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Say No to Shadowbane Style Mines


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The idea is old and static, with many flaws that have been laid out in different threads.  Search it if you want to know what an SB style mine is, but it’s not necessary for the rest of this discussion.

This is what I believe a night should be like in Crowfall. 

Guild is online doing what guilds do.
**World Event Message** A fissure has just opened up in Srathor Swamp.
(The fissure would represent a significant benefit, worth fighting to claim it.)
Guilds form up and head to the fissure.

The first thing a guild needs to do is to establish a base of operations (A keep perhaps) near the fissure to fight from.
For that you need materials:  a supply line from your closest stockpile of materials should then be established.
(I picture someone loading a caravan that travels x meters outside of the source location and then warps to x meters outside of the destination, which means you would have to protect it on either end, but we're not talking an extremely long time to get things going, as this is a nightly event and not a big siege.)
Supplies arrive, a keep is built and the tools needed to process the material to be gathered are also created.

In theory, if 2+ guilds are contesting the same node, you've now created a regional hungerdome that will last for a couple of hours, depending on how efficiently the resources have been captured amid the fighting.  My personal opinion is that something along the lines of sending out NPC miners to harvest back and forth between the processing facilities in your keep while defending them would be ideal.  I'm aware, however that many people would prefer that actual players do that action, which I'm not totally against. 

Details:
*Caravans are on a timer. (You can only send 1 every 10-20 minutes or so, having a scout that times the enemies resupply might be important).
*Players respawn at their closest major asset.
*New players and respawning players can re-enter the region by riding the Caravan.
*It would require siege equipment to breach the walls of a keep. (meaning you'd have prioritize that material over other things on your caravan.)
*Processed materials would be put on a returning caravan in the same manor, requiring protection.
*After the reason for initially being there is over the keeps would require upkeep, perhaps kept for regional control, dismantled for raw material, or left to rot.

Additions:
I picture a groups forward keep expanding based on the needs and intensity of the fight.  I initially pictured, if the fight drags on, crafting stations being built for crafters to come forward and resupply gear but that concept is counter to the current design of the game.

Personally I think that the participants in these battles should be clear and whats historically been called "scroaching" should be limited by debuffing anyone entering the region that isn't a member of a guild with assets built.

A system should be concieved where several of these events happen each night.  However, the strongest guilds should be most interested in only one of them, allowing lesser guilds to fight over the other ones. 

To me, it seems like in most events like this, all sides that made a serious attempt should walk away with some of the loot.  Perhaps, when you build your keep in that reagion, "pockets" of that rare resource can be discovered while building the foundation, at varying degrees based on RNG.  The reason for this is just a little more incentive to nudge people in the direction of deciding to attempt it.

 

 

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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Getting back on track, I can't stress enough that hitting rocks for hours isn't how I want to spend my game time, and that seems to be necessary for supplying crafters with what they need to keep ever

Ok, I stopped reading this thread around page 8 (and didn't read each post meticulously), so forgive me for addressing the elephant in the room if it's already been addressed...   Nyamo, do

First, I like the idea. But, the key to PvP health is variety, in my opinion. This should be in, SB style mines should be in, 24-hour active mines that cannot be captured should be in, hot spots

I think you can rest assured that Shadowbane mines won't happen in Crowfall. Even if Mines generate resources without players manually harvesting the resources, they will still need to be "caravaned" across the map by players.

NPC caravans that run back and forth and need to be escorted (and can be raided) would be awesome, but I doubt it is reasonable to expect that kind of feature to be added before soft launch. It could be added later though.

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I like where you're going with this. I'd like to see PoIs (Lumber Mill, Quarry, Mine) all produce a large chunk of resources on a 2-4 hour timer. Different building produce different materials with the quality dependent on the parcel rank. There is a zone-wide toast message which prompts nearby players to go to the adventure zone and caravan out the resource chunk. A special harvesting building at a keep would allow a trained harvester to turn the chunk into a large quantity of resources, with the final quality being dependent on the original quality of the resource item and the gatherer's processing skill. This would NOT be a way to obtain minerals, gems or heartwood and would still require a trained gatherer to even process the materials. 

