taking some of the best ones and implementing them as they were presented (if only it wouldn't be intelectual property stealing) woul not hurt and might help to create great mechanics and features in game :) 

There's a limited amount of people creating the game and they have limited abilities and time. Why shouldn't they get some help and use great, innovative ideas that people throw at them for free?

By no means pursuing a vision means to not listen :)

@APEdemocracy it's a failure - it only worked when it had an enemy - the communist block. Nowadays it's obvious that people would rather 'eat' each other if they have no outside threat. As such the chances to get a response out of a broad spectrum population that is satisfying said population is close to impossible. You will still get a "majority'' and a minority. Not hard o guess who is the loudest - the ones that did not get their way - and then product needs adjusting again. It never ends and it's pointless.

If you have a dream - put it down - get whomever resonates with your dream and keep marching.


Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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and btw Hitler did it very well - we may not like what he has done ( I personally do not) but he has applied that principle and he has managed to create a product that has changed the world.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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4 hours ago, KDSProm said:

By no means pursuing a vision means to not listen :)

@APEdemocracy it's a failure - it only worked when it had an enemy - the communist block. Nowadays it's obvious that people would rather 'eat' each other if they have no outside threat. As such the chances to get a response out of a broad spectrum population that is satisfying said population is close to impossible. You will still get a "majority'' and a minority. Not hard o guess who is the loudest - the ones that did not get their way - and then product needs adjusting again. It never ends and it's pointless.

If you have a dream - put it down - get whomever resonates with your dream and keep marching.

Game development is clearly not a democracy. Listening to feedback or rather opening up communication to receive it has nothing to do with democracy. Ultimately devs and studio/company take all the risk and make the final decisions, it is their future and livelihoods on the line. 

Look at the link I provided. It is simply asking what classes people have enjoyed playing and an assumed asking of why. AoC class system with 64 "classes" leaves a lot of potential to draw from other games and roles people have enjoyed across games. This has nothing to do with satisfying the population, majority/minority, or any of that. I've seen several suggestions here how to make Promos much more interesting then what we have that don't require reinventing the wheel. Might be 1/10000 ideas but they are out there.

I personally wouldn't hand money over to any of these projects if devs had zero intention of using our feedback or at least being welcoming to it. I can just as easily wait for the finished product and decide then if it is worth my money. None of these devs individually have proven they can produce a product that I will enjoy or that can last. Sure they might have been the minds or part of the teams that made some good games, but these games aren't made by single individuals.

Luckily the studios have at least attempted to take feedback to a point and again, we already seen changes (improvements) made because of it. Hopefully Frostweaver is worth the wait as it might be one of the more original classes. If not, I'm sure we'll provide feedback for the devs to use or not.

Blindly creating a game and relying on whatever population that it might attract can work, but pretty sure every MMO I've played has grown with players in mind. Not a tunnel vision dev. Doesn't mean everyone is going to be happy, but I'd rather seem games have a future then have to close the doors because devs believe their dream is the only option.

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9 hours ago, KDSProm said:

Could be a matter of perspective. For me - EVERY major principle that has drawn me to Crowfall is very much in place.

For me it was the hope of deep character building, great combat/siege/conquest system, Risk v Reward, and meaningful PVP and so far all are lacking without much announced to change. Big picture principles might have been achieved (they said they'd have PVP and there is PVP), but the quality of the experience hasn't been what I expected from this team for a modern game. It is my perspective though and I have high standards for games when devs hype them to the moon.

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16 minutes ago, APE said:

For me it was the hope of deep character building, great combat/siege/conquest system, Risk v Reward, and meaningful PVP and so far all are lacking without much announced to change. Big picture principles might have been achieved (they said they'd have PVP and there is PVP), but the quality of the experience hasn't been what I expected from this team for a modern game. It is my perspective though and I have high standards for games when devs hype them to the moon.

For me it was deep intricacies between Gathering, Crafting, Logistics, PvP  and Politics - because I find it as a good enough base to build upon. Great combat/siege/conquest system, Risc vs Reward and meaningful PvP can always be modified/added/expanded upon if the first are in place. Because for me the Deep Intricacies are the foundation for social interaction in an MMO. Pixels come and go. Emotions (human interaction) will keep people in game. If you fail the social/community building mechanics in an MMO - it's no longer an MMO and it will die out no matter how many pvp players will have at the start - they will run out of targets. DF and Albion failed miserably at intricacies. EvE did a much better job there.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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