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Hasil

Over-Training -- Is This How It Will Be in Live?

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Hopefully the way training skills works will be changed before release.  Currently, you can over-train a skill, resulting in wasted points.  This is really a bummer if, say, you take a vacation or don't hang around to micro-manage your skill training.  At a minimum, when you reach enough points to take you to 100% trained in a skill, those extra points should be able to be rolled over to another skill.

Edited by Hasil

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11 minutes ago, Hasil said:

Hopefully the way training skills works will be changed before release.  Currently, you can over-train a skill, resulting in wasted points.  This is really a bummer if, say, you take a vacation or don't hang around to micro-manage your skill training.  At a minimum, when you reach enough points to take you to 100% trained in a skill, those extra points should be able to be rolled over to another skill.

You will be able to convert skill points (overages) into Skill Tomes to sell that others can use in that tree only.

 


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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3 minutes ago, Frykka said:

You will be able to convert skill points (overages) into Skill Tomes to sell that others can use in that tree only.

 

Why not just allow a user to re-allocate those points?  I don't understand why you are expected to micro-manage that carefully, it's just annoying and it doesn't account for real life being a thing :)

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Just now, Hasil said:

Why not just allow a user to re-allocate those points?  I don't understand why you are expected to micro-manage that carefully, it's just annoying and it doesn't account for real life being a thing :)

Because "easy mode" is not allowed in a competitive PvP game...   you make a mistake or forget and you still have a way to use them for profit.  Log in every 3 days is not hard or every 30 for VIP (this could change but has not shown to be an issue as the passive training is not huge...)    Just stay involved and play the game and this won't even be an issue.   Leave for a week? then don't pick a skill tree that is near completion, be smart, don't be lazy and winge about it.


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34 minutes ago, Hasil said:

This is really a bummer if, say, you take a vacation or don't hang around to micro-manage your skill training.

We currently have 10X training speeds on LIVE for testing purposes. With normal training speeds it will be much less of a hassle to keep up with training and make sure you don't over-train a tree.


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46 minutes ago, Frykka said:

Because "easy mode" is not allowed in a competitive PvP game...   you make a mistake or forget and you still have a way to use them for profit.  Log in every 3 days is not hard or every 30 for VIP (this could change but has not shown to be an issue as the passive training is not huge...)    Just stay involved and play the game and this won't even be an issue.   Leave for a week? then don't pick a skill tree that is near completion, be smart, don't be lazy and winge about it.

How is it EZ mode to allow you to spend your points without wasting them? Lol. . .

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The system is still under construction. And yes, the current system is bad.

It doesn't matter if we are running at x1 or x10, if you wanna complete (100%) a tree without "wasting" points into future tomes you need to be making a minute schedule to grab that remaining pip before you over produce points.

 

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2 hours ago, Hasil said:

How is it EZ mode to allow you to spend your points without wasting them? Lol. . .

Because there is restrictions on use, no double dipping, no two branches of same Tree...   lots of ways where those points cannot be applied anywhere but in the branch they were gained.    It's EZ mode to just be lame, not pay any attention to your build...    have you never had to be accountable?

 

Edited by Frykka

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I hope they change it as well. Who cares if you double dip in using points that you've earned. Those are different than just buying a time. I don't want to be forced to give away part of my time just because I didn't want to wake up at 230 in the morning to make a skill change.

They need a queue system where when one skill tree maxes out points, you can have a backup that would start accumulating points. 


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On 8/9/2018 at 12:58 AM, Nervontuxis said:

The system is still under construction. And yes, the current system is bad.

It doesn't matter if we are running at x1 or x10, if you wanna complete (100%) a tree without "wasting" points into future tomes you need to be making a minute schedule to grab that remaining pip before you over produce points.

 

Or.... switch off it, and then switch onto it when your playing.  Those last nodes are quite time heavy.  

The issue is, how does ACE decide what your next, completely open to choice, selection is going to be?  How do you tell them, and how long will it take them to build a system that works to handle that automatically?

If you put it all into a general, spend anywhere bank, then players will be able to double dip, easily. Or ACE will have to spend even more time trying to figure out how to block double dipping in this manner.

Much easier to give you the ability to tome it, and trust the tome management logic for the rest, so that diminishing returns covers the double dipping issue.

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On 8/9/2018 at 1:58 AM, Nervontuxis said:

The system is still under construction. And yes, the current system is bad.

