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Mummelpuffin

What sort of combat would you be satisfied with?

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I am generally unfamiliar with MMOs.  A very common complaint being thrown around is that combat in Crowfall, after all the tweaking that's been done, is still extremely lackluster.  So what sort of combat do you actually want?

Are you primarily bothered by the como system?  Ok, reasonable enough, I also hope abilities stop getting railroaded like that, it feels weird.  Otherwise, though?  What do you want?  Do you just want more stuff?  Please don't forget that Crowfall isn't exactly a big game, and it has way more to focus on than just combat.  I know WoW, for instance, had an aburd number of abilities to pick from at launch, but... it's WoW.  It's, like, the biggest game ever made.  Darkfall combat, from what I've seen, is similarly mostly circle strafing the enemy and pressing M1.  Guild Wars has all it's rolls n' stuff but the result is that most attacks are just outright avoided which drags combat on for longer than it needs to.  So again, what do you want?  What, in your opinion, is an MMO that got PvP combat right, and additionally didn't take so much time to achieve that it strangled the rest of the game?


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Combat argument's usually boil down too age and gaming experience.

While most of what I am about to say may seem to be stereo-typing I believe it has credible foundation Or I wouldn't waist time typing it....

Younger gamer's put more value on combat mechanics.  And what they see as good combat generally has a lot of Particle Effects and button smashing possibly in particular order's to create combo's or other such combat mechanic's.....

As an Older gamer I strongly dislike ^^^^ Button smashing, Particle Effect combat filled with pointless animations to make the combat actions look really cool.

As I fundamentally disagree with the concept that Combat is the most important aspect of an MMORPG.

 

One of the best combat systems I have ever experienced in a game was Magery in Ultima Online before T2a.  This was OMG Tab targeting.....  But what it really was, was a system so simple but yet so elegant, Fast casting to disrupt spells, casting certain spells to deplete a specif reagent of your enemy, there were many tactic's in mage duels.  And skill at the keyboard shined thru in the outcome.  Sure back then seeing a flame-strike was pretty cool but lets be honest that animation meant little compared to your enemy's red bar shrinking!

 

Ultimately combat is simply a system that allows the rest of the game to succeed.  I would rather see Development time being put into Content to make the game fun that trying to make the greatest combat system ever as, I don't find combat to really be that important....  Things that interact with combat, like stealth in Shadowbane, the ability to steal from people that are fighting etc those are the things that make a game great.  The combat is just a system that has to be.  The only thing about combat I would say is key is the ability for a fight to prolong...  Combat should never be over instantly unless of course you were just hit bye 15 Centaurs who randomly ran onto your screen all casting a devastating spell at the same time screaming "Carebear Stare!"  In which case you got zerged bye 15 players of course the only recourse you have is to die....

 

 

Edited by Sulfurblade

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Currently we are a little CC heavy, ray casting and hitbox needs some adjustment for range and lag has made reacting to audio/visual queues difficult...   but the combo system works well and once you know the counters and strengths it is fun and engaging if seemingly easier than battleground FPS combat.    We really need to see how it works when performance is not an issue in 30v30 to 50v50 fights...    


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The way combat is right now is completely setup for zergs. Its going to come down to strictly a numbers game there is very little skill gap right now. Insane amount of CC,  Football Field size AOEs, 1 button heals that dont need to be aimed u just click Number "5" and you heal your whole group. Hitboxes are monstrous you cant miss a spell. All the spells are ray casts. No physics. Still a ton of animation locks. None of the classes have any kind of synergy to them whatsoever. For a game thats suppose to be a PVP game the combat is just not there.


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19 minutes ago, wor said:

The way combat is right now is completely setup for zergs. Its going to come down to strictly a numbers game there is very little skill gap right now. Insane amount of CC,  Football Field size AOEs, 1 button heals that dont need to be aimed u just click Number "5" and you heal your whole group. Hitboxes are monstrous you cant miss a spell. All the spells are ray casts. No physics. Still a ton of animation locks. None of the classes have any kind of synergy to them whatsoever. For a game thats suppose to be a PVP game the combat is just not there.

It honestly sounds like you haven't played in pre-alpha. At best these are half-truths.


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8 minutes ago, Jah said:

It honestly sounds like you haven't played in pre-alpha. At best these are half-truths.

Coming from one of  the biggest zergs in the game of course you would defend the combat.  You know I played lol. Can watch 1 video and see the combat hasnt changed since I was playing. Just added more lackluster abilities. 

Edited by wor

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10 minutes ago, wor said:

Coming from one of  the biggest zergs in the game of course you would defend the combat.  You know I played lol. Can watch 1 video and see the combat hasnt changed since I was playing. Just added more lackluster abilities. 

I didn't defend the combat, I observed that what you said about it is not really accurate.

I'll agree the game is too sensitive to numbers. An outnumbered group can win, but in general whoever has bigger numbers will likely win. And CC is excessive.

AOE's aren't as large as you suggest, hitboxes aren't as bad as you suggest, aiming on healing does matter for most heals, there is some physics on some powers, and there are definitely some synergies between classes.

I just don't really appreciate exaggeration as rhetorical device.


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35 minutes ago, Jah said:

I didn't defend the combat, I observed that what you said about it is not really accurate.