The main reason something like this is attractive at all is that many prospective players I've spoken with (and others have shared this experience) aren't interested in spending most of their in game time hitting rocks. I've tried explaining to people that it's not that bad, and that with a small group and endgame skills you can churn out high quality resources every night.

There's two main problems with the experience. The first is thematic, in that most players want to embody a heroic fantasy when they play these types of games. Being an explorer, prospector or caravan master is one thing, but being one of the peons doing the hard labor isn't really part of that fantasy. The other reason comes down to the monotony of the experience overall. We all go and harvest regularly because we're diehard fans who find it tolerable, (especially with fast training times) but most of us are using alternate accounts and wouldn't chose to do it otherwise. Probably 1 in 10 players actually enjoys the harvesting side of things as is, and I don't see this game attracting a great number of players who actually want to dedicate their skill training to it. The work will get done, but it will be done grudgingly. That's no bueno. 

The exploration tree should be about exploration. Give us the ability to be prospectors who stake a claim out in the world, not the rube who does the grunt work. Hell, in the ancient world they would send SLAVES to do the actual mining. What does that tell you?

On another point, I'd like to see Fort capture points move to vulnerability window system, determined by the Fort owners. For faction servers, the different faction players could bid on a desired time, or just allow the guild which contributed most to the capture the ability to set the window. It would make sense to do it by guild, as the controlling guild would be more likely to show up to defend the fort if they get to set vulnerability window. The idea being that when you capture a fort, you get to choose from a range of times appropriate to the server region (no 2 AM fights). The next day, at the appointed time, the Fort becomes vulnerable to capture (or destruction on a Dregs server) for 1-2 hours after which the new owners gets to set the next window. 

Outposts would be free capture. 2-5 players.
POI/Adventure Zones would generate materials on a timer, generating caravan pvp. 1-2 groups.
Forts would be nightly fights for 2-4 groups. 
Keeps would be weekly/bi-weekly fights, requiring a siege window, for 5-10+ groups.

If Forts and other bases can just be captured or destroyed at will, your enemies will wait for you to log off and capture them unopposed during off hours. That's weak. 

 

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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4 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

Personally I think that the participants in these battles should be clear and whats historically been called "scroaching" should be limited by debuffing anyone entering the region that isn't a member of a guild with assets built.

This type of shenanigans would just exclude people. 

 

4 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

The first thing a guild needs to do is to establish a base of operations (A keep perhaps) near the fissure to fight from.

For that you need materials:  a supply line from your closest stockpile of materials should then be established.
(I picture someone loading a caravan that travels x meters outside of the source location and then warps to x meters outside of the destination, which means you would have to protect it on either end, but we're not talking an extremely long time to get things going, as this is a nightly event and not a big siege.)
Supplies arrive, a keep is built and the tools needed to process the material to be gathered are also created.

 

How easy to build keeps do you want it to be?  This makes it sound like you just go and build your guilds stronghold in a night.  How would this work in factions cw where you can't free build like proposed in the dregs? 

 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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@souleinAfter pondering that idea for a while the thing I liked most was that an event wouldn't be a one time event.  By having teams build bases in a localized area and opposing eachother over who can get the better share of an available resource, you've effectively ensured a drawn out period (with a target of 3-4 hours during primetime) of reliablely constant action.  A battle that lasts multiple deaths, and several attempts instead of a classic one and done.

To me with this kind of system you don't need a capture a fort mechanic that has some artificial timers.  Just open up the event in a random place in the world within a certain window and let players react.  Static spawns of keeps makes sense when player built keeps are not fully functional yet, but once they are, just give us things to fight over, not taking a keep that nobody has any real investment in.  We can build our own keeps in locations that we find value in, and fight over those.

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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43 minutes ago, soulein said:

The idea being that when you capture a fort, you get to choose from a range of times appropriate to the server region (no 2 AM fights). The next day, at the appointed time, the Fort becomes vulnerable to capture (or destruction on a Dregs server) for 1-2 hours after which the new owners gets to set the next window. 

I have already said this in another thread i want 2AM forts fights and castle sieges.
I don't want to see BDO all over again in which is the server or the devs that decide WHEN you have to play and at WHAT TIME you have to do a certain activity.

