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soulein

Champion Heal

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2 hours ago, soulein said:

The heal from Ultimate Warrior needs to be removed or drastically toned down.... prove me wrong.

Pro tip: You can't.

real suggestion: replace the instant healing from ultimate warrior with a "legio discipline" style mechanic.

which for those that don't remember:

places a buff on the user. for their next three hits on an enemy they will be healed a set amount [unconnected to damage done - it is not a % lifesteal].

has a short ish duration if they don't connect the hits. you could just take the current burst heal [based on % max life] and spread it over three instead.

more skill/counterplay, less silly/easy "burst".

Edited by Tinnis

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as fast fix they can make it like druid retaliate. but DoT based heal with the same amount of HP can be even worst as result.

Instant heal for 2k effective if you have low HP but ineffective if you have, for example, 5000 out of 6000 HP. HoT will be more effective on the most of situations.

healing amount should be reduced before doing this.

 

atm imo champion is not "glass cannon". tanking potential even more than tanks have ontop of mobility and DPS/burst amount

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2 hours ago, makkon said:

as fast fix they can make it like druid retaliate.

heh dont remind me about druid retaliate ¬_¬

*heals for 48, 48, 48 in three seconds...i'm helping!*

Edited by Tinnis

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Champion has three self heals (2x UW and Destroyer heal) that heal for as much or more (depending on total HP) than rescue. CD's are also pretty low. I'd prefer it keeps the damage/mobility while losing some of its self-sustain. I really like how the class plays. It just needs very little attention from healers making it by far the best tank/dps imo.

Edited by MJayed

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Fake news

Champ is an underpowered class. It was steadily gotten worse over the last six months and you have been reported for this attack on a poor defenseless class.

Edited by Zatch

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Other classes should be buffed. Nerfing good classes is an easy solution that causes bigger problems, IMO. Let's also remember that Aegis of Salvation requires a discipline rune that will not always cost 1 ore and 1 dust.

A tone-down, fine, tweak - but do not remove. Melee is already in a pretty rough spot.

I'm much more interested in how to buff myrms, knights, etc.

Edited by McTan

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11 minutes ago, McTan said:

Other classes should be buffed. Nerfing good classes is an easy solution that causes bigger problems, IMO. Let's also remember that Aegis of Salvation requires a discipline rune that will not always cost 1 ore and 1 dust.

A tone-down, fine, tweak - but do not remove. Melee is already in a pretty rough spot.

I'm much more interested in how to buff myrms, knights, etc.

The thing is if you Champs are ridiculous because they can do everything well without sacrificing anything in terms of rune slots. If you buff every other class to do what champs do the class system is relatively pointless.  

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Just now, Zatch said:

The thing is if you Champs are ridiculous because they can do everything well without sacrificing anything in terms of rune slots. If you buff every other class to do what champs do the class system is relatively pointless.  

Destroyer is pretty much a required rune for Aegis of Salvation which is one of the reasons Champ healing is so good. I agree with them being ridiculous but the rune slot thing isn't 100% accurate in the case of Destroyer. 

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9 minutes ago, Zatch said:

The thing is if you Champs are ridiculous because they can do everything well without sacrificing anything in terms of rune slots. If you buff every other class to do what champs do the class system is relatively pointless.  

I am not saying buff everyone to be like Champions, that would be stupid and awful. Make other classes better at what they already do. If you nerf Champion UW heal, think of the ramifications. Champs are front-line pushers, but if you jump in without a good self-sustain, you are pretty much toast, besides rescue.

Other melee will feel better if they are made a bit stronger relative to rangers, as well. More roots for myrms, shorter cooldown on chain pull for knight? I don't know, I just know that Champs took the nerf bat hard once, and even though they are strong again, they are less interesting than they could have been. Makes me cautious to prescribe nerfs.

At this point nerfs are typically bats, not scalpels.

Also note that Champions who jump in should probably be rooted and the like, instead of DPSing them, and then their UW would not charge nearly as fast. What about suppressing them? 

Edited by McTan

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6 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Destroyer is pretty much a required rune for Aegis of Salvation which is one of the reasons Champ healing is so good. I agree with them being ridiculous but the rune slot thing isn't 100% accurate in the case of Destroyer. 

Been awhile since I played champ, what is the healing on ultimate warrior? Tool tips don't seem to have it on the web. 

Ultimate warrior is a base level issue with champs. The class is billed to to be a glass cannon melee who jumps in does aoe damage and jumps out. The ability to heal twice in rapid succession for at least 30% (believe its somewhere around 50%) + of your health with the only punishment being a 30sec cd window is downright op. When combined with the ability to stack dominance between fights, the ability to jump between lines/chase, and great cc tools the class has downright to much.  

15 minutes ago, McTan said:

I am not saying buff everyone to be like Champions, that would be awful. Make other classes better at what they already do. If you nerf Champion UW heal, think of the ramifications. Champs are front-line pushers, but if you jump in without a good self-sustain, you are pretty much toast, besides rescue.

