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Scorn

This week I RPd a Factory

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Step 1 Get Mats prep0.png
Step 2 Turn Mats into ComponentsFinal_Prep.png
Step 3 Turn Components into Armor
Armor.png

So Crowfall is a Sandbox game so often the content that is there needs to be created/provided by the players. I decided to give myself a 'Quest' if you will...
Make 50 sets of Metal Armor (15 Mail, 35 Plate) 
This was something for me to do, keep me busy and focused and just for kicks...
combined with the fact that Skill Training would be reaching abilities to make Armor Layers and Treated Steel.
All the Crafting/Harvesting I did could be done with 2 accounts (I used more for bulk bank space)

I was donated Meat and some Dust(For which I am grateful) but these could be farmed with a few extra hours Harvest.

I also bought more materials than I needed (I originally planned on making 100 sets and forgot to change some of my math when getting Mats)
I used ~105% Materials due to some Flawed Assemblies
*Hopefully my math isn't too far gone with getting lost in the process, if it is so be it

*Times have been rounded up to the nearest 1/2 hour
This was done over 5 days with an average playtime of 4-5hours a day for this project

6hours: Farm Gold ~80,000
1 hour : Purchase and Organize Materials
1/2 hour : Craft 1500 Coal(900 Wood-600 Dust) (300 crafts)
1/2 Craft 500 Carbon (300 Meat and 200 Dust) (100  crafts)
1 hour : Craft 200 Lacing Sinew (120 Meat 80Dust) AND Craft 200 Leather Padding (200 Lacing Sinew 1200 Hide) (400 crafts)
1/2 hour Craft 90 Metal Scales (1620 Ore 270 Coal) (90  crafts with Experiment) 
2 hours Craft 210 Metal Plates (3780 Ore 630 Coal) (210 crafts with Experiment)
1 hour Craft 200 Treated Steel (1200 IronOre 400 Carbon) (200crafts with Experiment)
2 hours Craft 450 Armor Layers (2700Ore, 900 Hide, 900 Stone 450 Dust)
2 hour Craft 150 Metal Rings/Sheets (3300 Ore, 450 Coal 450 Armor Layers) (150 crafts with Experiment)
3 hours Craft 150 'Fillers' *Helm, Boots, Gloves* (90 Metal Scales, 210 Metal Plates 150 Treated Steel 150 Leather Padding 900 Dust) (150 Long combines)
2 hour Craft 50 Breastplates (150 Metal Rings/Sheets 50 Treated Steel 50 Leather Padding 600 Dust) (50 Long combines)

Total Time Spent 20hours 
Total Gold used    74,250 
Total Ore used       12,600
Total Hide used       2100
Total Stone used       900
Total Wood used       900



Total Meat used        420
Total Dust used      2830


I didn't get too many Flawed Assemblies so that didn't bother me,
and it wasn't the time it took crafting that got to me either (though sitting for a minute watching the final cook isn't great)
The Failed Experiments were really frustrating, I understand with Higher trained skills this will happen less but still

I am really looking forward to BluePrints and Factories when things can hopefully Stack up on top of Clone Copies of themselves and not use so much Bank space!

Are-You-Not-Entertained-Gladiator.gif

Final Thoughts: This was mainly to show how silly the vendor purchased resources are IMO.

HOWEVER it was also a learning experience and I believe that if the prices are adjusted that there is no reason to not keep Vendors in
 AS LONG as their Prices are high enough so that Harvesters can get more from directly Harvesting a Node rather than Farming Monsters for Gold.
Currently at 4.5 per piece it is too cheap (though not too far off) 10 would be Ideal for Whites, I can see the Potential to even allow Greens or Blues for 10/30x more

Harvesters must expose themselves in the world for longer, must change RuneTools and Disciplines (which makes them weaker in Combat) and change their location.
Gold spenders do not

It takes Export slots to get these out of a Campaign to an EK, or risk Crafting in the Campaign itself.
Also, buying mats from a vendor will not get you any  Ethereal Dust while actual Harvesting will.

Edited by Scorn

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I'm not a fan of the buying of resources, it keeps people out of the world by giving them a more efficient way to get what they want. It works right now in the state of the game we are in but I sure hope it isn't there when this thing kicks off. A lot of damn work Scorn.

 

Edited by Spawl

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3 hours ago, Spawl said:

I'm not a fan of the buying of resources, it keeps people out of the world by giving them a more efficient way to get what they want. It works right now in the state of the game we are in but I sure hope it isn't there when this thing kicks off. A lot of damn work Scorn.

 

I would agree with the second part of that.