If this game is a real "game of throne" simulator, then the ability to structurally organize your guild to be able to cover a 24h span or to arrange alliances to cover the whole day is part of the politic game I want to play. Find 5 guild and make turns to protect that fort at 2am cause that's what you would have to do in real life. Night guards and night-shift have been always a reality and I do not see why we have to play to a defined time arbitrarily decided by someone else.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, mandalore said:

This type of shenanigans would just exclude people.

How easy to build keeps do you want it to be?  This makes it sound like you just go and build your guilds stronghold in a night.  How would this work in factions cw where you can't free build like proposed in the dregs?

The point of that mechanic was quite literally to exclude people so, yes.  It would exclude people that typically only detract from the actual fight.  It makes no sense for A and B to invest the resources necessary to put a stake into the fight and have C come in at an opportune time to benefit from it.  Even if you don't aggree with my solution to that problem, it should be addressed.   To me this is one of the reasons that Shadowbane and Darkfall eventually just degraded into a situation where everyone shows up to every fight, and nobody cared about the meaningful rivalries and conflict.  

I thought about this hard because of course it dawned on me that building a keep would probably need to take 10-15 minutes, with an hour to perhaps put up some defense, and 3 hours to have it in a reletively finished state.  To me the question is how much does it cost you to build that in terms of resources compared to the potential reward.    Of course for my idea to work it would have to be worth it to the player, so high or low that balance would need to be in place. 

Personally I think that a guild should be able to build a base around a point like this in Faction CWs.  The difference would probably be that anyone from the realm could come and participate, what kind of rewards they would come out of it with would be a challenging question.  Guilds are going to be the major players in RVR just as much as GVG.  The only real difference is that in RVR players that have not found their way into a guild or smaller guilds will more easily be able to tag onto the efforts of their realms power houses. 

 

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If you need a mechanic to control the field and lack the military might/skill/ability to win on your own merits then you don't deserve the win.  We have very different memories about what led to the decline in SB.  Mines need to be able to work the same in all the different "bands" that make up the campaigns.  Asking for 5 different mine mechanics for 5 different rules is a hogwash move.  

 

Precluding people not in the club from fights is a good way to tell them to play a different game. 

Edited by mandalore
40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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1 minute ago, mandalore said:

If you need a mechanic to control the field and lack the military might/skill/ability to win on your own merits then you don't deserve the win.  We have every different memories about what led to the decline in SB.  Mines need to be able to work the same in all the different "bands" that make up the campaigns.  Asking for 5 different mine mechanics for 5 different rules is a hogwash move. 

Precluding people not in the club from fights is a good way to tell them to play a different game. 

Your first sentence is chest beating nonsense.  Restriction is present everywhere in the game, and also in every form of real contest, including the ultimate form of War itself.  This kind of rhetoric is what ruins a game.

SB had many chances for revival, each time it was several contributing factors that lead to its downfall.  Depending on what era you played in primarily I can see how you would attribute its downfall to various other things. 

I don't disagree and I'm not proposing that it would work dramatically different on different CW rulesets.  I understood that they said that RVR was the first ruleset to work on because it was the most challenging to program.  I think perhaps where we differ is I believe that the majority of the games players will be playing in the GVG CW's and I also believe that the ideally mechanic for GVG should be adapted for RVR and not the other way around. 

Weakening a persons effective fighting capability in a certain area is far from procluding them from being there, it would just make it so that they would likely be more successful somewhere else.

Since kickstarter Crowfall development has been highlighted with the concept that they are making a game for specific types of people, and if you don't like it, play another game.  So that concept does not scare me.  If your playstyle is dramatically different then what I think will make for a sustainable population in the kind of game I hope CF will be, I couldn't care less.  That said, I feel like I'm more willing then most people to sacrifice my ideal game for the sake of population, because ultimately people are what matters in this type of game.

 

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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I played on Fear, Entropy, Mourning, Vengeance and all the emulated severs.  I played across all the biomes of Shadowbane.  The game had a horrendous launch, had some poorly made sockse early mechanics (bashing assets at 0300), 56k modems were still in use, exploits went unfixed for years, QFT’s cheating and the fact that the community (by design) kills itself.  Mines weren’t perfect, they created windows where people would just log in for the last half of the window or log out if there weren’t fights.  I’m not advocating for a direct replication but excluding smaller less successful guilds or just entirely blocking new people from the Open PvP of the dregs because YOU don’t want to have to deal with people harassing your flanks is just weakness.  

