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Wrain

Came here for Shadowbane/Pvp, not pass/craft sim

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I'd love to see this get 800k at release and the GROW from there.  I hope the people who jump into early access and write it off will come back for launch...but first impressions are everything.  A very sad part of this business model.  And if the game is difficult for new players to come in late, even 800k is just going to drop and drop until it dies.

The days when the server is populated is awesome.  The days when it is dead suck.  This isn't a themepark or single player game where other players don't matter.  The enjoyment of the game is entirely dependent on people being in game and playing.  Harvesting without running into other players is the most boringest thing in the world (I wish they would only have one campaign until population increases lol), but when you are running into groups smaller and larger than yours as you do, it can become interesting.

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On 8/19/2018 at 2:57 AM, mythx said:

You can buy useless gear and white common materials @Frykka - if u want legendary you need to start farming sim 5.7 version, and with right tools and training which is harvesting. And such a system should be optional at best in any true pvp games which Todd should have stopped T. Blair a long time ago. Yes items will drop like in Shadowbane, but it has nothing to do with Arena or BR type of games. It generate PvP hot spots or point of interest which is crucial on a campaign world map.  

 Getting the best gear in Shadowbane took a while , don't forget we had to control mines, or get resource drops to be able to craft the best gear. and it wasn't easy to get some of the better discipline runes either. Like a godly int. plus in the shadowbane you had to level to even be viable. and there were no restrictions level to level for killing . 

 

 

Edited by yianni

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On 29/08/2018 at 6:14 PM, jaygrae said:

No its obviously NOT shadowbane.  The numbers alone speak for themselves.  800k at release on a BROKEN game and this live pre-alpha is struggling to maintain 100 people  interested and playing during testing releases.

Look, i'm NOT slamming or wanting this game to fail.  The main following at shadowbane forums/emulators etc were HOPING this was going to at least somewhat follow the ideas OF shadowbane.

Unfortunately, at least for me and some folks it is a VERY different game.  I did kickstart for Shroud of the Avatar for the VERY same reason I did this launch.  I was HOPING Richard Garriott would follow his Ultima Online origins but alas, he tried something different.  Not my cup of tea (or alot of other players as well as the numbers speak for themselves)

So to everyone enjoying this game, I honestly wish it the best and hope it does an AMAZING job at what its aiming for.  Its just not what I was expecting.

You will be better off coming back in 6 months or so when its a little more complete tbh

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The way I see it going is that you can level and gain coin, thus gear through grinding mobs JUST LIKE Shadowbane OR you can harvest materials and be on the supply side rather than the demand side to gain your gear...   in the end it has the Shadowbane feel of running in groups in a sand box world.    At this time the grind to viability in group PvP is much faster than in SB (launch SB level rate not the later accelerated rate).   I don't think many remember when SB took weeks to get to R5 and R6 was an endless single spawn grind. 

A lot has changed in player expectations since fall 2002...  

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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18 minutes ago, Frykka said:

The way I see it going is that you can level and gain coin, thus gear through grinding mobs JUST LIKE Shadowbane OR you can harvest materials and be on the supply side rather than the demand side to gain your gear...   in the end it has the Shadowbane feel of running in groups in a sand box world.    At this time the grind to viability in group PvP is much faster than in SB (launch SB level rate not the later accelerated rate).   I don't think many remember when SB took weeks to get to R5 and R6 was an endless single spawn grind. 

A lot has changed in player expectations since fall 2002...  

 

I remember the grind, the time of afk macroing. It did take an awful long time and was mind numbing.

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It would take people months to finish chars in the first year+ of SB.  I suspect the op didn’t set realistic expectations and is just angry and venting for the sake of validation.  This isn’t a finished game, you’re bitching about finished game problems.  


This post was paid for by "Mandalore for Emulated CF Community Manager 2032™". 

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Reading comprehension is something you may want to work on.  Coming off as a "defensive fanboi" is beginning to suit your posts well.

NOWHERE am I condemning "finished game problems".  The CORE of this game is NOT going to change.  The combat is the typical spin around and "click icon/skill" for attacking, passive skill training while offline, and of course the infamous decision to have very bland/safe decision made disciplines and skills.

