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ACE_Jackal

New and Improved Lobby - Official Discussion Thread

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6 hours ago, Kraahk said:

~singsay~Who didn't trade-in their backer rewards extra-character slots for shabby shop credits, raise your hahaaand. ~singsay~

~raisinghand~

;D

* raises hand     >>>>>> This guy right here<<<<<<

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43 minutes ago, TopsyCretts said:

Soooo necromancy is dead???

Not at all. I think the 3 character thing is a mistake and it's supposed to be 6. Assuming that's true, then every account can use up to 6 custom vessels at a time. Multiply that by the number of accounts, and that's quite a lot, especially when you consider that many people have multiple accounts, and that people can buy additional character slots.

Players aren't going to get just one vessel for a given race/class and that will be the end of it. People will replace existing vessels with better ones, or with ones that more accurately cater to their specific needs as they change over the course of the game.

The game will continue to add new players for as long as it lasts, and those new players will want custom vessels. Vessels take quite a bit of effort to make and each one must be made by hand, so there may not be as many people doing necromancy as compared to blacksmithing or runemaking, thus reducing the overall supply.

If we ever get to a point where the supply outpaces the demand, they can add other things to make necromancy more useful, but that's a point way down the road. We haven't seen pets in-game yet. It's likely that there will be some mechanism for capturing/taming wild animals, but they could, if necessary, also have pets that are crafted via necromancy. Those pets, unlike vessels, could be made to decay and break. If necessary, they could add decay to vessels without breakage, and give necromancers the ability to craft repair kits. Vessel decay could work akin to hunger, where the further it decays, the more penalties you incur. 

So, necromancy is fine, and if the lack of decay/breakage turns out to be an issue, there are ways to deal with it.

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3 minutes ago, Arkade said:

Not at all. I think the 3 character thing is a mistake and it's supposed to be 6. Assuming that's true, then every account can use up to 6 custom vessels at a time. Multiply that by the number of accounts, and that's quite a lot, especially when you consider that many people have multiple accounts, and that people can buy additional character slots.

Players aren't going to get just one vessel for a given race/class and that will be the end of it. People will replace existing vessels with better ones, or with ones that more accurately cater to their specific needs as they change over the course of the game.

The game will continue to add new players for as long as it lasts, and those new players will want custom vessels. Vessels take quite a bit of effort to make and each one must be made by hand, so there may not be as many people doing necromancy as compared to blacksmithing or runemaking, thus reducing the overall supply.

If we ever get to a point where the supply outpaces the demand, they can add other things to make necromancy more useful, but that's a point way down the road. We haven't seen pets in-game yet. It's likely that there will be some mechanism for capturing/taming wild animals, but they could, if necessary, also have pets that are crafted via necromancy. Those pets, unlike vessels, could be made to decay and break. If necessary, they could add decay to vessels without breakage, and give necromancers the ability to craft repair kits. Vessel decay could work akin to hunger, where the further it decays, the more penalties you incur. 

So, necromancy is fine, and if the lack of decay/breakage turns out to be an issue, there are ways to deal with it.

Fair enough lol thanks for that, I really want to focus in necromancy. 

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1 hour ago, TopsyCretts said:

Fair enough lol thanks for that, I really want to focus in necromancy. 

You will most likely have a large market.  A failed vessel with only moderate stats are selling for 50k. I can't imagine the price, if you could ever find one, of a vessel that had great rolls.

Vessels are the one and only piece of equipment that doesn't decay, so they are going to be worth exponentially more just because of that.  Hell, every small group/guild that doesn't have a dedicated necromancer is going to be hunting for decent ones.  Even the big guilds would probably scoop up a good vessel. Might even corner the market on them.

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2 hours ago, TopsyCretts said:

Soooo necromancy is dead???

Necromancy is quite dead since the vessels don't have durability and they can't be lost. Everything is been said about people wanting a better vessel to upgrade and stuff like that can be said about all the gear, but the gear will break and it'll need to be replaced even if players don't want. Vessels replace rate will be insignificant compared to armor and weapons so the market for necromancers will be small.

