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Sulfurblade

My New Player experience

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Sorry if this sounds negative!

But I will be sharing my thoughts about the game and the main things I will likely remember are things that I didn't like, about the game!

The first thing I discovered that really has me very disappointed is that this is an Eve Like Skill system!!!

> I dislike this time based skill system for so many reasons!!!

A) It allows Casual Players to be able to keep up with players that put serious hours into the game!  Some people think this is good, I disagree, wholeheartedly!

B)The guy who cuts down the most tree's should be the best Logger, the guy who makes the most swords should be the best swordsmith, etc.  In this system there is no real reward for actually doing your profession.   A guy who rarely crafts anything can technically be just as good a crafter as the guy who only crafts!  Why because he unlocked those skills.

While I doubt you all will scrape this horrible skill system you should really look at a way to actually reward or increase skill ticks for people who actually do the stuff there researching....IE if your researching the Exploration line then every time you cut a tree give another 1 extra point towards that skill line, etc... IE make it a Hybrid combine the skill over time with skill rewards for actually doing the job!!!

 

Okay next topic - 

Lack of Player Vendors inside of the campaign, this could likely be, because your just not at that stage of development yet but I find this Vendors inside of the EK's to be backwards!!!

Player Vendors should be inside the Campaign itself.....

 

Death -

I discovered today that you don't drop your equipment on death?!?  Sure this may make it easier for carebear's to go forth and pvp but isn't this a pvp focused game?!?  I am not sure why you would protect peoples gear as that would only prolong campaigns as part of war is to take away the enemy's ability to fight.....

 

These are the first things I have noticed that had me either really spun up (Skill System) or mildly annoyed, the rest....

 

I am sharing my experience as maybe others have similar thoughts and the more voices to the chorus, etc etc...  without feedback you can't tweek things....

 

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@Mummelpuffin

The game isn't done and a lot of things will change, but some implementations let me think that some older devs from ACE want to do the game they couldn´t do when they were young. But things have changed. What´s been cool ten years ago, might not entertain the audience in 2018+.

Edited by Shnoo

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1 hour ago, Brevalear said:

Can you tell me approximately how much time you spent reading upon/researching this game before you purchased it?

I have watched literally 40-80 hours of Blair Hallash and Todd doing various Youtube video's and the skill system seems to have not ever been a topic of those videos....  Its because of the video's that I have watched that I decided to spend the money.  But this is irrelevant anyway, no matter how much research the consumer does it doesn't change the fact the skill system is not good.  I bought Eve knowing that skill system existed so I am sure I would have got this game, regardless..... However that doesn't change the fact that the skill system is no good in my opinion!  At least I will be one of the benefactors of its poor design when the game is released because I will be there before everyone else that joins the game, because I will have been there from day 1.....

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3 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

A) It allows Casual Players to be able to keep up with players that put serious hours into the game! 

....

B)The guy who cuts down the most tree's should be the best Logger

Passive training is jut one small aspect of the game. The guy who cuts down the most trees will be the best logger, because he will produce the most wood. That is the point of logging. People who sink a lot of time into their profession will be much more effective at that profession than someone who just passively trains. There are plenty of rewards for grinding for hours in Crowfall, don't be fooled by the one system that is entirely passive.

Player Vendors should be inside the Campaign itself.....

Yep, and I am fairly confident that will be added.

I discovered today that you don't drop your equipment on death?!?  Sure this may make it easier for carebear's to go forth and pvp but isn't this a pvp focused game?!? 

There will be different rulesets for different campaigns. There will likely be equipment looting in some of them. We are only seeing one unfinished ruleset in pre-alpha testing right now.

And some pvpers would argue that being forced to farm even more gear would make the game less pvp focused, not more...


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5 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

isn't this a pvp focused game?!? 

3 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

I have watched literally 40-80 hours of Blair Hallash and Todd doing various Youtube video's

 

You watched 40+ hours of CF YouTube and not once did you pick up that this game will be a game for crafters, harvesters, explorers, social people and pvp (or any combination)?  PVP is a huge facet of the game but it’s not by any means the only part of the game and they want a game loop that’s just as important for crafters and harvesters as it is for straight up murderers.  

Are you sure you watched the videos? 

 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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5 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

While I doubt you all will scrape this horrible skill system you should really look at a way to actually reward or increase skill ticks for people who actually do the stuff there researching....IE if your researching the Exploration line then every time you cut a tree give another 1 extra point towards that skill line, etc... IE make it a Hybrid combine the skill over time with skill rewards for actually doing the job!!!

 

 

The tacet insinuation whenever somebody takes this stance is that people who can grind the game 12+ hours a day are intrinsically more skillful (as a player) than somebody they perceive to be a casual who maybe only plays 4 hours a day, and this should be enforced extrinsically through character progression. As if after having chopped 10,001 trees you should have gained some new experience since the 10,000 tree you felled. 

