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Arcadi

New players catch-up and skill system

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31 minutes ago, Zatch said:

I think it comes down to you having no real understanding of what Crowfall is. From the ground up its built around social connections created through systems that force interaction. 

Really?  Like the response to me that is filled with half truths.  VIP will be essential as implemented today and as discussed.  VIP will have 3 training paths going at one time.  Non VIP will not.  What does social interaction have to do with balance and catching up?

VIP is so bad that most of the founders packs have it and it as you move forward in time you get less and less months?  It is 15 bucks a month.  That is called a sub.  Sure you chose not to pay.  You can do that in BDO and AA too and be quite inferior. 

Like I said there has been no public testing of a toon with zero skills same gear similar gaming skills vs a fully skilled out toon with same gear.  Until then, we can speculate till the cows come home if the skill trees are big advantage. 

It is people like you and Krakken that keep trying to minimize the impact of the skill trees and this has to be happening for a reason.  If the skills were a nothing burger you would be in another thread.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Talizar said:

Really?  Like the response to me that is filled with half truths.  VIP will be essential as implemented today and as discussed.  VIP will have 3 training paths going at one time.  Non VIP will not.  What does social interaction have to do with balance and catching up?

Can you play 3 characters at once on the same account? Do you understand how the game works?

VIP is so bad that most of the founders packs have it and it as you move forward in time you get less and less months?  It is 15 bucks a month.  That is called a sub.  Sure you chose not to pay.  You can do that in BDO and AA too and be quite inferior. 

Most of the founders packs have VIP because its an easy and free for ACE to give out. Again do you understand how the game works? 

Like I said there has been no public testing of a toon with zero skills same gear similar gaming skills vs a fully skilled out toon with same gear.  Until then, we can speculate till the cows come home if the skill trees are big advantage. 

Ive done the testing. Its not anywhere near what you say. Yes a character with the equivalent of 3 years of training will poorly made socks on a brand new player in basics. But the difference between 1 year and 6 months is minimal.  Yes there is a catch up time, but the developers have already acknowledge this exists and want to help new players not feel worthless once the game has matured. 

It is people like you and Krakken that keep trying to minimize the impact of the skill trees and this has to be happening for a reason.  If the skills were a nothing burger you would be in another thread. 

Its people like you that have no idea what you're talking about. Why do you think I'm in this thread? 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Talizar said:

They are running a business to make money.  If the in game mechanics do not allow for  some type of catch up mechanic then you are faced with no new players and players leaving.  How is that a sustainable business model?  They better care.

Well this is for me something that can be dealt with like 6 months after launch or so. You can make it like in WoW where you buy the game and get a free character upgrade, this could be like xy skill points you get for free and can spent where you want, i don`t see this as a huge deal or incredible difficult to implement.

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As stated by other posters on this thread, ACE will make sure that new players are able to catch up and participate without feeling worthless. So at this point, you either trust ACE to do that or you don't. If you are here to argue that the game at this very point is not balanced for new-players, your argument is going to fall on deaf ears because as ACE has also stated, they are not interested in balancing the game right now, they are interested in developing the content and mechanics and debugging all of that.

I'm not trying to dismiss anybody's argument, all I am saying is that it may be more constructive to wait and see what solution CrowFall decides to implement, and at that point provide feedback.


I'm here to help test, give feedback, report bugs, and have fun. I'm also looking for a guild to call home. I am a casual player, interested in participating in PvP, Gathering, and Crafting.

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It´s not only bad for new players. It´s bad for day one players and for the devs as well. Such a static skill system doesn´t allow balancing changes or additions. So what do they want to sell us after the final first release?

Even if ACE gives us free reskill coupons with each balancing patch or expansion - do you really want to reclick a whole evening? Me not. A skill system should be modular in a way that you don´t have to reskill it all to fix a minor flaw. And it shouldn´t be necessary to skill useless stuff to get the skills you want. 

My suggestion: Let Crowfall be the longterm MOBA with eternal sidepath it is. It´s the only game in that niche and wouldn´t have to compete with major league MMOs like WoW/GW2/BDO/TESO. 
Do the timebased skillsystem per campaign and handle the eternal kingdom as an eternal campaign where new players get all the points up from day one. 

