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Passive Skill Tree is Very Alarming!


Xhavier
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46 minutes ago, Jah said:

Agreed. And character customization is largely done when you choose Race, Class, Major Disciplines, Weapon Discipline, Minor Disciplines, Weapons, Armor, and other gear.

I wonder why anyone who objects to passive training would want to put more of the game's character customization into the passive training system, rather than having it in the systems I listed above.

 

What I suspect is a bunch of no-life scrubs prefer a system where their in-game ability (level power scaling) is mostly dictated by their ability to grind out killing of low-complexity AI mobs. Passive skill training is completely at odds with the preferences of no-life scrublords, the kind of people who twink for WoW battlegrounds so they can temporarily have enough power advantage so they can feel what it is like to win.

The PvE grinding requirement for Albion Online and Black Desert Online, to be competitive in PvP, is so custard tired. Why should I have to kill 500,000 mobs so I can be better at killing a player. 

I love how in EVE Online there is no requirement to do hogwash in order to unlock things or advance. I have enough hogwash work in my life,  I don't need it in my games too. /rant

 

Edited by DocHollidaze
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I will have to admit I haven’t looked at the combat tree system till now. If the race, combat and class system was laid out more like the crafting trees would that make it better? Wanting to understand others points of view before I make a suggestion. 

Jababbo

 

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24 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

What I suspect is a bunch of no-life scrubs prefer a system where their in-game ability (level power scaling) is mostly dictated by their ability to grind out killing of low-complexity AI mobs. Passive skill training is completely at odds with the preferences of no-life scrublords, the kind of people who twink for WoW battlegrounds so they can temporarily have enough power advantage so they can feel what it is like to win.

The PvE grinding requirement for Albion Online and Black Desert Online, to be competitive in PvP, is so custard tired. Why should I have to kill 500,000 mobs so I can be better at killing a player. 

I love how in EVE Online there is no requirement to do hogwash in order to unlock things or advance. I have enough hogwash work in my life,  I don't need it in my games too. /rant

 

Hey, I'm a no-life scrub who hates PVE too.  Almost as much as quests.  It's a toss up.

On the other hand, you obviously want some progression/persistence in your game, or you'd be playing Counterstrike or Battlefield or League of Legends or Overwatch and not insulting people who already have pretty terrible lives on MMO forums for a game that's not even out yet.

I don't really think this thread is about what you are trying to make it about.  Which is funny because there actually is a current thread about the topic you want to discuss (insult).  Where some presumably retired person is complaining about how passive skill gains advantage casuals: 

 

 

This person is complaining about the way its implemented...

Anyway, you can rant wherever you want.  Just in case you were actually trying to make an effort to understand the communication taking place on these forums, I thought I'd offer some assistance.  As a no-life scrub, I literally have nothing better to do than to try to help :)  Which has actually been my experience in past MMOs, the no-lifers seem to be the most selfless.  /cheers!

 

Edited by Arcadi
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2 minutes ago, Arcadi said:

 

I don't really think this thread is about what you are trying to make it about.  Which is funny because there actually is a current thread about the topic you want to discuss (insult).  Where some presumably retired person is complaining about how passive skill gains advantage casuals: 

 

 

I was replying to Jah, specifically. 

Either way, I think I've already been in that thread you mentioned, and insulted that guy too. I can't remember though. Too many scrubs to put down and I don't have even mental bandwidth to keep track of them all.

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6 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

 

I was replying to Jah, specifically. 

Either way, I think I've already been in that thread you mentioned, and insulted that guy too. I can't remember though. Too many scrubs to put down and I don't have even mental bandwidth to keep track of them all.

I didn't know it was a private conversation between you and Jah.  There is a feature called private message; you may want to look into that.  Since your reply was posted publicly and you decided to insult a bunch of people that I have had positive experiences with, I felt a need to defend them.  Surely you understand :) 

Edited by Arcadi
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You're right. The passive skill system is incredibly linear and just plain boring!!!