I have no clue to why you are even this upset about a factual post about the mechanics and direction of an engine, yet here you are coming off like a child.  If you love the game, GREAT!  Enjoy it, spend your hard earned money and enjoy.  But don't come on here spewing gibberish about "finished game problems" when the core engine of the game is already completed.  If you believe the "frame" of something being built on is going to somehow grow wings and turn into a COMPLETELY different animal than its framework..I got some magic beans for you to buy...then again, it sounds like you already dumped a ton into this game cash wise.  (whistles)

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There some is definitely off with crowfall. Right now it's quite tedious to play, but that's because you really only have harvesting and crafting to do. It's still missing a significant game loop. I'm not sure, however, even with the game loop if crowfall will be fun or a chore to play. When crowfall was announced and kick started there really wasn't much if any competition. Now we're sitting in a literal sea of potential competition (which is a good thing). Camelot Unchained, Asses of Creation are both aiming for 2019/2020. We also have other triple A projects on the horizon that are similar to crowfall. New World and potentially even The Lineage which is a direct sequel to the first lineage which was basically korean ultima online and heavily pvp focused.

I kinda feel like outside the "grindy" nature of crowfall the biggest hit they'll take is the actual combat. They worked on combat for a year and had way more misses then hits. Now we're left with something that's not necessarily terrible, but at the same time doesn't really help crowfall stand out.

I'm hopeful at least.

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9 hours ago, izkimar said:

combat...doesn't really help crowfall stand out

This is how I feel about harvesting in Crowfall. I like the mechanics (action harvesting, discs, tools, doobers) but every game I've been playing lately also has harvesting: Conan Exiles, Fornite: BR, Bless Online, WoW BFA.

What makes Crowfall unique to me is the Throne War concept of merging an MMOrpg with a Strategy game you can win. That's what I am waiting for, and what I hope will be delivered eventually because that is truly innovative.

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I feel like most people with problems regarding pvp, haven't played in a well organized group vs. another organized group yet or recently. Until recently my only experience with this game was Myrm/Fessor/Lego meta, I definitely would have took a hard pass on that game. Some of the good fights this last week are the most Shadowbane feeling thing I've felt since... Shadowbane. Nothing in any other MMO I've really tried since has come close until now. I also only really get the "spin your camera around" and click vibe from soloish-pew-pew-lol play. I could even see how people could watch a big fight and think that's the game. If you're in coms with people playing properly, it just results in a better version of SB having no /assist because there's no tab or /tar either. It's like the ultimate check on whether people can follow directions and coordinate.

The disc system as one complained about doesn't feel much different than SBs did. Actually it seems the whole system has a larger impact on the end result of your character than SBs had; don't get me wrong there were some SB builds 100% reliant on disc build, but I played plenty of SB toons that were waiting on a specific disc but were still perfectly viable without it. Only really playing druid atm, but I can't see myself playing it without most all the discs I run now. Base classes just don't have viability, and the base kit hardly helps if you run a terrible disc build. The lack of starting trait options that SB had do make it harder to mess up your toon initially, I agree with that. You however can still build a totally garbage character (as most do), pretty easily.

Definitely not a fanboy post here. I was ready to write this game off just ten days ago. Good thing eeny-meeny-miny-moe between Crowfall and a WoW sub landed on Crowfall.

Edited by Falco.

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Dude I get it. Right now PvP is like a death match without any winners. And death match is the most bland version of PvP there is. Then you dump on the lack of consequences, no impactful game loop, minimal mob variation, harvesting seems to be the only thing you can do that feels like you are progressing. 

Because of this and that CF has opened it's doors YEARS earlier than any other MMO so crazy fan can test lots of broken incomplete systems it is easy to feel like it's a boring game.... BECAUSE IT IS. Lol

It won't stay that way and most of the hype people feel is we can see how it will all fit together POST LAUNCH. 

This is going it be a conquest heavy game. The thrill of victory is going to take MONTHS to achieve. There will be no short term BR or MOBA PvP. This will be truly a unique style of combat...not even week long Civ games can come close to this...and I can't wait!

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Jaygrae, you make extremely valid points and I completely agree with you. I wouldn't get too upset at the lack of likes and the backlash against your comments. The active community on the forums represents somewhere around 0.005% of backers. 50,000 backers, currently approximately 30 players online during peak time on servers. Being extremely generous I'd say there are 500 active players and 250 active guys that post on forums.

That in mind these are the guys that stick around and are happy with the current state of the game and development progress. You aren't going to find much love writing logical posts.

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On 8/17/2018 at 3:45 AM, jaygrae said:

Not sure what is going on with the direction of this game, but I don't feel like "crafting" simulator 2020 is what pvper's are looking for.

Buddy already quit, and 5.7 just feels more like a wow/fortnite/eve bastard-child.

 

I seriously thought this game was going to bring back that dark/evil feeling of Shadowbane.  In-depth classes, ways to screw up your toon, and 1000's of different build/combos.   Instead its cartoony, wow-esk, and wants to add the new craze of "crafting survival game".