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ACE decided to have forums for feedback.  It they did not want these discussions why would they have bothered?  To sit back and say nothing and hope for the best at launch seems odd for a group of people that paid to be part of the process.  We all have opinions and I hope that mine count as much as every other backer.

You only get one shot at a first impression.  I would like to see the game be very successful like everyone else.   I do not distrust that they plan to have a catch up mechanic.

Some have concerns with the system that we have now with the trees, while others are very supportive of it.  I can only give feedback on what we have now and that is what I will do.

I fully understand that many things will change before launch. 

 

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4 hours ago, Shnoo said:

My suggestion: Let Crowfall be the longterm MOBA with eternal sidepath it is. It´s the only game in that niche and wouldn´t have to compete with major league MMOs like WoW/GW2/BDO/TESO. 

 

Isn't this what Albion is essentially? 

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The most important thing is that the game can maintain a large/active population. If these ideas bring and keep more players it will help the game much more than it may harm it. Games like this need population or it will be boring.

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 1:20 PM, Arcadi said:

I talked about that in my original post:

"The book system is basically just a way for people to spend real money for multiple accounts and use them to create books to sell to other players for in game gold/gear and while that satisfies some players need to spend real money to get in-game items, it does very little to satisfy new players (who also don't have in-game items or gold) desire to be competitive."

The tomb system is great for existing players who want to use real money to get in-game stuff.  It's much less useful for actual new players.

 

And the game still has progression.  You win campaigns and get relics and artifacts for your EK.  The skill system isn't the progression for this game.  It's relics and artifacts, same as it's always been.

How about....no! Your suggestion is the same system/variation used in other, tired games. There's already a max on skill trees. New players can catch up. It'll just take time. Stop trying to make new, awesome games, carbon copies or imitations of archaic game systems. skill points is tired. I for one am sick of games always focused around points and "builds". Boasting of being classless and you can do whatever you want, but then throw points in there that create "metas" that ruin the whole bloody point. 

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17 hours ago, Jubenei said:

I don`t get why you get so angry about it. You have already an account and are going to play from the beginning so why do you need a catch up mechanic?

 

I want this game to have a healthy population.  That is the single most important thing for its success.  It is not a themepark or single-player game where it doesn't depend on other humans to be interesting or entertaining.  This is shaping into a really interesting game.  But you can't play it without people.  People will quit.  Real life will happen.  You need to get new players into the game to replace them or it's just going to fall on its face.

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1 hour ago, MJayed said:

The most important thing is that the game can maintain a large/active population. If these ideas bring and keep more players it will help the game much more than it may harm it. Games like this need population or it will be boring.

Exactly.  Agree 100%.  Wish I didn't waste so many words trying to say the same thing.  Well put.

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The game is going to need more coming in than leaving or at least equal to keep the game healthy.  I hope they have a really good marketing plan in the works.

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While they hopefully build upon the tome concept and straight copy some of what EVE has done in this area, I find it hard to not see the entire system built with ACE's profits in mind and not to the benefit of players.

Sell items in the store that can be traded for Tomes in-game = $

Alt Accounts training/storing/selling Tomes = $

VIP allowing us to train more, store more, trade more = $

Sell Tomes in the store = $ (not yet, but magic 8 ball says "outlook good"

New players that don't have friends already established and or cash to spend will likely struggle to "catch up" in any particular area and by the time they do, others will have moved on to other areas allowing them more options in comparison.

Maybe they'll figure out how to balance it so "new" accounts receive more benefit from Tomes than "old" accounts and limit how often Tomes/training can be applied, but that's wishful thinking at this point.

To me this is just a waste of time/resources that a more horizontal system could have avoided completely or to some degree. Vertical/linear power gains, especially easymode passive training, is more trouble than it's worth to me. If it was about options instead of gated access to recipes/power, catching up wouldn't be such a big deal. Unfortunately the entire game is built with the same tired gotta get the purplez! cause more stats! design. But it's a Sandbox...

Edited by APE

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