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Allowing Players To Sell Subs In Game Is P2W


RickyP602
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Am I the only one that thinks this? It seems unreasonable to me to think anything else. Someone who has the money to sell subs will obviously have a leg up on players that don't. Especially with a player driven economy. They go through all the trouble in the payment faq to make it clear they do not want this game to be p2w. Then a few bullets down I see this. I haven't been able to find a single post about this topic, and I think there should be more. While I agree that forcing a player to sell subs to another player for resources, instead of outright offering them for cash, is not strictly speaking selling resources. It is, however, the next closest thing. IMHO, this feature should not make it into the game.

Edited by RickyP602
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as a Player only...i'm curious...

 

it's worked just fine for EVE, using almost the same Model, so what exactly is your problem here...i mean why, what do you consider a "win" by being able to sell "time" to another Player so they can Trade another Player for the benefits of ViP status rather than directly paying for the month?

 

am i missing something?

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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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The thing about this one is that by P2W, people imply better gear. Being as they have already said that the skills are going to be time based, that isn't effected by trade of VIP. If people can sell VIP status, thats great. And they can get materials out of it, wonderful. But they can't really do anything with those materials if we said you needed to have a certain time-based skill to use those materials and get better gear. If they could just sell VIP materials and instantly be able to use the materials for better armor, then people get displeased. But from my understanding, the way Moderators and hints of development bring in EVE for basic conversation, then I'm not worried about P2W. They obviously studied a game that made it work.

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There is always a thread about this subject. I would suggest reading it and looking at the different opinions about the subject or I could just copy and paste my exact post from there onto this thread.

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to be clear...we Mods know EXACTLY the same as you folks do, from the same source...what's been Revealed...

 

just for the Record

 

carry on...

FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Am I the only one that thinks this? It seems unreasonable to me to think anything else. 

No, no you are not. Browse the forums for more than a minute. I have seen probably have a dozen new posts today about this.

 

Someone who has the money to sell subs will obviously have a leg up on players that don't. Especially with a player driven economy. They go through all the trouble in the payment faq to make it clear they do not want this game to be p2w. Then a few bullets down I see this. 

Actually, they won't. All they have is VIP tickets, whereas the other player has all the resources, skills, and experience from time spent. In fact, the other player doesn't even have to trade for the VIP ticket. They don't get an extra leg up, they are not getting any special new gear. Also, have you seen the benefits for the VIP ticket??? The main reason I could think of for getting one would be to support ACE not for the benefits. I'd be hard pressed to trade for one.

The tickets do not make the game P2W. The person still has to trade and progress their character. In fact, this mechanic is a nice balance for those who don't have time but have money, and those who have time but not money.

 

 

 I haven't been able to find a single post about this topic, and I think there should be more. 

That's a lie, there are PLENTY more. 

I feel like at this point ACE should include in the pricing FAQ how the VIP tickets don't make the game p2w.

 

 

While I agree that forcing a player to sell subs to another player for resources, instead of outright offering them for cash, is not strictly speaking selling resources. It is, however, the next closest thing. IMHO, this feature should not make it into the game.

I'm actually okay with it being in the game, it gives people who don't have as much money the ability to get all the nice premium rewards.

 

There is always a thread about this subject. I would suggest reading it and looking at the different opinions about the subject or I could just copy and paste my exact post from there onto this thread.

There is indeed always one. I even went through the effort to find a few:

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2082-trading-vip-membership-to-other-players-and-possible-associated-problems/

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2120-meh-another-game-going-with-legalized-rmt/

A little bit in this thread http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2076-pricing-model/

 

Life is not a Destination  -- Enjoy the Journey

Stand back, then, my friend. Stand back, watch and learn.

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On an overall economical standpoint a system like this has proven to have virtually no impact on the economic health of a game. This system doesn't insert new currency into the economy but rather facilitates the transfer of currency already earned in game. Then, once the VIP is used it's removed from the economy entirely. It just moves X gold from player A to player B. Moreover, the sad reality is that regardless of what ACE ultimately chooses to do with the economy, gold farmers will be selling currency and will impact the game as well. However, they use hacked/stolen accounts to do their selling. If there is no serious economic impact of selling VIP tickets and players are willing to pay - and also generate revenue for ACE - I think it's going to be ok. I certainly do respect player concerns though, for sure.

 

This guy from another thread said it well.

Life is not a Destination  -- Enjoy the Journey

Stand back, then, my friend. Stand back, watch and learn.

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Another one of these huh ...

 

Ok, I'll keep it short this time

 

You are confusing Pay 2 win with Pay 4 Convenience .... you are simply transferring a purchased item from player A to player B for a in game currency of some sort. There is no advantage, only a convenience as the item traded for was already in the game and just transferred "hands."

 

So unless they actually show something that really is advantageous and really Pay 2 win, can we shut the fark up about this already??

Edited by sarin

 


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I cannot believe how dumb some people in this community are. Buying VIP with real money and selling it ingame for resources is pay to win. 

Edited by Eldreth
Please don't circumvent the profanity filter or belittle other users.
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If somebody wants to use 10,000 dollars on in-game currencies and resources, they'll do that with or without official support on the matter. I'm fairly sure there'd be a supplier if the demanded amount of capital is met.