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3 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

I have watched literally 40-80 hours of Blair Hallash and Todd doing various Youtube video's and the skill system seems to have not ever been a topic of those videos....  Its because of the video's that I have watched that I decided to spend the money.  But this is irrelevant anyway, no matter how much research the consumer does it doesn't change the fact the skill system is not good.  I bought Eve knowing that skill system existed so I am sure I would have got this game, regardless..... However that doesn't change the fact that the skill system is no good in my opinion!  At least I will be one of the benefactors of its poor design when the game is released because I will be there before everyone else that joins the game, because I will have been there from day 1.....

 

The amount of research the consumer did prior to purchasing is completely relevant because your first complaint is about the skill system which has been a fundamental part of the game design since the kickstarter. If you bought a car without test driving it only to find out the engine doesn't start whose fault would that be?

Regardless you are entitled to your opinions. You may find this system 'not good' and others might think its 'great'. The fact that it is a key component to the design means that it will not be going away. I'm glad to know that a similar system didn't stop you from playing a game before and hopefully it won't stop you from playing Crowfall.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mandalore said:

You watched 40+ hours of CF YouTube and not once did you pick up that this game will be a game for crafters, harvesters, explorers, social people and pvp (or any combination)?  PVP is a huge facet of the game but it’s not by any means the only part of the game and they want a game loop that’s just as important for crafters and harvesters as it is for straight up murderers.  

Are you sure you watched the videos? 

 

Not sure how your insinuating that I didn't pick these things up?!?  I am a player who has always preferred crafting inside of a PvP environment, it makes business much better!  When did I say PvP was the only Facet, your the person that said that!!!

 

Regardless, this is my new player experience not yours, I have as much right to express my viewpoints and how my first few hours went in the game as you do.  Infact there is no need for most of the follow on discussion that has taken place.  Glad you like the game glad you feel the need to defend it, but I AM NOT ATTACKING IT....  I am doing my job as a tester and sharing my thoughts with the development team...  

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What I hope is that they have a solid design vision well before they start taking feedback.  I want a game made by a small pool of game designers; not one designed by the random masses of the internet.  A consistent vision is important to avoid becoming a generic mess of contradictions and systems with no synergy with each other.

I do worry when they make changes that seem to be more over-arching "design"-type decisions than bug fixes, that they are listening too much to the community, or worse, still haven't settled on their vision.  Certainly the website FAQ is quite vague in places (compared to unnamed other game's published design docs).  But I hope these are false alarms.  They have good pedigree and many fans, so I just want to see the game they want to make.

Edited by Arcadi

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20 minutes ago, Sulfurblade said:

Not sure how your insinuating that I didn't pick these things up?!?  I am a player who has always preferred crafting inside of a PvP environment, it makes business much better!  When did I say PvP was the only Facet, your the person that said that!!!

 

Regardless, this is my new player experience not yours, I have as much right to express my viewpoints and how my first few hours went in the game as you do.  Infact there is no need for most of the follow on discussion that has taken place.  Glad you like the game glad you feel the need to defend it, but I AM NOT ATTACKING IT....  I am doing my job as a tester and sharing my thoughts with the development team...  

You seem to think this is just a pvp game though.  If you divide this game up it’s more 40% pvp / 40% harvesting / 20% crafting.  I’m sorry that upsets you bromego.  

Why the caps?  Are you yelling?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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24 minutes ago, Sulfurblade said:

Not sure how your insinuating that I didn't pick these things up?!?  I am a player who has always preferred crafting inside of a PvP environment, it makes business much better!  When did I say PvP was the only Facet, your the person that said that!!!

 

Regardless, this is my new player experience not yours, I have as much right to express my viewpoints and how my first few hours went in the game as you do.  Infact there is no need for most of the follow on discussion that has taken place.  Glad you like the game glad you feel the need to defend it, but I AM NOT ATTACKING IT....  I am doing my job as a tester and sharing my thoughts with the development team...  

You are correct to fell and express your thoughts about this game. I am a bit confused about what you think or believe what a tester is supposed to do at this stage of development. 

There are and will be fundamental concepts of this game that is the developers vision. 

Passive learning has been and will be a cornerstone principle of this game. 

The game is in pre-alpha state. Just because the game is playable and looks good doesn’t change the fact it’s pre-alpha. This means that as testers we are looking for gliches in the game world like falling thru the world, getting stuck in the environment or animations, tears in the environment or ways to “cheese” PvP or pve kills. 

 There are several aspects of this game yet to be  implemented. Examples day/night cycle. Seasons spring/summer/fall/winter. Mounts. Farming. Skill tress finished. Harvesting of plants. Cooking skills. This is just the tip of the iceberg. 

