OmikronNomadsoul

More XP - Pets - Chests - Tutorial

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Greetings,

I've been playing the game and it has been a great time for me! I have some suggestions about XP, pets, chests and tutorials, though.

When fighting the enemies I think we gain a little less XP than necessary - I thought it would be good to gain more XP with enemies because leveling up is a little too much slow and it could make gamers give up the game in the beginning.

I think we could gain XP while doing our collecting of wood, rocks and minerals. It could make the play time more fun and enjoyable.

Another thing I think could be useful is adding pets like companies of the players - the players could find the pet while playing and exploring the game world (maybe capturing the pets while playing) and the pets could evolving together with the players. The pets could have equipment too and getting stronger with that - maybe the pets could be sold too, but with special coins through official store of Crowfall.

About chests - I like the idea of chests with items, but I think it could be better with another items and not only fruits - I was thinking about equipment - armors and weapons.

I really liked playing the game these days, but the beginning was very hard - the tutorial wasn't clear enough for me - I think it's necessary to explain better the differences between campaign and eternal world and make more basic tutorials about the mechanics of the game. I'm not a native English speaker so maybe the problem is because of that, but I think a more detailed tutorial in-site and in-game could help the players to play the game.

 

 

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Pets are planned. They will be combat pets, so I doubt you'll see them sold in the store, unless they just sell the skins. 

Chests won't have weapons or armor, as it would reduce demand for crafted gear, and thus hurt the economy. 

Tutorials and more overall player direction are coming. Tutorials are usually the last thing added to a game, as it makes little sense to provide tutorials for game systems that may change. 

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1 hour ago, Arkade said:

Chests won't have weapons or armor, as it would reduce demand for crafted gear, and thus hurt the economy. 

Still unclear how Scavenging will impact this philosophy, directly or indirectly.

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2 hours ago, OmikronNomadsoul said:

I really liked playing the game these days, but the beginning was very hard - the tutorial wasn't clear enough for me - I think it's necessary to explain better the differences between campaign and eternal world and make more basic tutorials about the mechanics of the game. I'm not a native English speaker so maybe the problem is because of that, but I think a more detailed tutorial in-site and in-game could help the players to play the game.

 

Well known issue.

 

On 2/2/2018 at 9:48 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

This is not surprising, given that we haven't built a new player experience yet.

new player experience is typically the LAST thing that you work on, because it's heavily scripted and (as a result) incredibly fragile.  whenever you make a change to any system, any balance table, any user interface -- even moving a button -- the damn thing breaks.  because it's so custom crafted.

Doing it early in the development process, when everything is in flux, means that you spend an inordinate of time fixing it every. single. time. you put up a new version.

Better to just put it off until things are settled (i.e. do it last.)  It does mean that many (most?) incoming players have no clue how systems work, but that's the lesser of the two evils. Development velocity is paramount.

Todd

 

 

On 2/2/2018 at 3:14 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

I would love to quote this answer to the plethora of players that complain about the new player experience. 

Lord knows I've bitched enough about it, and it's importance, along the way.  I sometimes lose sight of the fact that there must be a time budget built in for systems needed to support that experience, and keep mentally trying to imagine how the current model can be adjusted to accommodate a more entertaining start.

So just how LAST is it?  Is it LAST right before Beta, or LAST right before initial launch?

 

 

On 2/5/2018 at 8:30 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

yes, you can quote it.

Last meaning "I will put it off as long as we can, to give the systems under it the maximum amount of time to solidify".  I wouldn't even be shocked if we put a draft version in at soft launch, then change it completely in the period between soft launch and hard launch (i.e. once we run enough players through it to get a statistical bead on how effective it is.)  

Todd

 

Cheers

 

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2 hours ago, Arkade said:

 

Chests won't have weapons or armor, as it would reduce demand for crafted gear, and thus hurt the economy. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lightsig said:

Still unclear how Scavenging will impact this philosophy, directly or indirectly.

One of the issues is, how do you take a set of gear from no experimentation rolls, to full experimentation?.  It's hard, and yes that would impact the crafters.

They do have intermediate gear, so any player can build the same sort of thing that should drop from mobs when you plan on the best stuff being player made.

