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Hammur

Worst thing that can happen to a game?

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What the worst thing that can happen to game? I think when the community no longer cares. Test has been down for the last 48 hours with no communication from ACE. Live has been unplayable since 5.7 was put on test. It seems no one cares about either. The lack of comments about this is alarming. I know there is a lot of effort going into 5.7 but the game is not the only thing being tested. Can the development team support the current game while creating new content? I believe this is also in testing and has been failed since 5.7 was put on test. If you want to keep your player base something playable must be available to those that paid for the game. Gamers will move on if given a good reason. 

ACE has been excellent at communicating with the community until recently. I hope they learn from this push on 5.7 and don't take the current base for granted in the future. 

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As soon as they tell us about about a planned wipe, activity on LIVE screeches to a halt. It happens every time. The fix for that would be to not wipe, or not tell us when they plan to wipe.

People care, but they know that 5.7 is imminent and there isn't a whole lot to be gained from showing how much we care by fretting over it on the forums.


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People expecting too much from a TEST, and going all chicken little is probably up the list in the top 20 though.

Stalls and starts during this phase of test development as early as this, is not by any stretch of the imagination the "worst" thing that can happen.

ACE selling out to EA, that would be about the worst. :rolleyes:

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20 minutes ago, McTan said:

In my opinion, this is a drastic overreaction. The worst thing that can happen to a game is attempting to please everyone at the expense of following through on a vision.

I agree 100%.  Crowdfunding is fine, but let's not crowdsource (crowd-design).  Have a clear vision and stick with it.

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As for the initial question:

The worst thing that could happen to (any) game is that nobody plays it.

The second worst thing that could happen is that it won't be played by a critical mass, big enough to pay the maintenance costs + costs for ongoing development. Which inevitably happens to any game after it is seriously outdated.

 

Though in general there are very true points in your arguments, there is one major flaw in them. 

18 hours ago, Hammur said:

something playable must be available to those that paid for the game.

This is not a game yet. This is a playtest environment. The final game will be delivered with its launch. And this (and only this) is the moment when something playable MUST be available for those who paid for the game.

  • Those who bought a backer bundle (2017 and earlier) spent money to back up the development of the game. This goal (funding the development) has been reached late 2017. They will get rewarded with ingame perks once the game launches. If it doesnt launch, their bad. They (we) backed development, there are no guarantees.
  • Those who bought a pre-sale package (since 2018), bought the game prior to launch. And additionally got testing access for free (in fact, the test access has always been calculated with 0 bucks - it is for free). They have the right to get a game ... once it is developed.

A lot of people don't seem to understand the implications of those points. Though they are vital. Currently we are in testing. In testing of specific parts of the later game (called Pre-Alpha). Not the full game. Not the full game loop. It is not like in most other games, where testing usually starts with a (more or less) full game-loop and then only quests, depths and optimizations get added. That's just not the case.

I absolutely understand when (especially new) crows are confused. Even old crows can get confused from time to time. That's OK. ACE just don't do a lot of things a way most gamers are used to. But thats not a con, that's a pro. Born out of the extraordiniary experience and passion of this team - it's the often unsong fundament that enables Crowfall to become something very special.

But the currnent stage is only good for coldblood testers. Within limits also for those who like to learn some of the already available basic game mechanics or who like to find friends and foes before the game launches. And that's it.

You are a crow that has been forum-born in 5.6. It's normal to be taken aback by what happens when a new build gets uploaded. But it's nothing special at all. It's not even a major milestone. It's nothing more but usual. And the team explained their reasons why they do this or that regarding wipes and new builds over and over again. They really did enough. Really.

 

So my advise is: Sit back and relax. There is nothing extraordinary happening. It's just a next update. One of a lot to come. Of course, give feedback. Absolutely. That's important. But don't expect too many people to be "alarmed".