It doesn't matter if we are running at x1 or x10, if you wanna complete (100%) a tree without "wasting" points into future tomes you need to be making a minute schedule to grab that remaining pip before you over produce points.

 

You are worried about wasting dozens of points? 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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9 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Or.... switch off it, and then switch onto it when your playing.  Those last nodes are quite time heavy.  

The issue is, how does ACE decide what your next, completely open to choice, selection is going to be?  How do you tell them, and how long will it take them to build a system that works to handle that automatically?

If you put it all into a general, spend anywhere bank, then players will be able to double dip, easily. Or ACE will have to spend even more time trying to figure out how to block double dipping in this manner.

Much easier to give you the ability to tome it, and trust the tome management logic for the rest, so that diminishing returns covers the double dipping issue.

Doesn't really matter that you can turn it off while playing. You still need a minute schedule to grab the last pip, now you just gotta set an alarm while you are playing.

Sure it's not a big issue if you lose some points, but think about how much frustration this will cause in a competitive game. Just make the system that lets just que pips in trees. That way I can just que the remaining pip to reach 100% and i'll just que pips from the next tree I want.

Simple as that. Now you have avoided all double dibs and aren't forced to tome just because you wanna max out a tree / are unwilling to make a minute schedule.

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On 8/9/2018 at 3:18 PM, Frykka said:

Because "easy mode" is not allowed in a competitive PvP game...  

Pfffttt hahahahaha. Frykka, your a blast as always. A minor quality of life change = easy mode. Difficulty is inherent to the complex pvp combat, not the obtuse menu systems, they're just tedious, not difficult.

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1 hour ago, Kastor said:

Pfffttt hahahahaha. Frykka, your a blast as always. A minor quality of life change = easy mode. Difficulty is inherent to the complex pvp combat, not the obtuse menu systems, they're just tedious, not difficult.

Not even quality of life...   if you cannot manage to log in every 30 days (VIP which everyone testing has) then wtf...  and no you cannot swap training in crafting to combat to get a boost ahead...   that isn't quality of life, that is just being lazy...   it is like not knowing when you are going to finish a node that unlocks a new tree and then gripe that you lost time in that new tree...   same laziness.

And yes, occasionally I do get up in the wee hours when I know a new tree is unlocked to switch, and I have to pick the next tree because sometimes there is a choice involved.   You can always wait until morning and the extra points you gained in the old tree are not wasted because new trees are not unlocked by the final node in any case.

 

 

Edited by Frykka

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i posted about this.. 

if we can move 75% of the first group into the next tier. the 3rd tier is 50% then 25% for the final tier.  The 2nd tier would be 50% into the 3rd tier, etc.

and by the percents I mean, if you had 100 points over, you could place 75 into tier 2 or 50 in tier 3 or 25 into tier 4. IE the cost for training increases each tier you progress into.

I'm downloading the 5.7 patch so i'll get an image up sunday some time if it's needed.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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3 hours ago, Kastor said:

Pfffttt hahahahaha. Frykka, your a blast as always. A minor quality of life change = easy mode. Difficulty is inherent to the complex pvp combat, not the obtuse menu systems, they're just tedious, not difficult.

It’s not QoL, you’re just being lazy and advocating for a change to suit you. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 8/9/2018 at 3:07 AM, Frykka said:

Because there is restrictions on use, no double dipping, no two branches of same Tree...   lots of ways where those points cannot be applied anywhere but in the branch they were gained.    It's EZ mode to just be lame, not pay any attention to your build...    have you never had to be accountable?

 

The queue system sounds like a decent plan.

And games are for fun, not to make you accountable. . .  Yes, they need to present a challenge blah blah blah.  But they should not frustrate, they should be enjoyable -- life is for frustration :)

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3 hours ago, Hasil said:

The queue system sounds like a decent plan.

And games are for fun, not to make you accountable. . .  Yes, they need to present a challenge blah blah blah.  But they should not frustrate, they should be enjoyable -- life is for frustration :)

The queue was certainly was an improvement in EVE Online. Though By the sounds of it, will the skills be gained at a fast enough rate to actually need a queue?

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9 hours ago, Powrigan said:

The queue was certainly was an improvement in EVE Online. Though By the sounds of it, will the skills be gained at a fast enough rate to actually need a queue?

it's 10 times faster for testing. the first group will take 30 days complete unless it's been adjusted.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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