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Crafting Risk Asymmetry


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So, this is likely to devolve into a bit of rant, so I apologize in advance.

I don't understand how being a Crafter (or a Resource Gatherer) is supposed to be fun.

  1. When I go out to Craft anything of value, I'm required to travel to one of the Forts in the Campaign, and travel with the materials I need to craft said object.
  2. By virtue of being a dedicated Crafter, I'm at a disadvantage in combat compared to the majority of players, who spec for combat.
  3. So, any encounter I have with a PvP'er I'm pretty much destined to lose, regardless if it's a 1v1, or GroupvGroup since, all other things being equal, I'm a detriment to the group's combat effectiveness.
  4. Beyond that, a PvP based character needs to bring nothing with them to engage in their primary Path - simply their equipment on the paper doll (Which they can't lose).
  5. I, however, must carry valuable objects while travelling long distances through combat zones simply to engage in the party I might have fun with.
  6. So, if the PvPer loses, they can do so without loss of any items, whereas I will always lose something valuable.

What's the fun in being less likely to win, with more to lose?

Inevitably, this will draw out the "This is a PvP game, bro, deal." crowd, but I'm super tired of being content for other players to beat on, with no recourse.

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3 hours ago, Nicodeimus said:

Inevitably, this will draw out the "This is a PvP game, bro, deal." crowd, but I'm super tired of being content for other players to beat on, with no recourse.

Seems to me like your almost deliberately setting yourself up to fail.

  • Find friends. 
  • Not every trip ends in a fight.  In fact, most don't.  I've wandered around unmolested for hours. If you are a really dedicated crafter, what are you doing traveling anyway?  Camp at the forts with the tables.
  • Focus on EK crafting.  Set up shop, buy your mats off other players, and craft in total peace.
  • Wait to travel from the portal until other players are heading out, doesn't even need to be a guild mate.
  • Pick a stealth class and sneak around with your stuff, and don't go if you see danger.
  • Get there once, use the chests.  You don't have to pull the contents out when the forts flip, just wait until it flips back to your side.
  • Forts sell the basic mats,  so you can do naked, with all your gold farmed in the safety of the beach head on the boars, in your spirit bank, pull that out when you get to the fort. That covers all but the more complex crafting things like necromancy, alchemy, and gem making.  If you picked one of those as your profession, and are not planning on joining a guild, you have picked a very tough row to hoe.

It also doesn't matter what you train skill wise, if your not a PvP player, you are not going to have the skills to PvP with any skill or gear, so you are naturally giving yourself a disadvantage that no amount of changes to game systems would fix. 

There are all sorts of avenues to recourse. Most of them social.  If you don't like being social, I'm not really sure why you think picking a very social profession will be fun for you. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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You can have a character spec as combat and as either a resource gatherer but if you choose to do both resource gathering and combat then you are purposefully making yourself worse in those areas.If that is your style, so be it but you can't do everything and be everything on one character.

I think you also discount the value that PvPers place on crafting. They like their shiny high level gear. The economical pieces and game loops aren't yet in game to take advantage of it but once they are it will be better for you. In the end though, this game may not be for you as it won't appeal to everyone. You also have to determine that for yourself.

From my standpoint, if there is high risk, there should be a possibility of a high reward. Right now, that high reward is missing.

 

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I will agree the loot system is screwed to be in favor of those people Pking over anything else, simply cause they can pvp with practically nothing in inventory, so they have very little to loose, compared to people moving resources or farming and so on.

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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@veeshan It`s not an accurate view - a combat focus character can have 1000 + gold in the inventory at least in this 5.7 patch - which he/she needs to buy resources after farming x mobs. But the main difference that the person can defend better compare to a crafter/harvester, but still a risk of losing something. And the armor durability go relative quick down now - and a set of mail cost 1k gold ++ 

And if you enjoy combat you train crafting + combat - you don`t need to train both harvesting/crafting to just gimp yourself unless you have two accounts and want a harvester character who are good to find rare maths on different nodes. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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36 minutes ago, Brevalear said:

I have to admit I have wondered why there isn't one of those special chests in the forts that allows you to pull from the other local chests in the world.

Because it's supposed to be risky, or costly (spirit bank transfer tokens) to move things around the world. 

The only reason there is a beachhead pull chest is to prevent people from losing everything when they lose a fort, and get pushed too far down the slippery slope. That teleport chest is actually an unpleasant trade off, that players can always transfer goods to the beach head basically at will, which is why there is nothing really at the beach head but the most minimal things to get back into the "real" game.

Eventually, the spirit bank is only going to work at designated locations, not everywhere.

Sacrifice pits, intermediate crafting, and intermediate vendors, that's it. 

Everything else is by design supposed to move through the dangerous world.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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On 8/22/2018 at 6:21 PM, Nicodeimus said:
  • When I go out to Craft anything of value, I'm required to travel to one of the Forts in the Campaign, and travel with the materials I need to craft said object.
  • By virtue of being a dedicated Crafter, I'm at a disadvantage in combat compared to the majority of players, who spec for combat.
  • So, any encounter I have with a PvP'er I'm pretty much destined to lose, regardless if it's a 1v1, or GroupvGroup since, all other things being equal, I'm a detriment to the group's combat effectiveness.
  • Beyond that, a PvP based character needs to bring nothing with them to engage in their primary Path - simply their equipment on the paper doll (Which they can't lose).
  • I, however, must carry valuable objects while travelling long distances through combat zones simply to engage in the party I might have fun with.
  • So, if the PvPer loses, they can do so without loss of any items, whereas I will always lose something valuable

In general I agree with your analysis. There is currently an imbalance in the risk vs. reward for crafters/harvesters vs pvpers.

Some of the problem is the early state of development, as I can guess how things might change when new features are added like scoring and win conditions (those competitive pvpers will have something to lose :lol:). Definitely keep giving feedback on it in future builds - it's important because we don't want all the crafters to quit out of frustration. For now though, you can use some of the suggested strategies like stealth, and social avenues to make it work.

tiPrpwh.png

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If ACE add full loot drop in the Dregs guild setting and limited locations to use a spirit bank it will not help that much, because very large guilds will just play the number game and those with most players usually win at least without friendly fire in this current combat system. So to help out small guilds and how to stay competitive in Crowfall is to create a system that is much easier to access with different skill progression trees with one character. So you have more options related to harvesting/combat/crafting without buying 3-4 accounts for different roles. And I believe that ACE need to look into a guild system which involve friendly fire for example outside the group before the soft launch even though it will be more tricky with casters like the Confessor and probably Frostweaver concerning Area of effect damage types. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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