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Kirchhoff

Templar Commentary - Fundamental Design

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Putting balance aside for now, I want to talk about how the Templar fits into Crowfall’s combat.  I will touch on three areas – Design/Role, Skills, Customization – and contrast the good with the bad; identifying what makes this class fun.

Most of this feedback is directed toward ACE, with an emphasis on design philosophy and achieving “fun”.  Feel free to contribute to that goal.  Let’s try to avoid “in 5.7 Templar is so weak, buff plz”.  Tell us what you like about the Templar; what really makes the class fun?   

DESIGN/SKILLS

Originally designed as a tank with an area-control theme, the Templar certainly has a place in Crowfall’s large scale fights centered around defending and capturing specific points of interest.  Many of the skills that form the “core” of the Templar are tailored made for that.  However, there are a number of other skills that spark your imagination to see other possibilities as well.  But first, what is the core functionality of how the Templar is supposed to work?

In the most basic terms, the Templar uses their LMB attacks to generate PIPs to be spent on more powerful abilities; very similar to combo points.  There are some skills that also generate PIPs (more on that later).  While the theory is fine and is used for similar classes in other games with great success (WoW Paladin), it fails to deliver in Crowfall for a few simple reasons:

  1. You generate too few PIPs per time spent using LMB.  This is compounded by the need to be in melee to even generate PIPs and the burden of only the 3rd attack generating PIPs.  Devotion feels like a band-aid in this area (healing is a separate discussion).
  2. Most skills that spend PIPs don’t even feel strong enough to use.  As a point of reference, most discipline skills do way more damage and cost 0 PIPs.

Essentially, this amounts to the Templar’s resource system being completely ignored.  This is, in part, due to the silly PIP generation of Divine Light.  In a large group fight (which the Templar is designed for), every pulse of Divine Light can give you full PIPs.  You literally cannot even get close to spending them as fast as you get them.  Nor would you want to, because you should be holding RMB and spamming E like a good little Templar.  Which leads me to the over-arching conclusion of the Templar: One Trick Pony.  If your enemies are not standing in your Divine Light and triggering your Parry, then the Templar is neither effective or fun to play.

SKILLS

Great Swing 1 – Great Swing 2 – Great Swing 3
As above, the biggest problem is all the PIP generation taking place on the 3rd swing.
(Suggestion: Each attack generates a PIP and then the spenders cost more PIPs to start the chain, but subsequent attacks in the chain are free.)

Censure
The biggest problem is how buggy this is.  I would much prefer the vertical “jumping” element be removed in favor of a more standard “charge” implementation.  Some other ideas could be to do something similar to GW2’s Warrior “spinning dash” skill.
(Suggestion: Some way to customize our build and give this skill 2 uses – like racial dodges – would be fun)

Reproach - Castigate – Radiant Sweep/Righteous Smash
Long and slow.  This combo sees limited use because skill 1 & 2 stink (a lot) and people need to be not paying attention to be hit by the third one.  Radiant Sweep is obviously really strong, but Righteous Smash is lacking.  The damage is weak and the resource generation is borderline useless (see DESIGN comments above).
(Suggestion: Give the first 2 skills of this combo more damage or some other reason to be used, then buff the damage on Righteous Smash by a good amount.)

Judgement – Execute
Perfect.  Unique, powerful in the right circumstances, and fun.  Some of the most fun I have playing Templar is using this skill.

Divine Light
Very strong skill, really fits the Templar design and role.  The PIP cost/generation mechanic needs to be overhauled.  A single 2 PIP upfront cost and no additional cost/gain would be appropriate.  Should be Holy Damage.
(Suggestion: Would really like to see some build customization around causing some effect to enemies that either enter or exit your Divine Light, choose to have it follow your character, or cause other skills to be more powerful while in your own Divine Light)

Devotion
Really great skill.  The best element being that you heal based on the damage you do.  Very fun dynamic.  The “Sin” dynamic needs to be looked at again as there is no synergy with other skills.
(Suggestion: Emphasize this as the healing option in damage oriented builds and Divine Light stronger in supportive builds; base values/scaling need to be looked at to make that happen.)

Holy Warrior
Although I don’t think it works, the theory of this skill is great.  Allows Templar to cut through heavy mitigation classes/builds/buffs in a way that others cannot.  However, it feels like this should be an ultimate for offensive builds.

Righteous Stand – Righteous Parry
While this is supposed to be a class defining ability, it is simply too strong.  It is the primary source of damage and crowd control.  A re-design that gives the Parry a cooldown and removes the knockdown is probably warranted.

