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Say No to Shadowbane Style Mines


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2 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

Ad hominems are always so productive.  I guess the discussion is over.

I think it lost the plot around here.

31 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

I've always been confused by this type of thing.  Like don't 9 to 5ers have enough?  Can't they go to happy hours and evening events and play golf or hang out at the country club and whatever.  If MMOs aren't for people with weird schedules and night shifters and 4 on 3 offers and truck drivers and disabled and such, what are?

This group identity crap (the groups being divided by work hours and perceived privilege) is petty and pointless.

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Getting back on track, I can't stress enough that hitting rocks for hours isn't how I want to spend my game time, and that seems to be necessary for supplying crafters with what they need to keep ever

Ok, I stopped reading this thread around page 8 (and didn't read each post meticulously), so forgive me for addressing the elephant in the room if it's already been addressed...   Nyamo, do

First, I like the idea. But, the key to PvP health is variety, in my opinion. This should be in, SB style mines should be in, 24-hour active mines that cannot be captured should be in, hot spots

Just now, mandalore said:

I think that the fact that removed it from JTC's other game (while he was still there I think) says a lot about it. 

Yes, BUT that was also the whole game. When people didnt like the mechanic they had no other options. CF will have some other options at least. This should stop the game from doing a complete nosedive if things turn bad. So even if its not a popular play style, if it is popular enough then ACE has no reason to drop it completely 

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Just now, ShadowwBoi13 said:

Yes, BUT that was also the whole game. When people didnt like the mechanic they had no other options. CF will have some other options at least. This should stop the game from doing a complete nosedive if things turn bad. So even if its not a popular play style, if it is popular enough then ACE has no reason to drop it completely 

O sure, if 5k people want it then let them suffer through it like I have.  I don't see 5k people, I see a handful of people that don't want to play on a server that maximizes their time to play and instead would rather the rest of the population be punished to suit their minority perspective.   

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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4 minutes ago, ShadowwBoi13 said:

Based on nothing. Im giving you advice for keeping the type of playstyle you want afloat. Unlike others who seem to be bashing this style completely. If you want 24/7 vulnerability to be a thing you need to find way more people like you. Cause as it seems from the forums and many past game flops, there are not that many. Prove everyone else wrong and bring your droves of friends that wish for that play style and keep a campaign active enough for ACE to be willing to keep running that campaign style.

If there actually are enough people that think like you and Nyamo, then this will be a non issue for you and everyone bad mouthing that style of play will be put in their place. If there arent enough of you then your out of luck and should try growing your community untill it becomes enough. The simple fact of the matter is, right now there isnt a single person who can say this style will succeed OR fail, not even by comparing it to other games that have failed to do it properly. The only thing that decides if that style of play will be a thing is ACE deciding its worth the cost to run those types of CWs, which as of right now, no one (not even the devs probably) could say if the play style is worth it. It cant be known untill its seen. So when the time comes put your money where your mouth is and hope enough people like you are also willing to do the same.

I just saw Nyamo's post in my unread comment was the first I heard this type of thing was even being considered, so foreign it is to me.  I remember setting my alarm for 3 or 4am just to wake up for 18 hour spawn timers.  I remember recruiting guild members in other play times for the specific purpose of making sure the guild could defend off hours attacks.  I remember getting a comp day for working a weekend and the thrill of logging in and still having reliable people in my guild online to party up with--rather than sitting around all day being unable to do anything meaningful.  Might as well stop calling it a persistent online world.  Just call it weeknights football club.

Honestly they can do whatever they want.  I'm clearly not going to get my friends together that have the same playtime as me, because if I had friends with the same free time as me, I'd go do things with them, not play an online game.  Unlike many, it sounds like, I play online games because I have nothing better to do.  I would much rather go play face to face board games with friends.  Or just have drinks and catch up on life.  But that's not my life, unfortunately.

I'll be fine though.  I've only in for $150 and probably got that entertainment value out of a week of Beta.  I don't feel entitled to anything.  They can make the game they want to make.  But if there is a thread arguing about whether they should implement said ruleset or not and that directly effects whether or not I can even play the game, then it makes sense for me to weigh in with my opinion.  That's what I did.  For what it's worth.  Cheers.

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2 minutes ago, mandalore said:

O sure, if 5k people want it then let them suffer through it like I have.  I don't see 5k people, I see a handful of people that don't want to play on a server that maximizes their time to play and instead would rather the rest of the population be punished to suit their minority perspective.   

I cant speak for how many people there may or may not be that want that playstyle. I sure as heck dont wanna deal with that trash again after losing days worth of sleep over and over again on similar games.

