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Enerzeal

Been a long time coming...

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I think I can track my history of waiting for Sandbox MMO's back to the MMO called Mourning, that was back in 2005. It released in beta with barely a map and a set of skills - it promised so much, all of the things that I needed from an MMO.

That game released with a single map, and was broken beyond reason - a catastrophic mess.

What then followed was a massive chain of MMO's that failed in similar ways to hold to the promises they'd outlined, though the feature lists might be on it's way, or developing - the games always fell short on several key areas.

  • Server lag
  • Frame Rate Issues
  • Constant Game Breaking Bugs
  • Huge animation problems that leave you feeling completely disconnected from the world

It has got to the point now that when a client is available, and they suffer from any of these issues - I don't even bother getting hyped up for a game. In Mortal Online I ran a guild Kindred Rising, formed on the forums, and waited patiently for the first iterations of the game to come out, and I made the same mistake for a slew of other games - each time I was let down.

Now I just wait for the game to evolve to a point that it ticks those boxes, for me personally Crowfall just made it  to that point - a point where I now feel that this game might potentially make it there, the risk factor has dropped. 5.7 has some incredibly smooth animations, the FPS is solid - my connection from the UK to the American server is frankly better than I've seen it in many other tripple A titles. 

 

All in all - Crowfall very much so has my attention, after a drought in the sandbox world that has lasted so long I figured that themeparks - korean sandparks - and Fortnite were the future.

It's definitely been a long time coming!

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What makes Crowfall a sandbox or what is a sandbox?

I find such terms to be rather meaningless as there aren't any standard definitions, yet people use them to make something sound better/worse because they are insert term. Like the negative baggage "themepark" has while a "sandbox" is the second coming. Yet As you've pointed out, this ideal concept (whatever we think it is), hasn't ever really existed for the most part. I just find the whole thing interesting.

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Enerzeal I hope you are aware that you are the only 1-2% who enjoy the current state of the game. They need to go away from passive training in my opinion, and give player an active skill tree like in old Ultima Online game or Shadowbane which is like 1000 times better than the current system. So those who enjoy and actually play the game feels rewarded with a more in-game active skill tree which take some days to master like in Shadowbane.

Go away from EvE custard progression is a great start, because it`s sci-fi genre - it don`t work well in a fantasy setting which suppose to instant action pack from the launch - not wait months to reach end game content, or avoid PvP, because it cost too much resources to have fun in a custard PvP focused game. 


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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4 minutes ago, mythx said:

Enerzeal I hope you are aware that you are the only 1-2% who enjoy the current state of the game. They need to go away from passive training in my opinion, and give player an active skill tree like in old Ultima Online game or Shadowbane which is like 1000 times better than the current system. So those who enjoy and actually play the game feels rewarded with a more in-game active skill tree which take some days to master like in Shadowbane.

Go away from EvE custard progression is a great start, because it`s sci-fi genre - it don`t work well in a fantasy setting which suppose to instant action pack from the launch - not wait months to reach end game content, or avoid PvP, because it cost too much resources to have fun in a custard PvP focused game. 

Well, time bassed progression was going to be the only progression in the game when they started the kickstarter campaign. What ACE should remove is the xp levels and make the vessels destroyable and even lootable in some campaign rules. But this is just the way I see it. :)

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EvE players won`t play this game based on my reasoning it`s a sci-fi game, except 1 one on twitch, but he is an exception. It has nothing to with experience @Extintor progression and vessel. The core gameplay and end game items with combat skills need to be accessible some days into a campaign, not months

Go away from passive skill trees, and start to work on an active skill tree progression tree related to pvp and combat similar to Shadowbane & UO. 

No one enjoy the time wall carrot to experience new content in an mmo and feel rewarded with your character, because most players are used to in-game progression and get instant rewarded to play their custard game. 

 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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39 minutes ago, mythx said:

They need to go away from passive training in my opinion, and give player an active skill tree like in old Ultima Online game or Shadowbane which is like 1000 times better than the current system.

