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Zatch

Duelist 5.7 Feedback

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I've played the Duelist for a few patches now, and would to submit feedback on the design of the class.

Weapon Specific Class Feedback:

Rapier - Toothpick Duelist is in a fairly good spot and has an interesting start point for its design.  The only real issue I have with Rapier is the lack of melee abilities the class has available. Discs could remedy this issue, but currently Duelists have the least amount of damage discs (Knife Grinder, Poisoner, Blade Master, etc) available to it. I  see no reason these shouldn't be usable, and they would be a quick way to add more options to the class.

Pistols - Pistol Duelist feels insanely strong on an exposed target to the point it’s ludicrous. Combining this damage with the the Rapid Fire knockdown, and you get a range class with insane damage and high cc. This correlates into a dull experience for both the Duelist and enemy. To counter this I would change the expose duration on a target to 5 seconds, but give pistols an ability to apply expose out-of-stealth with a longish cool down.

General Duelist Feedback:

I love the various combo point spenders the class has access too. Each feels like there is a viable use for it. Good job! Not much else to say, I really like what the base class brings to the table.

Dreams:

I would love to see a Duelist bomb ability where a Duelist can place a bomb at their feet and remotely detonate it.

Final Thoughts:

I love the class. It's so much fun weaving in and out of stealth, tunneling for extra mobility, chasing runners, etc. Duelist is super fun, and will only get better.

 

TLDR Expose knockdown sucks and add more combat disciplines.

Edited by Zatch

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My main problem with the expose-punish mechanic is that the abilities that most easily proc it (Rapid Fire for Ranger/Duelist) have too short a CD - the rest are fine, if a little hard to pull off.

Avoiding the use of abilities during a channelled expose-punish like Rapid Fire is a skill that players can and should learn, but it's debilitating and not particularly fun if it's happening for 2 of every 9 seconds (and that's just per Ranger/Pistol duelist - grab yourself 4 rangers and you can ensure that your chosen target is unable to play Crowfall /s).

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I played some pistol duelist over the weekend. First time in a long time playing Duelist. 

  • I noticed that it's very fast in and out of stealth now. Before you had to wait on burrow animation. Now it's equally as fast as the assassin stealth. 
  • Still getting stuck in place sometimes after using the ultimate but not all the time like it used to be. 
  • Plaguelord + Pistol Duelist is insane the amount of CC you can put out. Flintlock shot knockdown, rapid fire knockdown, and pepperbox shot stun. Fun to play but I imagine extremely annoying to play against. 
  • Pistol Duelist lacks a reliable opener like the ambush that rapier duelists get. It makes opening up on someone from stealth feel kind of clunky, IMO. It would be nice if master of pistols granted some kind of opening shot for the stealth tray. Doesn't have to be particularly good or powerful but just something to make it feel more fluid to automatically swap to combat tray. It used to be that you could LMB from stealth tray and it would automatically put you in combat tray but that wasn't working for me this weekend so I was having to manually swap out of stealth tray into combat tray which felt clunky. 

I wonder if the expose mechanic should be something that rogues (including rangers) can apply while in combat but once someone is expose punished then it consumes the expose debuff. 

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On 9/5/2018 at 8:32 AM, blazzen said:

I played some pistol duelist over the weekend. First time in a long time playing Duelist. 

  • I noticed that it's very fast in and out of stealth now. Before you had to wait on burrow animation. Now it's equally as fast as the assassin stealth. 
  • Still getting stuck in place sometimes after using the ultimate but not all the time like it used to be. 
  • Plaguelord + Pistol Duelist is insane the amount of CC you can put out. Flintlock shot knockdown, rapid fire knockdown, and pepperbox shot stun. Fun to play but I imagine extremely annoying to play against. 
  • Pistol Duelist lacks a reliable opener like the ambush that rapier duelists get. It makes opening up on someone from stealth feel kind of clunky, IMO. It would be nice if master of pistols granted some kind of opening shot for the stealth tray. Doesn't have to be particularly good or powerful but just something to make it feel more fluid to automatically swap to combat tray. It used to be that you could LMB from stealth tray and it would automatically put you in combat tray but that wasn't working for me this weekend so I was having to manually swap out of stealth tray into combat tray which felt clunky. 

I wonder if the expose mechanic should be something that rogues (including rangers) can apply while in combat but once someone is expose punished then it consumes the expose debuff. 

The Duelists ability to jump in and out of stealth is all the class has in terms of mobility. Without the ability to tunnel Duelists are the easiest class in the game to 100-0 in my experience. Tunnels cooldown probably could use a nerf (and tie it into power efficiency), but to make stealth harder to enter would make rapier Duelist unplayable in group fights. Stealth detection in general is in a difficult place because of the small group size. It's hard to get every group of five people to have either a ranger or mole hunter in the group. 

I may upload a video of me fighting Endless on pistol duelist. I took him from 100% to 50 where he didn't even get a chance to move. 

An opener for pistols is probably needed, I always just jump into combat tray from stealth I never felt like it was an inconvenience, but it would be fitting for the class to have some form of opener.  

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+1 for @blazzen 's expose proposal. Would be nice if it had a stacking effect. Maybe let abilities like recon ray give a few stacks rather than one with a moderate duration, while each CC reduced the stack. Additionally, if the duration was different based on the source of application then it could be made more dynamic, in effect any in combat applications could offer a smaller window before the debuff fell off, giving a tell to the recipient that they will be vulnerable for the next few seconds or X triggered expose punishments. Additionally, dodges should be more impactful and less about pure positioning. Like dropping a stack if you dodge during an execution of expose punishing ability. Might be a heavy lift but it would definitely make for a more compelling expose mechanic.

In another thread I recommended adding expose to Impale's 5-point combo since it only works as a quick 100-50 finisher and loses luster as a finisher compared to the final stun on pepperbox shot (though impale's initial damage is much higher overall).

I would agree that Rapier does feel a bit light on the melee abilities. It would be interesting to see more effects tied to the dodge mechanic, maybe only as part of its weapon discipline, like melee abilities that briefly morph on dodge similar to triggering an ability chain.

I also don't think pistol was intended to be a subtle weapon, as evidenced by Go For Broke, so a specific opener for pistol should not be "assassiny" persae if it were to have one. Maybe a pistol whip stun or CD delay, that works with pistol even when equipped only in OH would be a comprimise between the existing balance for Duelist variants. Otherwise, LMB to pistol out of stealth more seamlessly would be a reasonable fix.

Edited by Lightsig

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1 hour ago, ComradeAma said:

While stacks are definitely better combat mechanic, please notice that it has negative effect on server performance. 

Agree. anything that stacks will hurt performance, leave this mechanic in slower paced mmo's 

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I play GW2 and it far exceeds the current pace of combat in Crowfall while nearly every boon and condition functions as part of stack based system. Not saying that it doesn't come with a hit to performance, but to say it would be so detrimental to the point that it can only exist in slower paced games is unfounded. Crowfall is no where near optimized so it might be premature to say which designs won't fit considering the devs aren't putting all effort polishing that part of gameplelay just yet.

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