But if 10 people want a campaign ruleset with no healers, no healing disciplines, and all classes that have skills that would grant health/healing have those skills disabled. If those 10 people are willing to buy enough VIP to keep a server running, then why shouldnt ACE drop a CW with that weird arse ruleset? If they are making more then the cost of the server (and what ever other costs may go into it) then why not give those 10 people what they want? It doesnt take away from the multiple other thousand people that dont wanna play that ruleset, cause those other people can still play their normal rulesets.

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Just now, ShadowwBoi13 said:

I cant speak for how many people there may or may not be that want that playstyle. I sure as heck dont wanna deal with that trash again after losing days worth of sleep over and over again on similar games.

But if 10 people want a campaign ruleset with no healers, no healing disciplines, and all classes that have skills that would grant health/healing have those skills disabled. If those 10 people are willing to buy enough VIP to keep a server running, then why shouldnt ACE drop a CW with that weird arse ruleset? If they are making more then the cost of the server (and what ever other costs may go into it) then why not give those 10 people what they want? It doesnt take away from the multiple other thousand people that dont wanna play that ruleset, cause those other people can still play their normal rulesets.

You need standards instead of constantly doing what the mob wants just because they through enough money at it.  At what point is your future credibility with the gaming community worth a quick profit now?  Gaming communities are fickle beasts and trusting consumers to tell you what they want is risky business practices. 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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10 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

This group identity crap (the groups being divided by work hours and perceived privilege) is petty and pointless.

It's not a perceived privilege.  If you work the same schedule as most people, then you have the same free time as most people, which means you can engage socially with a greater percentage of people.

It is hard to find someone to grab a drink with you at 10 am.  It is hard to get together with your kids friends' parents and build those bonds when they are only free weekend evenings.  You end up with a lot of free time at odd times and very few available social outlets.

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1 minute ago, Arcadi said:

It's not a perceived privilege.  If you work the same schedule as most people, then you have the same free time as most people, which means you can engage socially with a greater percentage of people.

It is hard to find someone to grab a drink with you at 10 am.  It is hard to get together with your kids friends' parents and build those bonds when they are only free weekend evenings.  You end up with a lot of free time at odd times and very few available social outlets.

Are you blaming him for having a normal life?  What are you even saying?  You do get that the majority of the work force doesn't work at midnight right?

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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10 minutes ago, mandalore said:

You need standards instead of constantly doing what the mob wants just because they through enough money at it.  At what point is your future credibility with the gaming community worth a quick profit now?  Gaming communities are fickle beasts and trusting consumers to tell you what they want is risky business practices. 

There is one business model that would support both. You or your guild pay to open and maintain a world, and you get to twiddle whatever dials ACE has exposed.  

If a player group configures a crap world, it would not reflect on ACE more than that they let them try what they wanted. 

The risk would be fragmenting the player base. But if someone builds a terrible config, then odds of them pulling many players are pretty low.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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I want PvP hotspots, and some type of resource spawn event would be a great motivation and focus for PvP activity. I like the idea of a 2 hour caravan event that happens several times per day, or a POI that has a bulk resource spawn every 1-2 hours, or even a node spawn event that could be triggered by pvp somehow.

I don't like a 24 hr timer for several reasons: it sucks for players that cannot be on at that specific time, it encourages zerging that will lead to performance issues and things like zone caps (see Albion Online),  it encourages players to login just for the timer then logoff (sorta like playing an arena or bg :P).

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2 minutes ago, miraluna said:

I want PvP hotspots, and some type of resource spawn event would be a great motivation and focus for PvP activity. I like the idea of a 2 hour caravan event that happens several times per day, or a POI that has a bulk resource spawn every 1-2 hours, or even a node spawn event that could be triggered by pvp somehow.

I don't like a 24 hr timer for several reasons: it sucks for players that cannot be on at that specific time, it encourages zerging that will lead to performance issues and things like zone caps (see Albion Online),  it encourages players to login just for the timer then logoff (sorta like playing an arena or bg :P).

It would be fun if graveyards became hotspots if there was PvP nearby.

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16 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

It's not a perceived privilege.  If you work the same schedule as most people, then you have the same free time as most people, which means you can engage socially with a greater percentage of people.

It is hard to find someone to grab a drink with you at 10 am.  It is hard to get together with your kids friends' parents and build those bonds when they are only free weekend evenings.  You end up with a lot of free time at odd times and very few available social outlets.

They need to have pvp activities you can do at whatever time you log in. However, if they allow offline raiding players will be angry when they lose 100+ hours of work without having the ability to defend their investment. To counter the twenty-four hour raid window players create zergs which are the anthesis of good MMO pvp. A dynamic schedule system solves your major issue while still allowing a guaranteed defense for structures.

