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ACE_JackalBark

Pre-Alpha 5 Live! - Official Discussion Thread

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12 hours ago, Nyamo said:

I know these are really small, but still I do not get the rationale behind certain decisions. If all this stuff will be wiped soon anyway why don't wipe it again? and again? and again?

To me seems most of the decisions taken here are to avoid people who invest lot of time in to the game to get angry and upset (who will suffer most from a wipe? only players that have invested a lot of time in the game). As someone who is in direct touch with new players daily i feel that if we start slowly take directions towards them (new players will benefit way more of a wipe, cause they will not feel "behind" skill progression and "legacy" item barrier) it will benefit the community a lot more.

If we manage to get new players feel important as much as old ones we will probably have a more lively community, which will then turn into a larger word of mouth and positive feedback on external networks like other gaming communities/websites and such.

See, you think I am worrying of a small thing (some legacy items), while I am already planning 3-4 steps ahead. Sure, my predictions may be off, but I think devs need more support in the forum in the mean of a "new" player base more willing to take "risks" for "dicey" decisions.

A wipe on the 5.7 changes would strip from ACE the ability to gauge the effectiveness of the decay changes for several release cycles.  With a few over the top items in play, they will be able to have some idea of what things will be like if over the top items leak into the live game, when global wipes are not an option.

It will give them an idea of the attrition and decay rate that all items will be subject to, over and above the petty little issues related to one or two things.

We are in pre-alpha, and balance swings has been described by ACE as "whiplash inducing" during this phase.  

Bottom line, it's far more important to test the systems that are operational, and how they interact, which required interested players to do, than to keep a few players from being butt hurt about winning/losing in alpha.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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36 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Bottom line, it's far more important to test the systems that are operational, and how they interact, which required interested players to do, than to keep a few players from being butt hurt about winning/losing in alpha.

He's already threatened to take his ball and leave.


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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46 minutes ago, mandalore said:

He's already threatened to take his ball and leave.

Very hard to follow the motivation and reasoning.

Pre-alpha wipes are important for new players for them to feel like the game is accessible, BUT getting your bases raided and losing hours of effort while you sleep is a good mechanic. The second is WAY worse than the first, and the reasoning is not internally consistent at all.

What perhaps isn't really getting through, is that in pre-Alpha ACE isn't even focusing on getting new players.  It's an invitation to participate not a sales pitch at this point.  Too much concern about new players at this point is just cart before the horse.

I suspect I understand the motivation, but I would probably get a warning for pointing out what I really think it is.

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14 hours ago, Nyamo said:

@thomasblair

On topic of legacy items again, I just had a conversation on Discord with @mandalore @Tark @Jah and few others. I do not want to bother you with details so i will get straight to the point.

Don't you think that leaving legacy items will just motivate players to stockpile them knowing that they won't be available anymore? Try to imagine someone making a spirit bank full of "punch drunk". I mean, if your "official" stance is to "allow" legacy items, players may just think that there is nothing wrong in stockpiling them and they may even find added value due to the psycological rule of "scarcity" (from Cialdini's persuasion theory).

Point is, wouldn't this hinder the very reason you are trying to remove them in the first place?

I think it is really a difficult decision. From a side you have to try to do your best old players do not get frustrated by another wipe (and i think there will probably be one in 5.8, right?), from the other, leaving them in the game will just give you false feedback on the new status of the game, since the data are contaminated by the usage of legacy items.

Sometimes I think I may just have to shut up, but at the same time I do not think that avoiding to talk about a problem is the best way to solve it. Now, assuming your final decision as a team is not to wipe and then allowing legacy items, as a human person, who is working hard to get a game done, what would you like us player to do? Keep using these legacy items? Or just avoid using them?

 

Thier reasoning on these decisions is very clear, and has been stated many many many times in the past.

Wipe only when they feel it is absolutely NECESSARY. 

There was no hard decision to make, because a wipe is not necessary, so it's not going to happen.

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Pre-alpha wipes are important for new players for them to feel like the game is accessible

This is absurd.  I don't get this logical fallacy. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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2 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Thier reasoning on these decisions is very clear, and has been stated many many many times in the past.

Wipe only when they feel it is absolutely NECESSARY. 

There was no hard decision to make, because a wipe is not necessary, so it's not going to happen.

Guess I was wrong. Something in 5.7 is making the wipe's necessary.

1 hour ago, Pann said:

Yes, there will be a complete wipe - skills, Spirit Banks, EKs -- when 5.7 is deployed to LIVE. I'm nor able to give an ETA yet on when that will happen, but we're really close. Please watch for snap test announcements and pile in if you can. That will help us get 5.7 LIVE-worthy much faster. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

BUT getting your bases raided and losing hours of effort while you sleep is a good mechanic.

Well I thought we were enough off-topic on the first thread but you are bringing it off-top here as well. Let me reiterate really fast.

1. If you plan to play only in prime-time hours and you do not want the conflict to happen while you sleep I understand and I am happy the devs will implement a system so you can be safe while you sleep. Not all players like this and some like to have 24/7 conflict. To each his own.

2. Limiting access to some part of the game to people who would have real-life issues due to time-zone/night shifts etc. is not a good player experience for these players.

There is no harm in having a campaign tailored for people in point 1 and 2, while you can enjoy your prime-time raiding.

9 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Too much concern about new players at this point is just cart before the horse.

I suspect I understand the motivation, but I would probably get a warning for pointing out what I really think it is.

Could you please care to elaborate? I do not understand what you are trying to say.

10 hours ago, mandalore said:

He's already threatened to take his ball and leave.

i haven't threatened anyone. I just said that if I will feel excluded to some mechanics of the game due to real life issues and artificial barriers I would likely leave. This is by no mean  threatening someone. 


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