Why would ever want to preclude people from fights?  The more fighting going on the better the game will be.  Asking for buffs so you can is just shameful.  Win off your own merits or don’t win at all bromego.

A variance system is an excellent idea but precluding people so that the people with an advantage get more of an advantage is bleh. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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5 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I played on Fear, Entropy, Mourning, Vengeance and all the emulated severs.  I played across all the biomes of Shadowbane.  The game had a horrendous launch, had some poorly made sockse early mechanics (bashing assets at 0300), 56k modems were still in use, exploits went unfixed for years, QFT’s cheating and the fact that the community (by design) kills itself.  Mines weren’t perfect, they created windows where people would just log in for the last half of the window or log out if there weren’t fights.  I’m not advocating for a direct replication but excluding smaller less successful guilds or just entirely blocking new people from the Open PvP of the dregs because YOU don’t want to have to deal with people harassing your flanks is just weakness.  

Why would ever want to preclude people from fights?  The more fighting going on the better the game will be.  Asking for buffs so you can is just shameful.  Win off your own merits or don’t win at all bromego.

A variance system is an excellent idea but precluding people so that the people with an advantage get more of an advantage is bleh. 

I want to be on your side, and I'm willing to scrap the idea, but I think that this is a case of a design that sounds ideal, is detrimental in reality.  The implication that I'm asking for this for my own gain is short sighted at best.  What I would like to see is lines drawn and wagers made.  There is a price to entry, nobody gets something for nothing.  There is no need for small scale PVP teams being in the large scale PVP fights.  There are mechanics being made specifically for their group size, that will aid in maximizing their fun for the night. 

To me when you have two rival powers, that are fighting over bragging rights and conquest, you only hurt the game by cheapening that battle by having people, thats only interest is to get a few kills or score some loot, interfere. 

If were in a 50v50 over a resource node for the night, that fight could last hours.  If a 20 man group rolls in and flanks either side, especially in the middle or towards the end of our fight, whoever they plow into first is going to lose.  How exactly did you want to handle that?  Bring 70 next time?  This is why I think your concept of merit is misguided.  Even under my plan this could happen, but the 20 man guild would have had to build a keep themselves and risk assets to do it.

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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6 hours ago, Nyamo said:

 

If this game is a real "game of throne" simulator, then the ability to structurally organize your guild to be able to cover a 24h span or to arrange alliances to cover the whole day is part of the politic game I want to play. Find 5 guild and make turns to protect that fort at 2am cause that's what you would have to do in real life. Night guards and night-shift have been always a reality and I do not see why we have to play to a defined time arbitrarily decided by someone else.

 

 

See, that's the thing... You will already have to organize your guild/alliance to cover a number of different forts and strongholds across multiple zones with no fast travel. With forts being vulnerable 24/7, it's unrealistic that anyone will be on at 2AM to cover your assets. The handful of people who ARE on that late will just roll across the map and take all the forts. It's lame, and it doesn't lead to fun fights.

We've learned this lesson in other games, I just hope this doesn't become another "I told you so" moment.

It's entirely possible that these fort mechanics are placeholders and we could see something different in the real campaigns, and something else entirely in the Dregs. @jtoddcoleman and @thomasblair might be able to tell us more.

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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24 minutes ago, soulein said:

With forts being vulnerable 24/7, it's unrealistic that anyone will be on at 2AM to cover your assets.

Get a better structure. An international one, with people in different time zones. We have to stop thinking we have to keep playing with people of our same country and embrace a worldwide organization to protect our structures. If a guild alliance can't do this should perish to alliances that are willing to embrace the efforts taken in keeping a 24/h raiding structure. Is this a game of throne, right? Let's get into politics more instead for asking for a lazy game mechanic like scheduled keeps assaults. In particular, people doing in-real life night shifts or that have an irregular play schedule should be able to enjoy the game in the same way you do.