It feels like you don't even get to build a character, you just choose one and then "level it up" by spending points you earn over time (often while not even playing) on mostly the same kind of "spec" that everyone else will also be choosing. In the end, this feels more like a participation system that gets you to log in every so often and click some doohickeys / watch some numbers go up so that you feel like you're making progress in some weird roundabout way. But it is a far cry from character building like what we had in Shadowbane.

There was a discussion about it here:

 

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2 minutes ago, hectavex said:

It feels like you don't even get to build a character, you just choose one and then "level it up" by spending points you earn over time (often while not even playing) on mostly the same kind of "spec" that everyone else will also be choosing. In the end, this feels more like a participation system that gets you to log in every so often and click some doohickeys / watch some numbers go up so that you feel like you're making progress in some weird roundabout way. But it is a far cry from character building like what we had in Shadowbane.

This is a common complaint, but it ignores the character building mechanisms that do exist in Crowfall.

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On 5.8.2018 at 2:56 AM, Xhavier said:

Required 75% skill tree completion makes any specialization pointless as once you finally completed the tree at 75% your tree will be nearly identical to any other character playing the same race/class as you.

True. And...

In most trees I´d have all I want at approx 25 %, but I´m forced to skill so much trash to get to the next good skill. 

It´s bad to have good skills and fillers scattered around the place. Why do we have to skill the same thing in three different trees several times? 

We need four points to get to the next skill, but five for the last skill in a tree. Some classes/races have cool skills worth the five points in the second to last column. Some have crap there. So my suggestion: Roll the position and tree shape for all skills completely random for each char. ^^

I also dislike the crafting and harvesting skills in the racial tree, but perhaps it´s cool to pick a race as a compromise (racial, class, crafting-/harvesting-bonuses) for others. Don´t know, people are different.

Time is change, but time is a narrowing road of no return in Crowfall. 

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1 hour ago, DocHollidaze said:

The PvE grinding requirement for Albion Online and Black Desert Online, to be competitive in PvP, is so custard tired. Why should I have to kill 500,000 mobs so I can be better at killing a player.

Level doesn´t mean that much in Black Desert Online. Gear is more important and you can get it however you prefer to play the game. Crafting, trading, grinding, fishing, hunting sea monsters, let your workers do it - it´s up to you. But do nothing and you´ll get what you deserve: nothing*.

* Not true. Even if you don´t do anything the game will support you not to fall behind. 

Work and you will be rewarded. Enlist first shouldn´t benefit you for all times.

 

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20 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

 

True. And...

In most trees I´d have all I want at approx 25 %, but I´m forced to skill so much trash to get to the next good skill. 

It´s bad to have good skills and fillers scattered around the place. Why do we have to skill the same thing in three different trees several times? 

We need four points to get to the next skill, but five for the last skill in a tree. Some classes/races have cool skills worth the five points in the second to last column. Some have crap there. So my suggestion: Roll the position and tree shape for all skills completely random for each char. ^^

I also dislike the crafting and harvesting skills in the racial tree, but perhaps it´s cool to pick a race as a compromise (racial, class, crafting-/harvesting-bonuses) for others. Don´t know, people are different.

Time is change, but time is a narrowing road of no return in Crowfall. 

Yes this is what i mean its frustrating for a lot of players see their charcters progress this way my point being its not a meanigful mechanic and doesn't really add to the game. Although this isnt a game killer I wouldn't mind to see some big changes to it to make my charcter progression seem meaningful when im offline. I dont mind the racial craft bonuses, that may in the end ultimatly help create a diverse economy. 

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13 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

Gear is more important and you can get it however you prefer to play the game.

That is what I like about Crowfall, and why I am not keen on putting more of character customization in the passive training system. I'd rather it came from Disciplines and Gear, because you can acquire those through many different methods.

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1 hour ago, Jah said:

This is a common complaint, but it ignores the character building mechanisms that do exist in Crowfall.