The priority of the team has to be to deliver (=finish) the final game. This will lead to inconviniences for the testers during the development stages. The team does anything they can afford to make it more convinient for the testers. But they can't spend too much time and money (though they spend some ... an really enough) on things that won't be of use for development.

The true testers (and those who are willing to develop this state of mind) will/do get over it and continue helping the game to become the best game possible by providing important feedback (like yours). Determined, but calm, consistent and constructive. You did your first half step.

So, congratulations and welcome to the club. ;)


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On 7.8.2018 at 11:27 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

People expecting too much from a TEST, and going all chicken little is probably up the list in the top 20 though.

Stalls and starts during this phase of test development as early as this, is not by any stretch of the imagination the "worst" thing that can happen.

ACE selling out to EA, that would be about the worst. :rolleyes:

No offense, but u sound like you have no clue about the game industry as a whole. EA will release Battlefield V in October 12th in 2018 and a finished game and already pre ordered.

Bethesda and Todd Howard will release The Elder scrolls Blades for free on all platforms including custard iphones 1st September in like 2 weeks! And it cost nothing - and Doom Eternal is out end of the year + The elder scrolls single player RPG game in development TES VI. 

The main issue with open development like Crowfall - it`s too tedious to wait for new content, because most really like to enjoy the game, but it`s difficult when the game is in pre alpha stage for too long!  

 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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1 hour ago, mythx said:

No offense, but u sound like you have no clue about the game industry as a whole. EA will release Battlefield V in October 12th in 2018 and a finished game and already pre ordered.

Bethesda and Todd Howard will release The Elder scrolls Blades for free on all platforms including custard iphones 1st September in like 2 weeks! And it cost nothing - and Doom Eternal is out end of the year + The elder scrolls single player RPG game in development TES VI. 

The main issue with open development like Crowfall - it`s too tedious to wait for new content, because most really like to enjoy the game, but it`s difficult when the game is in pre al

You trying to do some astro turf advertising for them or something? 

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On 8/8/2018 at 12:12 PM, Kraahk said:

This is not a game yet. This is a playtest environment. The final game will be delivered with its launch. And this (and only this) is the moment when something playable MUST be available for those who paid for the game.

I appreciate your comments, but I must take issue with a few things.

I am very happy to see the server population +100 every day since 5.7 was released. I know quite a few people I have played with in the past have moved on to other games and did not come back with the release of 5.7. That’s just the small circle I play with. Player retention is something that must be considered if this is going to be a successful game.

The game is in testing phase, but we have two separate environments, live and test. I believe at this point in development we should expect live to be playable 24X7. Test is where testing should occur and expected instability. Why would you have two separate environments if this were not the case?

When playing test, we should expect numerous bugs and things not working as intended. We should report those and help development move forward. If the test phase is done correctly there won’t be many issues the development team is unaware of. That is not to say as in the case of 5.7 it won’t be pushed to live with known issues.

The biggest misconception I think most people have is that they are testers. We are more accurately described as a test market group. Ace intends to slowly release this game in waves. The do listen and respond to our input about the game. We are not that far from a full roll out of the game. With that in mind I believe my original comments are valid and hope ACE will do a better job with future releases.

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28 minutes ago, Hammur said:

I appreciate your comments, but I must take issue with a few things.

I am very happy to see the server population +100 every day since 5.7 was released. I know quite a few people I have played with in the past have moved on to other games and did not come back with the release of 5.7. That’s just the small circle I play with. Player retention is something that must be considered if this is going to be a successful game.

The game is in testing phase, but we have two separate environments, live and test. I believe at this point in development we should expect live to be playable 24X7. Test is where testing should occur and expected instability. Why would you have two separate environments if this were not the case?

When playing test, we should expect numerous bugs and things not working as intended. We should report those and help development move forward. If the test phase is done correctly there won’t be many issues the development team is unaware of. That is not to say as in the case of 5.7 it won’t be pushed to live with known issues.