I'll agree the game is too sensitive to numbers. An outnumbered group can win, but in general whoever has bigger numbers will likely win. And CC is excessive.

AOE's aren't as large as you suggest, hitboxes aren't as bad as you suggest, aiming on healing does matter for most heals, there is some physics on some powers, and there are definitely some synergies between classes.

I just don't really appreciate exaggeration as rhetorical device.

Obviously saying football size AOEs is an exaggeration, Im sorry you took that literally. Hitboxes are definitely huge and you pretty much cant miss a spell thats been the same since the beginning idk how anyone can deny that. This is why combat will stay bad you guys white knight any criticism on the game and act like everything is perfect. Look at any of the more popular videos on youtube and you will see hundreds of people complaining about the combat. 

 

Edited by wor

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1 minute ago, wor said:

Obviously saying football size AOEs is an exaggeration, Im sorry you took that literally. Hitboxes are definitely huge and you pretty much cant miss a spell thats been the same since the beginning idk how anyone can deny that. This is why combat will stay bad you guys white knight any criticism on the game and act like everything is perfect.

Nothing is perfect about the combat. You are tripping. Accurate criticism would be more effective.


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4 minutes ago, Jah said:

Don't say falsehoods if you don't want to be corrected.

Nothing was false i posted an opinion. One you obviously cant handle. I know you donated probably thousands of dollars on the game and its like talking down to your baby but get past the bias guy. Combat needs tons of work the OP asked for opinions i gave mine. Believe it or not i want the game to be good and strive. With how the combat is now it wont make it more than a month maybe 2.

Edited by wor

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1 hour ago, wor said:

i posted an opinion. One you obviously cant handle.

I'm not the one ranting about white knights and post counts as soon as someone disagrees with me.


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Combat is terrible. The top thread is and has been is the game fundamentally boring and it has 20 pages. I can assure you most of those pages are not filled with "No" answers to the question is the game fundamentally boring.

This game does boil down to combat. Even ACE said it themselves. Remember the huge delays where they revamped the combat system. And the continued delay cause combat still sucks. To say combat isn't the most important concept in this game is to say "I don't understand what Crowfall set out to do".

This game needs to play like a competitive shooter. It needs to draw on inspiration from games like Overwatch and Darkfall. Somewhere in betwen those two games is the combat this game deserves. Find it or watch the game die like it currently is.

This forum is a ghost town. Don't bother responding to me because I won't return to check it.

Jah shut your stupid mouth. You never offer anything to a discussion, you just tell people they are wrong for not sharing your ability to lie about the current state of Crowfall.

Edited by ClockworkOrange
I forgot to tell Jah to shut up.

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I'd like to see combat be a little more tactical and require more coordination. Not in the snails pace sense, but in actually having to coordinate certain abilities with your allies. GW2 kinda did this with the combo fields. Personally I'd like to see something similar to divinity original sins where you can "set up" stuff for your team. I'd like to see aoe CC require more stuff like that. Set down a field and ignite it to burn, slow, stun, etc, whatever. Something like the duelist barrel except you can detonate it with your ranged attack and cause it to explode, knock down people, etc.

I have no delusions as to combat getting faster or more mechanically skill based, but I think the above would be way more interesting. Combat right now just needs more layers;  there really isn't anything to it.

In terms of abilities in general, everything just kinda feels the "same" and sterile. I'd personally like a little more uniqueness. The discipline system is an opportunity to get really crazy, but I feel like it's way too tame. Some of this might be due to the time constraints available when it comes to animations, sfx, and just general ability design.

Edited by Helix

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I too am pretty worried about the combat. That said I live in New Zealand so my ping to the American servers is... substandard (and this game really doesn't deal with ping well).

But to me it seems overly mobile. All the dodges are massive making it trivial to relocate. As such many tactics are simply sidestepped.

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Ya the younger generation loves their action combat which is primarily based on reflexes and aim. I definitely prefer the old school combat when it comes to immersive MMO's that hinder much heavier on strategy and community. The current action combat system more or less has 1 main optimal ability rotation(boring), with the occasional counter ability. The old tab based systems let auto-attack do the mundane work of optimal rotation and focused on strategic and timely abilities to defeat your opponents, we also had multiple hotkey bars and crap loads of awesome abilities, something not easily doable with aim based action combat.

I'm okay and in fact like action combat using tab targetting because it still allows for multiple hotkey bars due to the fact it free's up your mouse to hit all those abilities you can't efficiently hotkey. Aim targeting is pretty damn weak though, if I want to test my aim I'd rather play a FPS.

It's kind of weird saying that because when I was their age we also had some pretty awesome FPS games which I definitely loved playing.

Edited by koregen

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Aim targeting adds to the skill curve of a game that is supposed to have competitive PvP, tab targeting basically removes an entire variable and honestly doesn't belong in a game that you want some sort of combat that can be won based on skill and not endless CC chains.

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On 10/6/2018 at 9:00 PM, Maniox said:

Aim targeting adds to the skill curve of a game that is supposed to have competitive PvP, tab targeting basically removes an entire variable and honestly doesn't belong in a game that you want some sort of combat that can be won based on skill and not endless CC chains.

This should get more attention. There is so much truth to this short statement.

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