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4 minutes ago, miraluna said:

I want PvP hotspots, and some type of resource spawn event would be a great motivation and focus for PvP activity. I like the idea of a 2 hour caravan event that happens several times per day, or a POI that has a bulk resource spawn every 1-2 hours, or even a node spawn event that could be triggered by pvp somehow.

I don't like a 24 hr timer for several reasons: it sucks for players that cannot be on at that specific time, it encourages zerging that will lead to performance issues and things like zone caps (see Albion Online),  it encourages players to login just for the timer then logoff (sorta like playing an arena or bg :P).

I would like to see the POI's work a bit more on the node spawn sort of model.

Go to a mine, feed in something (hunger shards maybe), pull a lever, or do something so it's told to turn on, and then the respawn rate for the nodes in the area goes way, way up, for an hour.

Along with that, a toast message fires saying "XYZ mine has been turned on by order".  

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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2 minutes ago, Zatch said:

They need to have pvp activities you can do at whatever time you log in. However, if they allow offline raiding players will be angry when they lose 100+ hours of work without having the ability to defend their investment. To counter the twenty-four hour raid window players create zergs which are the anthesis of good MMO pvp. A dynamic schedule system solves your major issue while still allowing a guaranteed defense for structures.

Sure, instead of a 24 hour rotation on the window, have the window rotate every 20 hours, so it hits all time periods equally.  I've always liked systems like that.

Edited by Arcadi
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1 minute ago, Arcadi said:

Sure, instead of a 24 hour rotation on the window, have the window rotate every 20 hours, so it hits all time periods equally.  I've always liked systems like that.

I don't think that's what he meant...

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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4 minutes ago, Zatch said:

They need to have pvp activities you can do at whatever time you log in. However, if they allow offline raiding players will be angry when they lose 100+ hours of work without having the ability to defend their investment. To counter the twenty-four hour raid window players create zergs which are the anthesis of good MMO pvp. A dynamic schedule system solves your major issue while still allowing a guaranteed defense for structures.

By the way, I'm not claiming you personally are guilty of this, but it is interesting logic that people want sieges to only be viable during a certain time period because they are afraid of being "zerged" while they are offline, and then simultaneously claim that no one plays during those periods anyway.  How can you be zerged by no one?  hehe.

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15 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

Sure, instead of a 24 hour rotation on the window, have the window rotate every 20 hours, so it hits all time periods equally.  I've always liked systems like that.

One Idea I had would be a bit more ownership controlled, with a built in guild limiting factor.

  • There are 13 gods, so give them each a "day" and make a 13 day "week".
  • Each "day" is 1:45-2:15 hours in length.  
  • When your guild captures a location (fort/keep), they have to pick a "day" to be vulnerable on.
  • Every new fort/keep must pick a different day to be vulnerable on.
  • All guild controlled POI's become vulnerable at the same time ANY keep/fort they own is vulnerable.

This would mean large guilds as they grow, would naturally become more vulnerable to attack, AND the vulnerability windows would rotate around the clock.  Small guilds that could only control one or two locations, would have to move regularly to keep on a schedule they prefered. 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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11 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

By the way, I'm not claiming you personally are guilty of this, but it is interesting logic that people want sieges to only be viable during a certain time period because they are afraid of being "zerged" while they are offline, and then simultaneously claim that no one plays during those periods anyway.  How can you be zerged by no one?  hehe.

When you are offline it doesn't take very many people to "zerg" your defenseless assets.

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2 minutes ago, Jah said:

When you are offline it doesn't take very many people to "zerg" your defenseless assets.

Nor, then, would it take must effort to stop them.  Might encourage guilds to have a couple players in weird time schedules here and there.  Have the bonus of promoting a little diversity.  Was my favorite part of AO, we had players all over the world, playing the strangest schedules.  Met so many great people.

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Just now, Arcadi said:

Nor, then, would it take must effort to stop them.  Might encourage guilds to have a couple players in weird time schedules here and there.  Have the bonus of promoting a little diversity.  Was my favorite part of AO, we had players all over the world, playing the strangest schedules.  Met so many great people.

You will get guilds of 20+ members who pvp raid an area at certain times which forces any guild that wants to compete at all to have members in all time zones. This will lead to Euros, Russians, and Chinese to play on USA servers to suffer a poorly made socks ping. When that campaign ends the Americans will have to suffer a poorly made socks ping as the the guild is forced to rotate what server they play to give everyone an eventual good campaign experience. 99% of the playerbase does not want to be forced into having a terrible ping in order to achieve a modicum of success. This will be as detrimental to Crowfall as a significant performance issue.

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