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My New Player experience


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56 minutes ago, hectavex said:

It sounds like a great idea and I can definitely get behind that, but it all depends on the execution and if that means sacrificing experience bars for a lackluster skill progression, well then I'd rather be eating rat stew.

We're tip-toeing the line between an MMO with slower progression + persistent world, and a MOBA with quicker progression + temporary world. I don't doubt that a game somewhere in-between those genres would be awesome, but Crowfall is taking a stab in the dark being one of the first studios to try it out on this level (not to mention the hybrid RTS factor too), so I think it's vital to be constructive in this phase about any aspect which may feel boring or unintuitive. It's very easy for an established studio to regurgitate ideas/genres from the game industry and see gains, but doing something entirely new with a new studio is difficult and it comes with the risk that what they're making is not a proven formula, so they have next to no idea how it will be perceived by the mass gaming community unless more people are offering their feedback.

Good to hear the arrow crafting thing is temporary...or supplemental...or whatever. Hopefully!

I agree, the constant shifting from one mechanic to the next on whether they want to be a MMO or a MOBA makes me very worried how they will synergize.  Since it's not all in, we can only speculate or wait, and both are frustrating pursuits.  The sooner they implement all the systems they have planned (even if somewhat buggy), the sooner we can see whether they synergize or not, and what emerges.  I hope the forum advocates are correct, and there is a clear vision, to which there is no point on commenting on until we have it in our hands.  But I worry that picking and choosing from different game genres might have unforseen consequences when those systems interact--and certainly won't automatically "meld" without designer intentionality.

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3 hours ago, hectavex said:

Three years might sound like a lot, but exposure and acceptance by a large player base (beta) is what really matters for the long term success and this hasn't been done yet. You are a tester which means you are a small slice, a mere handful, of players who are going to have opinions and spread the word about this game. Are you certain all these potential customers are going to welcome an Eve-like skill system in a heavy character build / reroll oriented "somewhat successor to SB" type of game? I'm not so certain myself. I don't really have to speak for anyone else, since they will keep leaving their comments here in this forum. And if it's enough of an issue, ACE will fine tune it to suit everyone better. That's how development on a large project like this becomes successful.

I may be late to the party but I'm a member of this party whether you like it or not :)

I want choices to matter and a time invested system is preferred to me and I guess the devs too.   I doubt they are going to scrap their entire concept for training and reverse course entirely to something else.  You have fun hoping though and feel free to hold your breath.  The irony in all of this is your position makes me, Mandalore, white knight for the dev team.  I’m stealing @Jah’s mojo with every defense of the dev team. 

You being a member is fine by me, just another victim to savagely assault in the game and another board warrior fulminating with poignant rancor.  

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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25 minutes ago, mandalore said:

I want choices to matter and a time invested system is preferred to me and I guess the devs too.

Your chumbait's in the wrong string, bromego!

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5 hours ago, Shnoo said:

Let´s talk again when I kill your newbie friends semi-afk. Why should one have to be far better to compensate an unfair advantage?

It´s unfair to start a campaign with BIS equip from the last campaign and it´s unfair to start it with 100000000000000 skillpoints spent. And for what? It´s absolutely not necessary and deosn´t help to be proud of that gifted victory. Look how Diablo 3 does its seasons. That´s the way to do campaigns. BTW, that rune and skill system isn´t that bad either. Offers great variety with just some clicks. Not 100000000 clicks for a "carved in stone"-build.

Fair? There is no such thing as fair in games. There are rules and systems but that’s it. 

Fair is an adjective and has different meanings to different people. There is no place for that word in crowfall. 

 Crowfall is a place about  decisions. Each choice you make will mold and make your character  unique. You choose what race you want to be and you choose the class you want to play. You choose what CW to play in. What faction and so on. 

This game is designed with the intent of lasting years. I get it you don’t like the eve like passive skill learning. I hate to tell you this but it’s not going to change. 

 I know you want to say it’s not fair for a player 2 years down the road to be that far behind. There is a bit of truth to that statement however a new player item or buff can increase their skill gain to help the cause. But you are sadly mistaken if you think all players should have the same skill point total. 