Anyway I really hope that we will see different rule-set for the campaigns. Like 24/h non-stop siege campaigns to fri/sat/sun night only campaigns. So everyone is happy here and if a guild isn't able to make alliances with guilds in other part of the globe that guild can still enjoy the game. But please let's stop fixing problems that players can fix by themselves by adding artificial barriers to players freedom.

Edited by Nyamo
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2 minutes ago, Nyamo said:

Get a better structure. An international one, with people in different time zones. We have to stop thinking we have to keep playing with people of our same country and embrace a worldwide organization to protect our structures. If a guild alliance can't do this should perish to alliances that are willing to embrace the efforts taken in keeping a 24/h raiding structure. Is this a game of throne, right? Let's get into politics more instead for asking for a lazy game mechanic like scheduled keeps assaults. In particular, people doing in-real life night shifts or that have an irregular play schedule should be able to enjoy the game in the same way you do.

Anyway I really hope that we will see different rule-set for the campaigns. Like 24/h non-stop siege campaigns to fri/sat/sun night only campaigns. So everyone is happy here and if a guild isn't able to make alliances with guilds in other part of the globe that guild can still enjoy the game. But please let's stop fixing problems that players can fix by themselves by adding artificial barriers to players freedom.

Servers won't be locked regionally, but most people on an NA server will be playing on NA timezones. I don't think any alliance ever devised will have the players to lock down an area 24/7. Player freedom? This game thrives because of player agency and sovereignty. More specifically, GUILD agency and sovereignty. Complete player freedom doesn't make for fun gameplay, it just makes a mess. Every game has to have rules and parameters by which it's played. Yes, this game (and games like it) have the interesting quality of pushing those boundaries, but completely eliminating them will make Crowfall a ghost town.

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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12 minutes ago, soulein said:

Servers won't be locked regionally, but most people on an NA server will be playing on NA timezones. I don't think any alliance ever devised will have the players to lock down an area 24/7. Player freedom? This game thrives because of player agency and sovereignty. More specifically, GUILD agency and sovereignty. Complete player freedom doesn't make for fun gameplay, it just makes a mess. Every game has to have rules and parameters by which it's played. Yes, this game (and games like it) have the interesting quality of pushing those boundaries, but completely eliminating them will make Crowfall a ghost town.

I really don't see the problem in having different campaign for people who love 24/7 raiding like me to people who love fri/sat/sun 20PM-22PM raids like you.

Also you underestimate how many people ere emigrants in this world. People that do not live in their home-country but love pvp but they are forced behind artificial barriers like the one you want to build due to time-zone problems. And these people are a market. A market willing to spend money for a game that meet their real life needs. So by your desire of  keeping them out of the game it is you hurting the game profits and the game population, not a campaign with rule-set oriented to these kind of market that only people with these kind of needs would join anyway. Cause people that doesn't have these kind of needs would probably join a fri/sat/sut campaign but a people who can't will simply move to another game. So let these players play crowfall as well and give them a campaign in which they can play without having to worry to their irregular life schedule or time zone in which they live.

EDIT: Try to think of the self-found option in Path of Exile. They decided to implement it because they realized these kind of players play by themselves anyway and they do not hurt the economy since they live in their own ecosystem. So, really, there is no real reason for NOT TO HAVE different time rules for different campaigns.

Edited by Nyamo

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1 minute ago, Nyamo said:

I really don't see the problem in having different campaign for people who love 24/7 raiding like me to people who love fri/sat/sun 20PM-22PM raids like you.

Also you underestimate how many people ere emigrants in this world. People that do not live in their home-country but love pvp but they are forced behind artificial barriers like the one you want to build due to time-zone problems. And these people are a market. A market willing to spend money for a game that meet their real life needs. So by your desire of  keeping them out of the game it is you hurting the game profits and the game population, not a campaign with rule-set oriented to these kind of market that only people with these kind of needs would join anyway. Cause people that doesn't have these kind of needs would probably join a fri/sat/sut campaign but a people who can't will simply move to another game. So let these players play crowfall as well and give them a campaign in which they can play without having to worry to their irregular life schedule or time zone in which they live.