The biggest misconception I think most people have is that they are testers. We are more accurately described as a test market group. Ace intends to slowly release this game in waves. The do listen and respond to our input about the game. We are not that far from a full roll out of the game. With that in mind I believe my original comments are valid and hope ACE will do a better job with future releases.

 

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No, the biggest misconception that is causing people angst, is that they not testers, when they are.  Consumer testers yes, but testers none the less. 

For people to expect any server to act like production live is expecting too much.  Does ACE try to run it like production, yes.  Should we expect them to actually run it like production, no.

This stage of development and testing is not for everyone, it's for those of us that can tolerate a very bumpy road.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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The availability of the TEST environment is always going to be more spotty; LIVE is the only environment intended to be 24/7. We are very careful about not only announcing snap tests on TEST in social media and the forums, but I often will send out an email to the active test groups as well. There's not really any point in announcing that TEST isn't open. 

At some point in the future, we'll have a section on the website that shows server status at a glance. We're not quite to a place where that would be useful yet, though. 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Yes Todd Howard pays me to advertise his games which this game really need marketing, and this game need that before it hit open beta to stress test their servers, because otherwise we will see another Shadowbane launch, and it was not a gr8 experience back in 2003!  

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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16 hours ago, Hammur said:

The game is in testing phase, but we have two separate environments, live and test. I believe at this point in development we should expect live to be playable 24X7. Test is where testing should occur and expected instability. Why would you have two separate environments if this were not the case?

 

Well, it's still amaze me how new Crows seems so uninformed when Ace is so informative about their game.

So i'll just point you to the news explaining the difference between Live and Test since you seems to have missed it.


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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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8 hours ago, Gorwald said:

Well, it's still amaze me how new Crows seems so uninformed when Ace is so informative about their game.

So i'll just point you to the news explaining the difference between Live and Test since you seems to have missed it.

The post addressed the fact that live had been ignored and was in an unplayable state while the push to release 5.7 was made. As you so elegantly pointed out live is supposed to be up and playable 24-7 and was not. In the future you might want to read the original post prior to making comments. Without one of the two servers in a playable state, preferably live as it is intended players will move on. As ACE moves toward release player retention should become a priority. This is quickly becoming a reality. They can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

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Player Retention? This isn't a game yet. Its a glorified gathering and crafting simulator with wack-a-mole for distractions.

Player Retention, the phrase, would seem to indicate this is a released game worried about its subscription numbers. Considering this game isn't a.) consuming subscriptions, or b.) selling subscriptions right now... that phrase is inappropriate. 

In simpler terms;  /yawn

Edited by Scree

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On 8/7/2018 at 5:27 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

ACE selling out to EA, that would be about the worst. :rolleyes:

^ Nailed it.

 


Eat or be eaten

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No no, worst that could ever happen is dogget being a hologram and not real.  


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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13 hours ago, Hammur said:

The post addressed the fact that live had been ignored and was in an unplayable state while the push to release 5.7 was made. As you so elegantly pointed out live is supposed to be up and playable 24-7 and was not. In the future you might want to read the original post prior to making comments. Without one of the two servers in a playable state, preferably live as it is intended players will move on. As ACE moves toward release player retention should become a priority. This is quickly becoming a reality. They can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

If you can't understand why they let 5.6 in such state to push 5.7 forward, instead of losing time/ressources ($) on maintaining 5.6 in a better state, then sorry, i can't do anything for you.

The original post is a rant about the state of 5.6 and why the devs have focused on 5.7 instead of correcting 5.6.

Dude, seriously, learn how development works.

Todd will say "if the juice is not worth the squeeze" and it's a good analogy to understand why they don't have put efforts in an obsolete version when 5.7 was just around the corner.


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Thelanas Kar'Pal Membre fondateur de l'alliance Naerth en 2001 - Ex Shadowbane European Advisor Damnation/Carnage/Vindication/Corruption http://www.twitch.tv/gorwald/profile

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