Doing that would negatively affect VIP, which would likely destroy their business model. 

Active training has its downsides too, as grinding mobs for XP or crafting a bunch of crap for XP isn't fun.

There's nothing wrong with passive training. They just need to tweak the timing to make it less painful in the beginning. 

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I played Eve for 6 years, I know other Eve players playing this game already and others intending to play it at launch. For me it's not about fantasy games, sci-fi games, whatever games, it's about games where you can loose everything you have, games with meaningful victories and defeats.

ACE has been selling a game with time based skill progression for the past 3 years and people who bought the game bought that. If they want to change it's up to them, but they will be changing what their customers bought.

But, as I said, it's just the way I see it. :)

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No one will play this game @Arkade except the stubborn 1-3% with the current activity in-game and on forum. I played this game when it was A BR mode in Hunger Dome, and most enjoy the PvP aspect game play. I actually like the raid concept from WoW, because u get rewarded to be active in the game, and see how many live stream that game while no one bother with Crowfall. Have you notice that? Lirik and others from twitch play WoW from 2004, because they get rewarded to play the custard game.  There are no raids in CF for legendary items, but it`s crucial that a player feel rewarded when he/she play the game. 

So back to the active in-game skill trees and instant rewards to play CF. 

I`ve been against passive training since day 1  before this project was well known years ago. 

Edited by mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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1 hour ago, mythx said:

No one will play this game @Arkade except the stubborn 1-3% with the current activity in-game and on forum. I played this game when it was A BR mode in Hunger Dome, and most enjoy the PvP aspect game play. I actually like the raid concept from WoW, because u get rewarded to be active in the game, and see how many live stream that game while no one bother with Crowfall. Have you notice that? Lirik and others from twitch play WoW from 2004, because they get rewarded to play the custard game.  There are no raids in CF for legendary items, but it`s crucial that a player feel rewarded when he/she play the game. 

So back to the active in-game skill trees and instant rewards to play CF. 

I`ve been against passive training since day 1  before this project was well known years ago. 

Sandbox pvp games aren't great for streaming. You are very likely to get stream-sniped. Some people do stream it, but it will never be streamed as much as a themepark MMO like WoW.

I think you should focus less on the one system that is passive and look to the active gameplay that is rewarded, such as exploration, socialization, harvesting, crafting, and combat. There are many ways to make active progression in the game. The skill training system is just one small part of Crowfall.

Edited by Jah

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I know some of you put way too much money into this, but this is not the core game play I was looking for when I bought into this game with play to crush brand. The Harvesting & Crafting in most mmos is a side project for a good reason, because few people enjoy it. The passive skill training system is a pile of garbage and that is why it`s low activity. So active in-game skill tress is the way to go which u master in some days just like Shadowbane or UO. Then you can start to build different unique PvP template and builds just like Shadowbane, because the end game is not months down the road, but some days progression. 


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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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13 minutes ago, mythx said:

I know some of you put way too much money into this, but this is not the core game play I was looking for when I bought into this game with play to crush brand.

Passive training is not the core game play of Crowfall. Look to the active stuff for that.


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I remember many players in Winterblades, @Jah  and many played SB for years to the start to the end. And maybe I overract, but it`s important that game content including items/skills feels rewarding while you are active playing especially for new players which is so crucial in a strategic war game like CF. 

Edited by mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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9 minutes ago, mythx said:

I remember many players in Winterblades, @Jah  and many played SB for years to the start to the end. And maybe I overract, but it`s important that game content including items/skills feels rewarding while you are active playing especially for new players which is so crucial in a strategic war game like CF. 

That is why I am suggesting you look to the active stuff that the game has rather than focusing on the one passive system. The game does include things that reward active play.