 

Seems like a niche within a niche within a smaller niche. What you're proposing is to design part of the game around some sort of tiny population of players who may or may not show up... all based on your hypothetical. We've seen how many of these ideas played out in other games and we're well aware of what worked and what didn't work (and why). This isn't a "what if" scenario for us. 

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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24 minutes ago, soulein said:

Seems like a niche within a niche within a smaller niche. What you're proposing is to design part of the game around some sort of tiny population of players who may or may not show up... all based on your hypothetical. We've seen how many of these ideas played out in other games and we're well aware of what worked and what didn't work (and why). This isn't a "what if" scenario for us. 

 Sorry I have no intention to brainwash you and I am fine if you stuck with your ideas. Keep them. What is important to me is to leave a feedback here on the forums to the devs so for me this discussion with you ends now because I think I have articulate my point enough to who is in charge here for taking decisions. I just quoted you not to brainwash you but to have a chance to express again my point of something I consider important. Thank you so much for the time you spent replying me. Quoting you served the purpose of explaining my points, thanks again for the opportunity you gave me.

Edited by Nyamo
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They did 24 hour vulnerability at the start of shadowbane (J Todd Coleman’s inspiration for almost all of CF) and it was one of the major reasons for the death of the game early on.  It became about who could sacrifice more real life sick days and stay up to 0300 than it did anything else.  People left in droves over it and made it clear.

It was such an issue that they were forced to change it.  The Window of Opportunity system for banes and mines made it so that there was a designated time frame and thus gave people the opportunity to plan out their real lives and play the game. 

 

European players shouldn’t be forced to play as security guards for the NA servers.  Why wouldn’t you want to play on a EU server and play out your prime times as major forces instead of being delegated as a security guard while the majority of your guild sleeps?

 

 

Edited by mandalore
40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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If they solved the latency problem in the world I could see your argument, and would definately love to play on a truely international server.  Unfortunately I'm not willing to play with a 150+ ping anymore and I wouldnt expect less from anyone else in the world.  I'm not against trying out a ruleset CW that does it but I think people are more likely to go where the population is, and this server would be a novalty at best. 

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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9 hours ago, mandalore said:

They did 24 hour vulnerability at the start of shadowbane (J Todd Coleman’s inspiration for almost all of CF) and it was one of the major reasons for the death of the game early on.  It became about who could sacrifice more real life sick days and stay up to 0300 than it did anything else.  People left in droves over it and made it clear.

It was such an issue that they were forced to change it.  The Window of Opportunity system for banes and mines made it so that there was a designated time frame and thus gave people the opportunity to plan out their real lives and play the game. 

 

European players shouldn’t be forced to play as security guards for the NA servers.  Why wouldn’t you want to play on a EU server and play out your prime times as major forces instead of being delegated as a security guard while the majority of your guild sleeps?

 

 

Mandalore, do not get me wrong. I do think that both past and history should tach us lessons and the whole human culture and evolution is made from conserving and evolving all the experience our predecessors have accumulated in the past and it our "purpose" as human being to keep moving forward.

I understand very well your concerns but you can't really make a comparison between Shadowbane and Crowall. There reason is because Shadowbane didn't have campaigns. So the 24h vulnerability you remember were applied to the whole game population.

Crowfall thanks god have campaigns. So we can have fri/sat/sun 20-22PM vulnerability campaigns and 24h campaign and each players can chose to play were he wants.

I do not understand why you have to believe that what you think is best for you is best for everyone. Take me for example. I am italian and i live in Japan. If i want to play with some italian friends I am 100% out of any sieging in the case Crowfall implements limited time-frame sieging campaigns and by no way I can siege with them due to time zone change.
And there is plenty of people out there that live abroad, do night-shifts at work or have a family or are freelance and have an irregular schedule.

Since we can have different campaign with different ruleset I do not understand why you want to force everyone to play by your rules. Let anyone play the game the way it fits their real life schedule and not the opposite. If me and other players want to be in a 24h hours siege environment let us be. 

Lastly, from a pure economical point of view, as I already said to your guild master, we (for we, I mean people who have an unusual play-schedule) are indeed a "market" who can bring the game some money. Let us a place to be in the system, it will benefit the game in the long run as long as everyone can play the game the way he think it's best.

Edited by Nyamo
grammar and typos

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