Second players will have several CW’s to choose from. You can join an CW with no imports and everyone is starting out with no equipment. A CW rule could be no magic users. As a player you decide if you like the rule set or not before you join the CW. 

You have stated earlier that this is pre-alpha and we can make changes in this game. This is not a true. There are certain things that the developers won’t change about this game. Passive skill training, CWs and EKs, eating food, interactive pvp “no tab target” these things are the core of crowfall and will exist no matter how many people complain about it. 

Jababbo

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9 hours ago, Hammur said:

This game is designed for people to play purely to enjoy playing the game. You do not have to kill 1,000 mobs to get from level 1 to 5 and then kill 3,000 different mobs to get from level 5 to 10. Play the game enjoy the environment and wait. I know waiting is something millennials are unaccustomed to. The passive skill system is a core piece of the game. Its an unrealistic expectation to think they will consider changing that at this point in development. Your certainly free to comment on anything you like or don’t like. Its much more constructive to discuss bugs or things that are not working as intended and there are still many of them. I am quite certain you will find the passive skill training to be a take it or leave it issue. That is way past the point of no return.

First off your attempt at an insult isn't even accurate.  I am either part of Generation Jones or Generation X,  (1968) so try again!

Secondly This is Pre Alpha mate, there is nothing written in stone.  Both Star Citizen and DayZ went back and completely changed there Engine, which is a tad of a bigger change the altering the skill system.  And again I never said remove it, I believe there is room to enhance it meld the time system you love with a your actually doing the thing buff....  So you can keep your I don't even have to play skill system and others can play hard and try hard to get actually get ahead.....OR Catch up!!!!

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8 hours ago, Sulfurblade said:

First off your attempt at an insult isn't even accurate.  I am either part of Generation Jones or Generation X,  (1968) so try again!

Secondly This is Pre Alpha mate, there is nothing written in stone.  Both Star Citizen and DayZ went back and completely changed there Engine, which is a tad of a bigger change the altering the skill system.  And again I never said remove it, I believe there is room to enhance it meld the time system you love with a your actually doing the thing buff....  So you can keep your I don't even have to play skill system and others can play hard and try hard to get actually get ahead.....OR Catch up!!!!

So you’re proposal is they push the game back more to completely redo core systems of the game and how those systems interact so that you, the minority voice, can have what you want? 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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1 hour ago, mandalore said:

So you’re proposal is they push the game back more to completely redo core systems of the game and how those systems interact so that you, the minority voice, can have what you want? 

"Push the game back more" is not a thing.  There is no release date.  There is no public time-line.  This is a huge game with a passionate development team and fan-base. It's going to take time and input from the community to be fully realized. I don't think anybody is asking to "completely redo core systems of the game" here.  There are a number of ways the concerns of the testers can be addressed while maintaining the integrity of the "core system."

Thank you, mandalore, for supporting this game.  Thank you for being an active member in the community. Thank you for being the voice of the majority.

 

P.S. The last sentiment of gratitude was facetious.

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On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:44 AM, mcdub said:

"Push the game back more" is not a thing.  There is no release date.  There is no public time-line.  This is a huge game with a passionate development team and fan-base. It's going to take time and input from the community to be fully realized. I don't think anybody is asking to "completely redo core systems of the game" here.  There are a number of ways the concerns of the testers can be addressed while maintaining the integrity of the "core system."

Thank you, mandalore, for supporting this game.  Thank you for being an active member in the community. Thank you for being the voice of the majority.

 

P.S. The last sentiment of gratitude was facetious.

Sorry to have to tell you this but the game has a release schedule which was soft launch near the end of this year but has been pushed back already to Q1 2019.   We may not meet that date but those of us that have been actively testing and giving input for the last 2+ years know a thing or two more about where we are and where we are going than someone with 2 whole posts and no actual experience.   Mandalore is correct, you are wrong.   The massive delay and setbacks from the 5.3 race-class split may not have even been on your radar but it is in our collective memory as a plus and a minus...   the minus being a 8 month delay.   We will not be changing core systems like that again, trust me.

