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dolmar

Betting on frost weaver news this week.

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12 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

For me it was deep intricacies between Gathering, Crafting, Logistics, PvP  and Politics.

Albion failed miserably at intricacies

You need people gathering, crafting, and PVPing. I don't see how it is very deep. I don't see a huge difference between CF and Albion beyond AO has full looting so death is more painful and the need for a flowing economy is greater. See much less value in an out of guild economy in Crowfall for Dregs. 

Have yet to see any real politics happening.

Not sure what you mean by Logistics exactly, but the degree of strategy and intricacies between the roles doesn't seem all that complex. Hoping the next update provides more in these areas though.

I still believe basic things like quality of combat, character/class design, and reason for PVPing are going to be what draw and keep people around just as much. Could come with time, but the devs seem rather satisfied with what they've created and the small community seems to either not have high standards or just content on accepting it is what it is.

For people coming from any number of other games that weren't made 15+ years ago, Crowfall might not be up to par and they might not stick around long enough to experience whatever politics, logistics, and more macro side of things. Micro things are what draw people in and keep them engaged initially at least.

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@APELet me try to point out the difference between Albion and Crowfall:
- Albion gathering progression - is bound to High End Resources - that you don;t want touched but by your highest skilled Gatherer so he can become better. If anyone else is gathering it - then you loose progression speed.
- Albion Crafting - identical to gathering.
- Albion PvP progression is bound to PvE farming - making the Amount/Minute of Stats progression limited and - thus you can only have your highest skilled players - keep getting better - if you allow that exp to be spent horizontally in the guild you loose progression speed.
- Albion territorial COntrol over Gathering and PvE EXP - was bound to 5 people or 10 people - so you need to keep growing your 5 or 10.
- All above activities can be covered more then well by a small group of 20-40 very active people.

DF was pretty much the same.

Those three major pillars in an mmo make any non power player - an actual drag on guild progression.

That mechanic makes small 20-40 man guilds extremely effective while the game is meant to be an MMO - the two don't go well together.

Crowfall - up to this point - has, for me, the best social building systems to date - except crafting - that needs fixing in that regard.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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6 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

@APELet me try to point out the difference between Albion and Crowfall:
- Albion gathering progression - is bound to High End Resources - that you don;t want touched but by your highest skilled Gatherer so he can become better. If anyone else is gathering it - then you loose progression speed.
- Albion Crafting - identical to gathering.
- Albion PvP progression is bound to PvE farming - making the Amount/Minute of Stats progression limited and - thus you can only have your highest skilled players - keep getting better - if you allow that exp to be spent horizontally in the guild you loose progression speed.
- Albion territorial COntrol over Gathering and PvE EXP - was bound to 5 people or 10 people - so you need to keep growing your 5 or 10.
- All above activities can be covered more then well by a small group of 20-40 very active people.

DF was pretty much the same.

Those three major pillars in an mmo make any non power player - an actual drag on guild progression.

That mechanic makes small 20-40 man guilds extremely effective while the game is meant to be an MMO - the two don't go well together.

Crowfall - up to this point - has, for me, the best social building systems to date - except crafting - that needs fixing in that regard.

I don't really see a huge difference from my experience. Despite the effectiveness of of small number in Albion, guilds and alliances are still made up of hundreds if not thousands of players. Bit different as it is one game world vs multiple campaigns, but it isn't like 280/300 players are useless and not contributing/progressing in Albion. Both have limited mobs to fight, resources to gather, people to fight, POI to capture, etc.

Crowfall won't function the same for various reasons, but we'll most likely see A-B-C team squads with the good players being fed gear by others (this already happens). With new/less skilled players being meat shields, padding the numbers, and providing the resources needed for victory. Guilds aren't going to be filled with hundreds of players all rocking legendary gear, being the shot callers, all making THE plays that matter, etc. Grunts will be grunts.

This is how most group based MMOs work.

I actually like that a small guild with good dedicated players can actually control territory and make a name for themselves in Albion. I don't really see a 20-40 player guild achieving much in Crowfall unless the campaign continues to have ~200 players active and or the mechanics play out that small guilds are just as effective as 200-500+ ones. Crowfall rewards the super complex strategy of zerging everything...

The high value of Crowfall alt accounts and passive training remove the importance of specializing and roles in some ways. Unlike Albion where you have to really focus in and actually put in the time training whatever. Despite wanting to focus on PVP, I have multiple accounts that can be used to craft that require almost zero time/effort. To me that isn't helping build social systems. Harvesting/Combat aren't far behind but you do have to actually go out and do those things in the world though.