Retaliate
Uninspiring.  Low damage, nothing unique (sin reduces cooldown is useless with stamina change).  Also devalued because we currently spend a lot of the time holding RMB and therefore avoiding CC (especially true when it was bugged).
(Suggestion: Have it additionally do damage and reflect the CC back to the player who placed it on you.  Would allow some additional tools against ranged classes.)

Brilliance
Generic.  No real synergy with anything.  Should at least be holy damage, but something more impactful should be explored.

CUSTOMIZATION

There are many solution-oriented comments sprinkled throughout the Skills commentary above.  But to define the problem, we lack the ability to customize our characters to a degree that can, in any meaningful or successful way, change our role. 

This is a more striking weakness on the Templar because of the complete lack of a ranged option (which I think is fine).  The only real Disciplines in the game that help versus ranged attacks are the ones that give you ranged attacks yourself.  It is almost a “if you can’t beat them – join them” philosophy.  (Not counting the silly, cancerous “reflect” or “immune” to some specific damage type Disciplines.)

Additionally, replacing your Templar skills with discipline ones makes you feel like “not a Templar” instead of a “different Templar”.  That is obviously a larger game issue but seems exaggerated in the Templar.

I would love to see a new take on a WoW-like talent system where you have to make choices, and everything seems powerful, but perhaps in different roles or circumstances.

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Posted (edited)
On 9/6/2018 at 10:42 AM, Kirchhoff said:

Divine Light
Very strong skill, really fits the Templar design and role.  The PIP cost/generation mechanic needs to be overhauled.  A single 2 PIP upfront cost and no additional cost/gain would be appropriate.  Should be Holy Damage.
(Suggestion: Would really like to see some build customization around causing some effect to enemies that either enter or exit your Divine Light, choose to have it follow your character, or cause other skills to be more powerful while in your own Divine Light)

If there was any templar build that made it an aura that radiates from the caster I'd probably go that build of templar and never play anything else. I love the templar, it's flavor, it's role, it's general abilities, and it's a beast of a class in the right situation but it's biggest weakness is it loses a lot of it's power when your enemies simply step outside your divine light.

Maybe since that would be so powerful make it a major discipline called fanatic that empowers divine light and devotion at the cost of nerfing your parry. Could be good for either a paladin or DPS templar since you would be trading parry survivability for the ability to heal yourself and deal damage more effectively if you're just balls to the wall 100% aggressive 100% of the time.

That being said I'm fine with it not being holy damage inherently. It becomes holy damage when you pop holy warrior.

I'd also just settle for sharpshooter not being banned to templar, scaling off the same stats as templar melee damage, and generating pips. Perfectly fine with being a less mobile class if I can just start flinging arrows if they won't engage me in melee.

As it is I may still eventually roll templar main but I'm reluctant to do so given how powerful the cleric is. It feels like a main tank with a bit of healing thrown in. And since damage isn't as important I'm perfectly fine to let people step outside my circles while I stand in healing up, and even able to apply my weak damage via hammers a short way out. It's just so much less counterable than a templar especially given the probability rangers will become more powerful in the next meta and rangers with good DPS would be a pretty hard counter to stationary circle relient templars.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Posted (edited)
On 9/6/2018 at 12:42 PM, Kirchhoff said:

If your enemies are not standing in your Divine Light and triggering your Parry, then the Templar is neither effective or fun to play.

strongly disagree. This is way too narrow-minded and way too many Templar players have this mind-set. Is Templar really strong in situations where you can get away doing this? Yes. But are there multiple play-styles for the class to be effective? Yes.

I really don't know why people think Templar is useless outside of Divine Light. I've been playing Templar in open-world with no problems what so ever when it comes to pip generation or pip starvation. Get creative with your builds and playstyles. Templar can be more than DL and parry spam, they are actually quite flexible in the roles they can play. Too often I see Templars in open spaces just randomly dropping DL off CD wherever they stand and then complain they are useless. Change your playstyle.

I think Templar is really well designed in that it is really flexible in play-style but it's abilities allow for really awesome moments of glory, like in keep sieges. 

What I do agree with is Brilliance being uninspired and Holy Warrior should be moved into Vindicator imo. I also think that the parry spam needs to go, shouldn't do as much damage as it does but I think the KD should stay. It should reward smart use, parrying at the perfect time to line up a big CC on a kill target or a group of front-liners. 

 

Edited by Jjusticar

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Which spec of Templar is this about?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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