It does and it doesn't the passive tree should be a further way to add to your charcter development not a "time based buff" that adds to the template you pick. 

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Just now, Xhavier said:

It does and it doesn't the passive tree should be a further way to add to your charcter development not a "time based buff" that adds to the template you pick. 

Why do you want additional character development to be time based? Why not have it based on active things, like runes and gear that have to be acquired actively?

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27 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

Level doesn´t mean that much in Black Desert Online. Gear is more important and you can get it however you prefer to play the game.

 

The same for Crowfall in terms of passive training.

 

And yet, in one of these games, it requires countless hours of mindless bullsht grinding in order to maintain parity.

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3 minutes ago, Jah said:

Why do you want additional character development to be time based? Why not have it based on active things, like runes and gear that have to be acquired actively?

Well because the mechanic is there, what is the point of a passive tree if it doesn't add anything to character progression. That basically eliminates any reason to have a tree in the first place. Which I imply in my argument. 

My main argument is this: the current systen offers a linear time based buff with no choice or reason. The paths are to linear and the restrictions are to high. You basically follow one straight line to the things you enjoy most in the game in which grants you a time based buff depending on the time your account was created with your ability to login and manage this straight line to the buff that you'd enjoy most. It's boring and feels meaningless because there is no choice, no point in having a tree. 

Because of these reasons id rather see the tree further developed to something more useful and meaningful or removed or replaced with something more sophisticated because currently it takes away from the game.

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1 minute ago, Xhavier said:

Well because the mechanic is there, what is the point of a passive tree if it doesn't add anything to character progression. That basically eliminates any reason to have a tree in the first place. Which I imply in my argument. 

My main argument is this: the current systen offers a linear time based buff with no choice or reason. The paths are to linear and the restrictions are to high. You basically follow one straight line to the things you enjoy most in the game in which grants you a time based buff depending on the time your account was created with your ability to login and manage this straight line to the buff that you'd enjoy most. It's boring and feels meaningless because there is no choice, no point in having a tree. 

Because of these reasons id rather see the tree further developed to something more useful and meaningful or removed or replaced with something more sophisticated because currently it takes away from the game.

You see what I am trying to say though? If you are someone who doesn't like the "time based buff depending on the time your account was created" then why would you want more feautures added to that system?

Wouldn't you prefer that any additional character customization options that are added to the game get added to a different mechanism than the passive training system? Like, say Class, Race, Discipline, and Gear choices?

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29 minutes ago, Jah said:

That is what I like about Crowfall, and why I am not keen on putting more of character customization in the passive training system. I'd rather it came from Disciplines and Gear, because you can acquire those through many different methods.

Yes, disciplines are nice, but I hope they change that system slightly. Disciplines should be complex recipes from poor to legendary quality and once learned it should be possible to switch them without destruction.

It´s a neccesary waste of time to craft a discipline right now and I wouldn´t switch if crafting a discipline needed more time or resources.

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29 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

And yet, in one of these games, it requires countless hours of mindless bullsht grinding in order to maintain parity

I´m sorry to hear that it was "bullsht grinding" for you. For me it was fun and the start of lots of 1 vs 1, x vs x or guild vs guild PvP encounters. Black Desert did almost everything right until they simplified the class mechanics over months in the live environment. ACE should have a look at that game, but I guess it´s not possible to compete with BDO´s budget.

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28 minutes ago, Shnoo said:

Yes, disciplines are nice, but I hope they change that system slightly. Disciplines should be complex recipes from poor to legendary quality and once learned it should be possible to switch them without destruction.

It´s a neccesary waste of time to craft a discipline right now and I wouldn´t switch if crafting a discipline needed more time or resources.

Disciplines do have different quality levels that change the stat advtange you get from them. Crafting discs is a central component of Crowfall gameplay. If you can switch disciplines without desturction it destroys an entire gameloop. 

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