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I cannot believe how dumb some people in this community are. Buying VIP with real money and selling it ingame for resources is pay to win. If you cannot see that then I am sorry because life must've been and must be really fu(king hard for you.

WTF you going to win over someone who doesn't buy and sell a VIP? ... you don't see the limited market VIP tickets will be? They don't gain anything that is already in the game, it just exchanged player hands.  I could go on and on, but I don't think your mind will open up wide enough to take it all in. Matter of fact, I will say at this point the 15 bucks isn't even worth spending with what they have showed us. No matter what they put in the VIP the people who can't obtain it are going to complain about it.

 

Anyone who disagrees with you is "dumb?" That won't help your case in trying to convince people you are right and they are wrong. Instead of calling people dumb, why don't you put forth some suggestions of "perks" worth paying the 15 bucks for, I mean everyone else is dumb, so help us out here.

 

My life is actually filled with a wonderful wife, 2 young boys and a great career. /shrug

Edited by sarin

 


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In most traditional mmos, I would tend to roll my eyes at this kind of post. Because, a traditional mmo doesn't really have a "win" condition. However, this game does. It borrows from the rts game genre in the sense that it becomes a bit of a race for resources once the campaign resets. So, I can actually see how spending real money for VIP passes and trading them for resources can be seen as p2w. We'll have to wait and see if that actually happens or not.

 

There is still a lot to be revealed about this game so we shouldn't rush to judgement. I believe that this game has very competent leadership who will have thought this all through. At this point.. I'm not too concerned about this issue.

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I cannot believe how dumb some people in this community are. Buying VIP with real money and selling it ingame for resources is pay to win.

No it isn't. What, specifically, gives that person an advantage? So they have some resources... great. Now what does it do for their skill?

 

What business model do you suggest?

Edited by Eldreth

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I cannot believe how dumb some people in this community are. Buying VIP with real money and selling it ingame for resources is pay to win.

How do you propose stopping this and other means of Pay-2-Win?

 

It will happen, and the game developer might as well do as EvE did, and benefit from it. Plus, thee are many more forms of P2W, than just selling in-game time or items for real money.

 

Having Multiple Accounts is a paid for advantage.

Having Multiple Monitors is a paid for advantage.

Having Gaming devices (mouse, keyboard, headset) with programmable hot keys is a paid for advantage.

Having a Private VOIP and or Website is a paid for advantage.

Having a Paypal Account is an advantage (if you're looking to sell in-game items).

 

None of these can be stopped by the developer, and they clearly get a benefit from multiple accounts, they are for profit.

Edited by Eldreth
Just cleaning up the quoted text.
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WTF you going to win over someone who doesn't buy and sell a VIP? ... you don't see the limited market VIP tickets will be? They don't gain anything that is already in the game, it just exchanged player hands. I could go on and on, but I don't think your mind will open up wide enough to take it all in. Matter of fact, I will say at this point the 15 bucks isn't even worth spending with what they have showed us. No matter what they put in the VIP the people who can't obtain it are going to complain about it.

 

Anyone who disagrees with you is "dumb?" That won't help your case in trying to convince people you are right and they are wrong. Instead of calling people dumb, why don't you put forth some suggestions of "perks" worth paying the 15 bucks for, I mean everyone else is dumb, so help us out here.

 

My life is actually filled with a wonderful wife, 2 young boys and a great career. /shrug

Lol I'm talking about selling the VIP to other players and getting in game resources I.E. I pay money for in game items. That is pay to win. I'm not talking about the VIP itself. 

 

No it isn't. What, specifically, gives that person an advantage? So they have some resources... great. Now what does it do for their skill?What business model do you suggest?

I'm not explaining this to you again. Read what I told you in the last thread.

How do you propose stopping this and other means of Pay-2-Win?

It will happen, and the game developer might as well do as EvE did, and benefit from it. Plus, thee are many more forms of P2W, than just selling in-game time or items for real money.

Having Multiple Accounts is a paid for advantage.

Having Multiple Monitors is a paid for advantage.

Having Gaming devices (mouse, keyboard, headset) with programmable hot keys is a paid for advantage.

Having a Private VOIP and or Website is a paid for advantage.

Having a Paypal Account is an advantage (if you're looking to sell in-game items).

None of these can be stopped by the developer, and they clearly get a benefit from multiple accounts, they are for profit.

Advantages are fine, the issue is how they are obtained.

Edited by Eldreth
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Lol I'm talking about selling the VIP to other players and getting in game resources I.E. I pay money for in game items. That is pay to win. I'm not talking about the VIP itself. Boy do i feel bad for your children. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I'm not explaining this to you again. Read what I told you in the last thread.

Advantages are fine, the issue is how they are obtained.

 

Dear font of infinite wisdom zeonx, how is obtaining an advantage through having more money by buying better hardware any different from buying in game stuff from other players with tradable VIP tokens.

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Dear font of infinite wisdom zeonx, how is obtaining an advantage through having more money by buying better hardware any different from buying in game stuff from other players with tradable VIP tokens.

Is this a serious question.

 

 

The issue is having a condoned method of converting cash into ingame resources. This is something that can be easily avoided unlike your example.

Edited by Zeonx
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