Edited by Jah

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How do you explain 29/200 on the US server right now in Aerynth US East? Very few enjoy the active gameplay in CF in 5.7 patch. And it need to be addressed with an in-game active skill progession tree related to combat which is much faster to master. The experience you gain from your vessel killing animals is not what I`m talking about, or sacrifice items to a god to gain vessel experience. It`s part of the class/race system progression and item progression which is behind locked passive time Walls to reach the end game content to compete in PvP over destructible sand castles which more likely will cost a lot of resources. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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21 minutes ago, mythx said:

I know some of you put way too much money into this, but this is not the core game play I was looking for when I bought into this game with play to crush brand. The Harvesting & Crafting in most mmos is a side project for a good reason, because few people enjoy it. The passive skill training system is a pile of garbage and that is why it`s low activity. So active in-game skill tress is the way to go which u master in some days just like Shadowbane or UO. Then you can start to build different unique PvP template and builds just like Shadowbane, because the end game is not months down the road, but some days progression. 

Anecdotally, I felt pretty crushed last night (order).  Logged in to find camps close to our portal owned by the enemy, and our closest fort taken and occupied, for the second day in a row.

Didn't have the time to form up a group and try to do some large things, but I did have time solo to do things that were valuable though.  Found out about the impact that seasons can have on gathering (loved how that played out). Managed to make off with 3k of gold (650+ white mats from NPC vendors I couldn't get to), from critter hunting for about an hour, and the only time I even thought about my skill training was when I wanted to see if my crafting was high enough now to make a pair of boots.

I think your are conflating interesting with fun.  Skill training isn't really over interesting in CF, and frankly i have never found a game where the act of getting new skills is "fun". It's fun after you get them, but the process itself has always been a bit of a grind in every game I have ever played. 

That said, even the very rough state of territory control is actually quite fun, if you just go out and actually play the game.

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3 minutes ago, mythx said:

How do you explain 29/200 on the US server right now in Aerynth US East? Very few enjoy the active gameplay in CF in 5.7. And it need to be addressed with an in-game active skill progession tree related to combat which is much faster to master. The experience you gain from your vessel killing animals is not what I`m talking about, or sacrifice items to a god to gain vessel experience. It`s part of the class/race system progression and item progression which is behind locked passive time Walls

Pre-Alpha TESTING with zero marketing because they are not going to heavily market an incomplete game.

Your not just moving the goalposts, your playing on the wrong field.  This level of EVERYTHING has always been part of the plan.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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3 minutes ago, mythx said:

How do you explain 29/200 on the US server right now in Aerynth US East?

Game is not finished. Most people prefer to play a finished game, not a pre-alpha test of an unfinished one.


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@KrakkenSmacken You are wrong buddy, because over 275k players have paid for CF already since it started - why are players losing interest? It must be something serious wrong with their core game concepts like Harvesting & Crafting in focus instead of PvP combat, right.

TOTAL CROWS:
 
275,829
BACKERS:
 
61,149
 
Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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1 minute ago, mythx said:

@KrakkenSmacken You are wrong buddy, because over 200k players have paid for CF already since it started - why are players losing interest? It must be something fudamentaly wrong with their core game concepts like Harvesting & Crafting in focus, right..

TOTAL CROWS:
 
275,829
BACKERS:
 
61,149

Most of those people would prefer to play the game when it is ready, not to spend a lot of time testing it while it is still being developed.


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8 minutes ago, mythx said:

@KrakkenSmacken You are wrong buddy, because over 200k players (backers) have paid for CF already since it started - why are players losing interest? It must be something fudamentaly wrong with their core game concepts like Harvesting & Crafting in focus, right..

TOTAL CROWS:
 
275,829
BACKERS:
 
61,149

Fixed that for you, and no I'm not wrong. 

Check the badge, I'm an investor, which means that in addition to wanting this game to succeed so I can play it, I also want it to succeed so I can make money.

As an investor I get a confidential monthly report that explains all those numbers, and far far more.  I think I'm well enough informed visa-vi player numbers to say that things are going to plan.

Most people won't start to play until passive skill progress is no longer subject to being wiped out.  People who want progression, don't want to "waste time" knowing the deck will be cleared repeatedly. 

When ACE announces Beta and the end of skill wipes, that's when "players" will show up.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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