 Second unless you are a paid employee don’t say your job. 

 

Jababbo

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9 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

A) It allows Casual Players to be able to keep up with players that put serious hours into the game!  Some people think this is good, I disagree, wholeheartedly!

 

 

You are really going to hate the catch up mechanic than. I think you are weighing the value of the passive skill tree to heavily in some areas, it certainly helps but it is not the all powerful mechanic it is in other MMO's. Training, Armor & Weapons, Vessels, & Discs, are all designed to be small incremental increases in power on there own, with smart group play and skill being the ultimate deciding factors. The most active players in the game will have a distinct advantage over new players, in terms of quality for weapons, armor, vessels, skill and knowledge about the game. Armor, Weapons and Vessels all take a large resource investment which can only be obtained while actively playing the game. This makes for a balanced play style that is not to heavily influenced by one aspect or another of the game, this allows the game to reach a wider audience by not gating new people from the game behind a "Win More" mechanic. I hope your research into Crowfall has at least showed you that more players especially in this game is always a good thing.

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:26 AM, Sulfurblade said:

A) It allows Casual Players to be able to keep up with players that put serious hours into the game!  Some people think this is good, I disagree, wholeheartedly!

I remember when I didn't have a serious job, a family and actual responsibilities...


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:26 AM, Sulfurblade said:

A) It allows Casual Players to be able to keep up with players that put serious hours into the game!  Some people think this is good, I disagree, wholeheartedly!

B)The guy who cuts down the most tree's should be the best Logger, the guy who makes the most swords should be the best swordsmith, etc.  In this system there is no real reward for actually doing your profession.   A guy who rarely crafts anything can technically be just as good a crafter as the guy who only crafts!  Why because he unlocked those skills.

 

The obvious counterargument to this is that this is a video game, not a lifestyle (even though some say/act otherwise).  There are many players who want to be able to enjoy a game without making it a second career. 

Also, as has been already pointed out, there is a lot of player skill, both tactically and strategically, in this game.  You can have maxed out skill trees and be wiped off the map if you are tactically and strategically inferior to your opponents.  Honestly, I think the reason they even have the passive skill system is to give a sense of progression/achievement that persists beyond the lives of the campaign worlds.  It appeals to the players that were put-off by the idea of the "world resets" being built into the game.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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1 hour ago, mourne said:

It appeals to the players that were put-off by the idea of the "world resets" being built into the game.

That and the changing worlds are the best parts of Crowfall. But each campaign should have a shorter starting phase and start with equal chances for everyone. I don't want to be unbeatable just because I started on day one. For beginners it´s not cool to wait a week until they can craft something useful. And it´s certainly not cool that they will never be able to catch up.

We had this in the first expansion of WoW where content was heavily gated. New players couldn´t catch up and old guilds couldn´t fill their ranks. Some guilds carried their new players, but many just broke apart. I don´t want to turn Crowfall into the carebear game WoW became, but there need to be some catch up mechanics. A new players must be able to reach the level of veterans if he tries hard enough. Have a look at Black Desert Online to see how it´s done right.

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12 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

That and the changing worlds are the best parts of Crowfall. But each campaign should have a shorter starting phase and start with equal chances for everyone. I don't want to be unbeatable just because I started on day one. For beginners it´s not cool to wait a week until they can craft something useful. And it´s certainly not cool that they will never be able to catch up.

We had this in the first expansion of WoW where content was heavily gated. New players couldn´t catch up and old guilds couldn´t fill their ranks. Some guilds carried their new players, but many just broke apart. I don´t want to turn Crowfall into the carebear game WoW became, but there need to be some catch up mechanics. A new players must be able to reach the level of veterans if he tries hard enough. Have a look at Black Desert Online to see how it´s done right.

Im confused. Last time I checked everything you can craft in crowfall is useful. 

 Example. A starter wood axe can chop down any tree. Sure a rune ace is nicer but not required to harvest. 

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3 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

That and the changing worlds are the best parts of Crowfall. But each campaign should have a shorter starting phase and start with equal chances for everyone. I don't want to be unbeatable just because I started on day one. For beginners it´s not cool to wait a week until they can craft something useful. And it´s certainly not cool that they will never be able to catch up.

We had this in the first expansion of WoW where content was heavily gated. New players couldn´t catch up and old guilds couldn´t fill their ranks. Some guilds carried their new players, but many just broke apart. I don´t want to turn Crowfall into the carebear game WoW became, but there need to be some catch up mechanics. A new players must be able to reach the level of veterans if he tries hard enough. Have a look at Black Desert Online to see how it´s done right.

EVE has a similar system to Crowfall and gained population year over year despite players being behind. The only thing Crowfall needs is to make some form of progression for new players. Intermediates are supposed to do it, but in their current incarnation they are pretty meh. 

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