 

However, buying Resources and the ability to do so has nothing to do with keeping people outside of the world.

This is due to the Spirit Bank and sheer vast amount of Exports available to us right now as well as the ability to Craft in Eternal Kingdoms...nothing to do with buying Resources from Vendors (who are only in the Campaigns)

 

This is an issue I take big issue with in regards to CF. The Campaigns are dead because there is no reason to Craft in Campaigns...which means you don't need to protect the areas where your Crafters need to be to Craft (Forts and Keeps) 

 

With resources as easy as they are to acquire in the game's current state (especially with the vendors) I honestly struggle to figure out why this game is not FULL LOOT.

Edited by Scorn

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4 hours ago, Scorn said:

I would agree with the second part of that.

 

However, buying Resources and the ability to do so has nothing to do with keeping people outside of the world.

This is due to the Spirit Bank and sheer vast amount of Exports available to us right now as well as the ability to Craft in Eternal Kingdoms...nothing to do with buying Resources from Vendors (who are only in the Campaigns)

 

This is an issue I take big issue with in regards to CF. The Campaigns are dead because there is no reason to Craft in Campaigns...which means you don't need to protect the areas where your Crafters need to be to Craft (Forts and Keeps) 

 

With resources as easy as they are to acquire in the game's current state (especially with the vendors) I honestly struggle to figure out why this game is not FULL LOOT.

If we were able to set up venders in the campaign world at some stage it would be nice tbh so were able to sell and stay in the campaign world instead of disconnecting to the EK for crafting
Village parcels or even parcels in the beachhead where anyone can drop a house/vendor would go a long imo probaly wanna limit houses to 1 per person or something though in these parcels

Edited by veeshan

Veeshan Midst of UXA

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Just want to point out something about the numbers above, and the comments about the NPC vendors, harvesters and some old spreadsheet math Blair provided about the harvesting resource numbers.

On 6/5/2017 at 5:02 PM, thomasblair said:

Now Lets look at the data so we can examine if we think there is a bug, or if we just don't like the data.

Here are the r9 copper loot tables:

 

75%, 50%, 25% Hit Tables                    
Treasure Table Name Table 1 Chance Table 2 Chance Table 3 Chance Table 4 Chance Table 5 Chance
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 1 1 white copper 50                
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 2 1-2 white copper 100                
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 3 1-2 white copper 100 ethereal dust 75            
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 4 1-2 white copper 100 1 green copper 4 ethereal dust 75        
rank 9 copper damaged plentiful 5 1-2 white copper 100 1 green copper 5 1 blue copper 3 ethereal dust 75    
                     
0% Hit Table                    
Treasure Table Name Table 1 Chance Table 2 Chance Table 3 Chance Table 4 Chance Table 5 Chance
rank 9 copper final plentiful 1 1 white copper 100 ethereal dust 50            
rank 9 copper final plentiful 2 1 green copper 100 1 green copper 25 ethereal dust 100        
rank 9 copper final plentiful 3 1 green copper 100 1 green copper 50 1 green copper 25 ethereal dust 100    
rank 9 copper final plentiful 4 1 green copper 100 1 green copper 75 1 blue copper 25 ethereal dust 100    
rank 9 copper final plentiful 5 1 green copper 100 1 green copper 100 1 blue copper 50 1 epic copper 35 ethereal dust 100
                     
0% Critical Table (this table is rolled in addition to the 0% hit table)                  
Item Table Name Item 1 Chance Item 2 Chance Item 3 Chance Item 4 Chance Table 5 Chance
rank 9 copper critical (this table is rolled 1x) 1 green copper 15 1 blue copper 55 1 epic copper 28 1 leg copper 2    

Each table on a row is rolled independently of the other tables results. So plentiful 5 on an r9 for the final (0%) hit could give 2 green, 1 blue, 1 epic, and some dust in addition to a roll for a bonus if a crit was scored. Bonus table is rolled once per players critical amount value. Again this item table is rolled 1 time, it produces 1 extra item per hit. (unless your crit amount stat is higher)

Generally the "damaged" (75, 50, 25) stages give white quality resources with a very small chance of higher quality bonus drops. 5% / 3% may seem small, but these would be in addition to the white drops if they do hit. Not to mention on a single node they both get rolled 3 times.

The final hit table is where all the color lives, in addition to the potential for a critical. You can see why the critical/critical amount stats are so important.

 

Taking just all the white resources used, there was a total of 16,500 with resources of various types.  I'm going to ignore the dust and meat.