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Reported for logic

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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3 hours ago, Frykka said:

a release schedule which was soft launch near the end of this year but has been pushed back already to Q1 2019.   We may not meet that date but those of us

That sounds a bit like "when it's done".

They're also building an MMO platform to license out at the same time as this...

No doubt, the passive skill tree is lackluster and linear so I bet they will change it somehow.

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1 hour ago, hectavex said:

That sounds a bit like "when it's done".

They're also building an MMO platform to license out at the same time as this...

No doubt, the passive skill tree is lackluster and linear so I bet they will change it somehow.

not really...   the budget numbers I see as an investor only include so much overrun into next year with the boosted staffing and outsourced art and leaving a budget for the ad push after soft launch.   There is no room for extensive delay of soft launch.

The MMO engine license is a separate daughter company and is not taking resources from CF development at all... has one executive employee atm.   

Yes, tweeking will happen and we saw the first radial skill tree as a trial last patch...   but nothing major will change beyond rearranging and making it a little more compelling in decision making,   It will still be blah mostly and about tiny increments of creep plus unlocks for crafting/harvesting/leadership.   

There will be post launch development of course but Alpha then Beta likely this fall will tell us a lot about hype and the full game loop we should expect at soft launch.   5.8 and 5.9 will include most of the tech (less FW :huh:) we need to have sandbox play.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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With all of the in-game customization I don’t see why these people are whinging.  It’s meant to be a slow grind.  It’s not meant to be the defining chunk of your characters power but another facet of it.  We don’t even know what the final class trees look like and they are still whinging.  

 

40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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13 hours ago, mandalore said:

With all of the in-game customization I don’t see why these people are whinging.  It’s meant to be a slow grind.  It’s not meant to be the defining chunk of your characters power but another facet of it.  We don’t even know what the final class trees look like and they are still whinging.  

 

When you can simply ask guild for everything you need to "build" and "customize" a character, you're just throwing on a role like a coat in the closet. This is why I'm not entirely privy to having all of the customization based around items and farming them.

Pure item based character progression is unintuitive and lazy. Slowly cranking up a dial on some numbers to generate a new tier of "skill" and a new tier of "content" is not my idea of fun. WoW did that and it was lame. Even Diablo had more creative ideas than just slapping CON/INT/DEX on some gear and bumping the numbers up every time they want "progression".

What I propose is they should have an achievement system and talent tree that resets each campaign:

  • capture a fort = gain 2 talent points (repeat)
  • destroy a tree = gain 4 talent points (repeat)
  • harvest 10 mother loads = gain 2 talent points (one time)
  • defeat 5 players from an enemy faction = gain 3 talent points (one time)
  • defeat 10 players from an enemy faction = gain 5 talent points (one time)
  • defeat 50 mobs = gain 3 talent points (one time)
  • maintain a 3:1 kill/death ratio during one whole season = gain 5 talent points (repeat per season)

Then you could have a tree to select talents from, sacrificing choices along the way to customize your build. This would add an extra layer of counter-balance which players could theorycraft and design crazy builds with.

You could think of it as an extended MOBA mechanic where instead of gaining skills quickly by getting experience, you gain them more slowly by accomplishing set goals. The talents would reset each campaign much like a MOBA does each battleground.

What this does is incentivize players to go participate in pvp more while making themselves vulnerable to other players also trying to obtain said achievements. It breaks the hard line between harvesters, crafters and pvpers. That rock-paper-scissors mechanic will get boring and something like this could fix it by mixing up the stew and creating set goals for players, guilds and entire factions.

That way you get to keep the passive skill training as a separate account-wide perk system, but you also get the benefit of training for specialization and making sacrifices to maximize certain other abilities on a per-campaign basis.

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8 hours ago, hectavex said:

Pure item based character progression is unintuitive and lazy. Slowly cranking up a dial on some numbers to generate a new tier of "skill" and a new tier of "content" is not my idea of fun. WoW did that and it was lame. Even Diablo had more creative ideas than just slapping CON/INT/DEX on some gear and bumping the numbers up every time they want "progression".

Item based progression is not the same thing as continuous item power creep. What WoW did is not the plan for Crowfall.

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