Other melee will feel better if they are made a bit stronger relative to rangers, as well. More roots for myrms, shorter cooldown on chain pull for knight? I don't know, I just know that Champs took the nerf bat hard once, and even though they are strong again, they are less interesting than they could have been. Makes me cautious to prescribe nerfs.

I've never heard of champs as the front line pushers. I've only heard of them as the aoe glass cannon melee class. The amount of CC is already a major issue in Crowfall. Decreasing the CDs or adding more crowd control is going to exacerbate the issue.

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17 minutes ago, Zatch said:

Been awhile since I played champ, what is the healing on ultimate warrior? Tool tips don't seem to have it on the web. 

Ultimate warrior is a base level issue with champs. The class is billed to to be a glass cannon melee who jumps in does aoe damage and jumps out. The ability to heal twice in rapid succession for at least 30% (believe its somewhere around 50%) + of your health with the only punishment being a 30sec cd window is downright op. When combined with the ability to stack dominance between fights, the ability to jump between lines/chase, and great cc tools the class has downright to much.  

I think it's roughly 30% per UW. 

Aegis of Salvation is a 500 pt barrier with a 10-15% heal when barrier breaks on a ~ 20 second cooldown, FYI. Still significant. 

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10 minutes ago, blazzen said:

I think it's roughly 30% per UW. 

Aegis of Salvation is a 500 pt barrier with a 10-15% heal when barrier breaks on a ~ 20 second cooldown, FYI. Still significant. 

Aegis is probably to strong in general, but you do give up a disc slot for it. Discs should be powerful. They allow for customization and let players have a real choice in how their character engages in combat.  

It's just the base abilities the class has are to strong. 

Edited by Zatch

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I would like to see Runescarred Gladiator and Destroyer made available to other classes as they have some very neat mechanics but only available to Champions. 
Perhaps if other classes had such unique tailor made Discipline choices it would not be so jarring but Champion stands alone in this.

The Healing from Ultimate Warrior (like most Healing in this game) is affected by both Healing Modifier and Personal Healing Modifier which allowed what 'should' only be a 30% Heal to get up to ~50%

Just the fact that it is such a strong %HP based Heal makes it scale extremely well.

Champion was touted as a High Damage Melee Class with lower Survivability than a Myrmidon, Templar or Knight, described as shining in one on one scenarios.

Personally I wouldn't change the Heal of Ultimate Warrior so much as removing the Invulnerability it provides.
Negating the ability to ignore damage and CC for a second or two when in a group fight can be huge but it wouldn't negatively affect duel style combat as much.
Blood of the Giant I would keep the iFrames while still keeping the skills linked allowing a HG Champ to choose between the 2.

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I think the dominator mechanic (the ability to build auto-crit pips) is pretty cool and definitely gave champs the burst damage they needed. The fact that they can also heal so much on top of this is insane. With plate and the right minor runes, they're just as durable as any tank in the game. The heal should be removed, but they should keep the i-frame to be used in clutch situations.

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Champion does trade things for its self heals. Like chaining CC and Aoe Bleeds. No chain pull or net.  Heal block or coordinate CC and they are left vulnerable imho   They are just easier to play then other fighters. Yes they are very strong. Are they so strong they make other choices not worth taking? I don't think so. Knight Templar and myrmidon are all still very good in gvg. I see plenty of champions go down fast. I would rather see templar made more viable then see champ nerfed.

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I mentioned nerf heal powers in general on all classes except Cleric & Druid since I think the cleric role will be more important in GvG fights, but I really don`t know guys. I just started to learn the game about 2 weeks ago and played active each day to get updated with all the class changes and patch updates in 5.7 since I was away for almost 1 year.  I`m testing a champion now and it feels powerful, but it`s a dps class and it helps to be a half giant as well with high STR/CON stats. 

Maybe it`s a wrong build, but I use Destroyer, Blademaster, Demon pact, uniform mail and armor of faith, because I can`t fit a glass cannon rune just for higher dps effects, because other passive powers are more important to generate rage for instant in combat and some powers that reduce cool downs on other powers. So I really don`t know if it`s any point to nerf the class at the moment, and if you consider the class powerful, great! It`s a dps class, and consider to play it when we are closer to soft launch. I also had the Sugoi guild to roll me an advance two hand weapon + 123 attack power on it +6.6 critical hit damage bonus on it since they are Balance faction too, and I bought a good mail set as well. And the champion class is fun to play and farm with for sure with a relative high attack power above 400 (+100 with Blademaster Rune) healing orb for a short duration with a lv. 2 vessel, but the attack power cap is 3000 so it`s obviously not that high without elite/legendary items. My highest critical with my Q was above 1300 damage which happened only 1 time so far after hours of playing with the same class. 

Edited by mythx

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