 

Cmon guys, your BASE who came here are us older adults who flocked to your original love.  Shadowbane/DAOC/UO....Hoping this project really makes a hard-right turn. ;(

The fact I check in every half a year and every time I do posts like this are on the top of the general forums and have a couple of months with no recent responses shows that no matter what these other people say, you're correct.  They don't understand their audience is the only possible explanation.  Everyones older, looking for a specific feeling, and don't really care about the other poorly made socks.  Tons of die hard goofies will sit and talk about all these specific systems they want, but they don't understand how to build a vision or a company.

The only important thing is developing a minimum viable product that can make some money, be enjoyable for users, and fund further development.  It's been years and millions of dollars and this still doesn't custard exist.  While on a superficial layer some nerds might care, most people will not be kept around by some crazy complex crafting system, tons of progression grinding, other random art crap.  That poorly made socks is icing on the cake of something that is already working well and attracting more people.

The goal should have always been, and should be, simply making an easy to get into game for people with less time that is highly reminiscent of shadowbane with a couple of huge issues fixed.  I don't think people really even care so much about what form it takes or how even things like combat works.  Everything should have just been geared towards the SIMPLEST possible combat system that works well on large scale and is easy to make without being bug ridden.  Even tab target is still fun if it's just a backdrop to what the players actually want - an empire building game.

Here's how this should work after 5 years of development to have a thriving community:

The front page of this poorly made sockspile website should be blank and there should be nothing but a PLAY2CRUSH button on the front page where you click, download a client, make an account, and start playing within 5 minutes of coming to this website.  The combat is simple, the basic gear is easy to get, you're put with lots of other players and you can just start killing some mobs and looting and getting a feel for the combat and purchasing crap from vendors.  There are NPC guilds you can quickly join that constantly wage war against each other and have tons of players in them which can't gank or loot you.  You fight other guilds, get a taste of looting corpses, getting wealthier as you win, getting exposed to more powerful items/equipment/training/tactics/stuff to do and get a real taste for poorly made socks real fast.  At some point you learn about player guilds, see how much even more freedom they get in building empires, gaining wealth, getting the best gear, raiding villages, capturing resource generators, sieging enemies, waging wars off-world on temporary short lived servers that give powerful rewards, and so on. 

I want to give money, and I want to try your game.  But it's like I gotta jump through hoops, and PAY YOU, just to see what's going on here.  But guess what, if I'm going to pay money I'm also going to read first - which means now I gotta go through forums and scan for info about how poorly made socks is, waste more time/interest, and also realize that most people are not happy here.  Now I'm definitely not going to pay, and I'm annoyed at how much time you made me waste.  That's not a great way to grow.  Show, don't tell.  Get me involved fast, show me the potential, and I'll gladly throw money at you.

I'm superbly confident this company and game would be saved if they literally scrapped all the hogwash, remade a basic shadowbane system over a couple months, wiped the website and just replaced it with a play2crush button and 1 paragraph blurb, and let you download and try the game for free.  After 50 hours of play time total, it asks you to pay monthly if you'd like to keep your account.  That's it.  Fire all the worthless redundant employees and cut costs too. Add a subreddit or some poorly made socks to chat with players for feedback sometimes, these forums don't do poorly made socks.  If they did the game wouldn't be dead.

Edited by frobobo

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I played shadowbane a ton back in the day, started on war server day 1.

 

Now I do share some of your concern, but as far as a shadowbane type game crowfall has the most potential to be its best thing we got so far and this is how..

 

Server type : guild vs guild 

Nothing comes out and the server will have some type of win condition. That's what keeps me interested.

 

Btw i hate the passive training system too.

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PVP fix for current state of CF(dead and farming/crafting)

Just two seconds about me: I'm a 40 y/o Shadowbane player.  Have also had nothing but an "empty" feeling from other games overtime. Have played a decent amount of mmorpg's but still overall, just a casual player, with a family and looking for a worthy game to invest my time in.

Now, to my current pvp fix suggestion...just to get the pvp'ers by until the game integrates more pvp content. Just toss some sort of "end-gamey" or higher level pvp anything into the game.   They could just make the chests in the game randomly drop something besides an apple or other crap loot.  If there was a piece of armor or a nice weapon in there (different skin, but nothing any powerful than what is currently in game) people would camp around them trying to farm rare "loot".  This in turn creates pvp hotspot. Similar to SB Disc drop locations or Vorgrim armor drops. Just add literally anything to give a sense of excitement with that "what if this drops" or "oh crap, pk's in the area" etc.... And people with have their own fun with it.  

 

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I think this quote sums up why some people go wrong with expectations.

"I seriously thought this game was going to bring back that dark/evil feeling of Shadowbane. "

The thing is its not Shadowbane and never wanted to be Shadowbane, it sounds like you were looking for something else and had a complete different expectation for what you thought it was going to be.  As for me I'm glad its not a Shadowbane remake and I love the direction its going.

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