I could see them adding intermediate gear drops, but even on NPC's that would mean doing things differently, because gear can't be looted (currently), and they may want to buff NPC's with pre-made gear types with set values not generally available to players.

Much better to just have NPC's carry gold you can use to buy stuff from players with, that trying to finagle all the sub-systems to have sub par gear drop as loot.

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3 hours ago, OmikronNomadsoul said:

When fighting the enemies I think we gain a little less XP than necessary - I thought it would be good to gain more XP with enemies because leveling up is a little too much slow and it could make gamers give up the game in the beginning.

I think we could gain XP while doing our collecting of wood, rocks and minerals. It could make the play time more fun and enjoyable.

Levels frankly have a very small effect compared to skills/gear/et al. There is a game mechanic that stresses sacrificing loot to the gods for XP on that vessel. Although it needs balancing and finishing, its only pre-alpha. getting xp for other activities is just a bonus really. I like idea of getting xp from mobs and harvesting alike.

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On 10/10/2018 at 12:01 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

 

One of the issues is, how do you take a set of gear from no experimentation rolls, to full experimentation?.  It's hard, and yes that would impact the crafters.

They do have intermediate gear, so any player can build the same sort of thing that should drop from mobs when you plan on the best stuff being player made.

I could see them adding intermediate gear drops, but even on NPC's that would mean doing things differently, because gear can't be looted (currently), and they may want to buff NPC's with pre-made gear types with set values not generally available to players.

Much better to just have NPC's carry gold you can use to buy stuff from players with, that trying to finagle all the sub-systems to have sub par gear drop as loot.

If I were to extrapolate a possible interaction with Scavenging and "chests" I would expect a similar interaction as other gathering skills in relation to node rank. Essentially, if whatever was in a chest can be picked up without any skill interaction then Scavenging wouldn't be interacting with the regular loot container, and instead would roll against the rank of that object/entity, similar to the system we have in place for hitting a node and having % chance to receive doobers of varying quality of the relative type/class. However, since these are expected to be whole items, or maybe even partially complete items (unusable) the chance of success would provide one item or nothing at all. If that were the case this would also be possible to apply to NPCs, or maybe just non-creature NPCs (but maybe boss NPCs? D? All of the above?). So actually, probably less like the node system and more like the wildcrafting they revealed a bit ago.

But m+y thoughts on the impact to crafters is that such a system should rely on crafters of varying professions to restore the unusable objects, requiring the input of comparable quality resources to the rank/rarity of the node, at a much reduced cost as compared to items made from scratch, and have it's quality capped, but rolled within those parameters (up to that possibly max quality) based on the crafters skill. Alternatively, crafters could just salvage these items for their materials based on their composite rank.

Edited by Lightsig
Wildcrafting, it will probably be like wildcrafting

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Just now, Lightsig said:

If I were to extrapolate a possible interaction with Scavenging and "chests" I would expect a similar interaction as other gathering skills in relation to node rank. Essentially, if whatever was in a chest can be picked up without any skill interaction then Scavenging wouldn't be interacting with the regular loot container, and instead would roll against the rank of that object/entity, similar to the system we have in place for hitting a node and having % chance to receive doobers of varying quality of the relative type/class. However, since these are expected to be whole items, or maybe even partially complete items (unusable) the chance of success would provide one item or nothing at all. If that were the case this would also be possible to apply other NPCs, but maybe just non-creature NPCs (or maybe boss NPCs? D? All of the above?).

My thoughts on the impact to crafters is that such a system should rely on crafters of varying professions to restore these objects, requiring the input of comparable quality resources, much reduced as compared to items made from scratch, and have it's quality capped, but scaled within those parameters based on the crafters skill. Alternatively, crafters could just salvage these items for their materials based on their composite rank.

That gap can be filled without needing to eliminate the crafter middle man with the nascent scroll system under development.

 

Imagine for example you don't get a shiny sword as loot, but rather a scroll that has the recipes for a shiny sword, with a built in +4 pip bonus of experimentation on all the components. If it had for example enough charges to have three full swords made if you counted all the sub components,  then using that item would involve a great deal of social interaction, trying to find the best crafter, and the best deal, to get the best final results.  Maybe that scroll would have a pre-built name and appearance change as well.