Have you played Albion recently? Much has changed for the better from beta/launch. Still not my ideal game (don't like point n click) but I still log in once in a while to mess around. Never was A squad player doing 5v5 but never felt like I wasn't useful to my guild either.

Neither system is perfect, but I like a lot about Albion from my time with it. Will be interesting to see how the Dregs and other systems work in the next update.

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I know Albion is no longer what it was - and many systems have improved - however the fact that those devs have made so many bad choices - Ending at launch with ' Carleon - one city to lag them all' - has only shown their lack of <insert word form the many that would fit> . I have not touched that game since beta 1 and never will. 

You may feel it's similar Albion to Crowfall - I feel it's vastly different and Crowfall has an actual chance to be an MMO.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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3 hours ago, KDSProm said:

I know Albion is no longer what it was - and many systems have improved - however the fact that those devs have made so many bad choices - Ending at launch with ' Carleon - one city to lag them all' - has only shown their lack of <insert word form the many that would fit> . I have not touched that game since beta 1 and never will. 

You may feel it's similar Albion to Crowfall - I feel it's vastly different and Crowfall has an actual chance to be an MMO.

Beta 1 was 3 years ago or more, can't remember exactly. While a lot of the core game still persists almost every aspect has grown for the better along with a lot of new features and content. Would be like judging Crowfall for the game state during the first campaign. If Crowfall launches and grows in a similar way I wouldn't be unhappy. If it stays what it is similar to Albions beta, and devs don't improve many areas, I'll be moving on. 

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3 hours ago, APE said:

Will be interesting to see how the Dregs and other systems work in the next update.

That's what I am waiting for. What I really want to see is details of VIP and cash store. That can be a make or break for me no matter how the next update plays out. 

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15 minutes ago, APE said:

Beta 1 was 3 years ago or more, can't remember exactly. While a lot of the core game still persists almost every aspect has grown for the better along with a lot of new features and content. Would be like judging Crowfall for the game state during the first campaign. 

For me it has nothing to do with the state of the game play Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Launch. It has everything to do with the principles that guide the development. That is where I feel there is a very distinct approach and that difference gives me confidence in Crowfall.

Edited by KDSProm

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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Let me try to give more details on what I mean.
Human motivation can be based on Endorphins or Dopamine OR it can be based Serotonin or Oxytocin. Different ways to mess with the human mind - I prefer the last 2.
You can see some details here: 

 

 


Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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5 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

For me it has nothing to do with the state of the game play Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, Launch. It has everything to do with the principles that guide the development. That is where I feel there is a very distinct approach and that difference gives me confidence in Crowfall.

What does this even mean? If the gameplay is bad from pre-alpha to launch, then the principles that guided the development were bad.

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1 minute ago, mystafyi said:

What does this even mean? If the gameplay is bad from pre-alpha to launch, then the principles that guided the development were bad.

Maybe my second post will shed some light on your question. It's about which kind of human behavior you reward through your game mechanics.
1. Dopamine - direct greed - more power, more kills, more everything selfish.
2. Serotonin and Oxytocin - when it's about others and how a result of one or few can be the result of the effort of many.
I feel Crowfall has always been doing a good job at implementing mechanics that take the nr 2 into account as well.


Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.org

 

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39 minutes ago, mystafyi said:

That's what I am waiting for. What I really want to see is details of VIP and cash store. That can be a make or break for me no matter how the next update plays out. 

Ya it is a bit surprising that such things haven't been at least gone over a bit more if actual specifics aren't available. Selling items with little to no description of what they are (VIP) seems like they are asking for trouble. I hope they offer refunds/trades when it finally is announced. VIP could be straight pay for advantage and be a one way ticket for me out of here. 

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9 minutes ago, KDSProm said:

Maybe my second post will shed some light on your question. It's about which kind of human behavior you reward through your game mechanics.
1. Dopamine - direct greed - more power, more kills, more everything selfish.
2. Serotonin and Oxytocin - when it's about others and how a result of one or few can be the result of the effort of many.
I feel Crowfall has always been doing a good job at implementing mechanics that take the nr 2 into account as well.

While I'd prefer a game that does both, IMO people and gamers put #1 first and #2 second. Will have to check that talk out, looks interesting. Really hope this update adds in multiple means to achieve something for the whole while rewarding the individual as well.

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