From the above spreadsheet, the maximal amount of materials available (all chances  = 100% when some are as low as 2%)  to be harvested from a single node is  (4X3)+(4X1)+(4X (Harvest Critical Amount) value(5 cap I think).

That turns into a maximum resource cap per on a tier 9 node of 45, of all colors.

Switching to actual percentages, they total to (108% X 3)+ (285% X 1) + (100% X 5) = 1109% or 11 ore on average.

I'm treating all colors as white for the purposes of comparison below for the purposes of discovering the harvesting time required for the same volume of material.   

Converted to the current NPC/gold cost, (4.5GP each)  that means a single tier 9 node struck by a maximally trained player is worth on average  54GP (4.5X12)

When anyone without training can solo slay a tier 9 creature and have it drop anywhere from 180-250 GP,  the disparity is pretty obvious.

I just did a quick thumb test on ore node harvesting, (10 samples) and with a pick that does 71 damage to a small node, it takes very close to 30 seconds per node to harvest.  That's a small node, with full stamina charged, using the active harvesting, and no walking time between nodes.  

Using the above averages, it would take a fully trained, equipped harvester duo with a group leader, 1,375 nodes to make the equivalent progress. At 15 seconds per node (half because of two players, that would be 5.72 hours of node whacking, each, for a total human time contribution of 11 and a half hours. That is not including time for walking between nodes, or crafting/managing tools, etc etc etc.

So the effort for harvesting materials like Ore vs just gold with no skinning, is in my estimation currently at least  3-1 in favor of gathering gold, but probably closer to 5-1 if you factor in all the time doing the activity, and not hitting nodes.

Personal opinion. 

Given the above math and time commitments necessary, I would rather see the harvesting volumes adjusted to exceed the current effectiveness of gold, than to increase the cost of mat's on NPC vendors.  They can fiddle the price on the vendors to make quicker tests than adjusting all the tables, but in the big picture I think the economy is healthier, and the willingness of player to engage in combat and lose things is higher, if things are more "easy come/easy go".

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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That is a whole lot of crappy gear scorn... what 4 pips and 20 something assy and exp?   I didn't take all of my crafting to final recipe node and have just gotten to 40 assy and exp with 8 pips and I still cannot make top end white...  (10 pips and 70+ assy/exp).

But you get the crafter of the month award in my book...   


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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11 minutes ago, Frykka said:

That is a whole lot of crappy gear scorn... what 4 pips and 20 something assy and exp?   I didn't take all of my crafting to final recipe node and have just gotten to 40 assy and exp with 8 pips and I still cannot make top end white...  (10 pips and 70+ assy/exp).

But you get the crafter of the month award in my book...   

That has been one really good thing about the NPC resource vendors. 

At no point did I feel it was a waste to build something white NOW for today or a couple of days, rather than wait until I could maximise the use of the resources. This is obviously not true of green+, but for whites, it's better to have something, and use it to get more resources so you can upgrade when training improves, than to wait it out.

The old volumes however, every scrap felt like it was worth maximizing, and not taking risks with.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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As someone who has limited time too play, probably about 4 hours a week, I really like the resource vendor. Uping the cost would just mean I have to spend more time farming to get some whites, which I’m not a fan of. The simple solution to this is to only allow people to buy a certain amount of resources per week, enough to make say 1-2 sets of armor and weapons. This would allow the resource vendors to play their part without being exploited for profit. 

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3 hours ago, Glory said:

As someone who has limited time too play, probably about 4 hours a week, I really like the resource vendor. Uping the cost would just mean I have to spend more time farming to get some whites, which I’m not a fan of. The simple solution to this is to only allow people to buy a certain amount of resources per week, enough to make say 1-2 sets of armor and weapons. This would allow the resource vendors to play their part without being exploited for profit. 

Player would harvest and sell resources if there wasnt a vendor


Veeshan Midst of UXA

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On 8/31/2018 at 10:01 PM, Scorn said:

However, buying Resources and the ability to do so has nothing to do with keeping people outside of the world.

This is due to the Spirit Bank and sheer vast amount of Exports available to us right now as well as the ability to Craft in Eternal Kingdoms...nothing to do with buying Resources from Vendors (who are only in the Campaigns)

People are spending less time harvesting resources because it is faster and exponentially more effective to buy the materials with gold. I wasn't even worried about the spirit bank in my statement as that has been a constant and will be different in 5.8 with real win conditions, if they implement a restricted spirit bank. Maybe all this will change when the next campaign starts with Spring resources and everyone out trying to get color, but if that happens, I think it further validates my point. There are fewer people out in the world in 5.7 because they don't have to be and that is because of the efficiency provided by the vendors.

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