I would much rather loot drops end up being scrolls for items with charges and bonus values that get used by crafters, than simply kill monster, get stuff.  

That model has been done to death already.

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

That gap can be filled without needing to eliminate the crafter middle man with the nascent scroll system under development.

 

Imagine for example you don't get a shiny sword as loot, but rather a scroll that has the recipes for a shiny sword, with a built in +4 pip bonus of experimentation on all the components. If it had for example enough charges to have three full swords made if you counted all the sub components,  then using that item would involve a great deal of social interaction, trying to find the best crafter, and the best deal, to get the best final results.  Maybe that scroll would have a pre-built name and appearance change as well.

I would much rather loot drops end up being scrolls for items with charges and bonus values that get used by crafters, than simply kill monster, get stuff.  

That model has been done to death already.

I fully agree that a scroll would be better to fully integrate with the crafting loops that already exist. However, I also think a loop for adventurers to be rewarded outside of the heavy gather-craft loop would add to the balance of playstyles by giving another avenue of reward. Additionally, one magical or rare item in the world is less impactful than a never ending factory line of that same item, so I think both directions have their pros and cons.

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18 hours ago, Lightsig said:

I fully agree that a scroll would be better to fully integrate with the crafting loops that already exist. However, I also think a loop for adventurers to be rewarded outside of the heavy gather-craft loop would add to the balance of playstyles by giving another avenue of reward. Additionally, one magical or rare item in the world is less impactful than a never ending factory line of that same item, so I think both directions have their pros and cons.

Assuming they plan to follow the SWG model for loot drops and blueprints:

The toughest mobs dropped stacks of items that could act as components of finished goods and give the finished item superior quality. e.g. dragon scales from an elder dragon would be superior to crafted scales, but you would still need a skilled craftsmen to get the most out of it. I think it was the Acklay in SWG... We had that thing on farm because it dropped the best sword cores available.

To prevent a never ending factory line of carbon copy items, blueprints had a run count and could only produce [x] number of items. All items produced from a blue print or from a loot drop had the same serial number. Setting up a factory run of finished goods required using components from the same lot of components as the original blueprint. I don't recall the numbers, but something like 10 weapons from one factory run seems like it was a big run.

Take these 2 together, if our elder dragon drops enough scale to make 5 suits of armor, the adventurers take that loot to the best armorer they know. They either sell it to him outright, or hire him to craft it into armor for them. The armorer selects materials from his stock to add to the loot items and then makes an experimentation run. If the experimentation was a great success, he makes a blueprint that can make 4 suits from the remaining materials. If not, he'll craft a suit of good but not great armor, and have another shot at making a 3 run blueprint. Process repeats until the loot is spent.

Producing ok gear is a trivial thing for a craftsmen with access to a resource vendor to do alone. Producing the best gear takes harvesters able to get epic or even legendary quality raw materials in quantity, craftsmen of multiple trades skilled and geared for the best possible experimentation, as well as the greatest loot drops from adventurers able to take down the most difficult mobs. Put that gear into the hands of your best PvPers, and you can win the campaign and earn the spoils of war.

Edited by VaMei

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Yes! I totally remember this serial system when I was farming for colored cubes in the geno labs (Also, Krayt tissue... What a pain for T21s).

Would be very cool to see such a limitation imposed on special items in Crowfall as well.

Edited by Lightsig

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2 hours ago, Lightsig said:

Yes! I totally remember this serial system when I was farming for colored cubes in the geno labs (Also, Krayt tissue... What a pain for T21s).

Would be very cool to see such a limitation imposed on special items in Crowfall as well.

 

 

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Topic about factory limitations start at 12:30

The restriction is provided by an equally limited factory production of its sub components. Which gets a similar result, more or less, since looted components are only differentiated by quality and not by an additional system like the serials in SWG. Therefore there is no limitation from the perspective of optional additives. If you're short on what you need, you can just go out and gather more until you have the additives you need.

Edited by Lightsig

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