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2 minutes ago, Extintor said:

Necromancy is quite dead since the vessels don't have durability and they can't be lost. Everything is been said about people wanting a better vessel to upgrade and stuff like that can be said about all the gear, but the gear will break and it'll need to be replaced even if players don't want. Vessels replace rate will be insignificant compared to armor and weapons so the market for necromancers will be small.

Not quite correct.  The only way to access an upgraded vessel, is to either use a limited slot space, or destroy to essentially 0 durability an existing vessel you own. 

Everyone will always be looking for the best library of vessels possible within their price range.

Worst case, there is a glut on the market of failed vessel crafting rolls for new players to pick up on the cheap or experiment with.  

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Not quite correct.  The only way to access an upgraded vessel, is to either use a limited slot space, or destroy to essentially 0 durability an existing vessel you own. 

That's my point, people won't change vessels that often.

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1 minute ago, Extintor said:

That's my point, people won't change vessels that often.

I don't think you understand the mindset of an achiever or someone who builds/tries character meta builds. For some players, that experimentation is one of the critical things they play with.

They will also need specific vessels for each profession, and because of the difficulty of getting single vessel, single use disciplines in the future, even a combat, one class, one race player will want to have different discipline versions of similar quality vessels. 

Want to try a AT cleric instead of SP, going to want another vessel.  Want to keep a siege discipline vessel vs an open field combat vessel, there is another one.

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Just now, Extintor said:

That's my point, people won't change vessels that often.

They absolutely will. People are going to have different vessels for different things. The first vessels people will get will be uncommon quality. They will absolutely upgrade that vessel as better ones become available, whether that means a higher quality (rare, epic, legendary) or just better stats. And that's not even counting changes to builds that may focus the stats differently. As a knight, I might want more strength than dex, and then later change my mind and decide I want more dex than strength.

If necromancy is limited by lack of decay/breakage, we won't see it become an issue for quite some time, as everyone will need vessels at the beginning. It will take a lot of time for the game to mature to the point where people the majority of the people have close to the best vessels possible. If it ends up becoming a problem, there are some easy fixes, as I outlined about. This isn't something that needs to be addressed now.

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As I said all those arguments work the same way for armor and weapons. But players will lose armor and weapons even if they don't want to. Vessels won't be replaced unless players want to replace them. Forced replacing - voluntary replacement. If you don't see any difference there's nothing I can do about it. :)

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1 minute ago, Extintor said:

As I said all those arguments work the same way for armor and weapons. But players will lose armor and weapons even if they don't want to. Vessels won't be replaced unless players want to replace them. Forced replacing - voluntary replacement. If you don't see any difference there's nothing I can do about it. :)

Do you agree or disagree that if it becomes a problem, it will take a considerable amount of time to get there?

Do you agree or disagree that there are easy ways to mitigate the issue, if it occurs, without resorting to vessels breaking?

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10 minutes ago, Extintor said:

As I said all those arguments work the same way for armor and weapons. But players will lose armor and weapons even if they don't want to. Vessels won't be replaced unless players want to replace them. Forced replacing - voluntary replacement. If you don't see any difference there's nothing I can do about it. :)

If you claimed they were “different” nobody would disagree with you. It’s the claim that necromancy is “dead” that people are debating.

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So, let's say the campaign ends, and I've gotten my character to lvl 30, and some decent gear.
Will I be able to bring both levels/gear with me into the next campaign, where some people might join for the first time, with a fresh character?

That would be demoralizing for the new people ..

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1 hour ago, Arkade said:

[...] amount [...] to get there?

 

Since you mentioned that ... I did remember something.

--> " "Purchases" is the tab you use to import your store items into the game — this includes popular items such as buildings, housing parcels, and mounts. "

Does that mean there will be mounts in 5.8 or, like Arkade phrased it lyrically and much better, a mount to get there? :)

 

Edited by Kraahk

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46 minutes ago, Yumx said:

So, let's say the campaign ends, and I've gotten my character to lvl 30, and some decent gear.
Will I be able to bring both levels/gear with me into the next campaign, where some people might join for the first time, with a fresh character?

That would be demoralizing for the new people ..

Depends on the campaign.

There will probably be short (1 month or less) "starter" campaigns, or the bands will cover this in that access to a band that only has gear up to blue for example, will not allow anything blue or better in.  Also filters for vessel level.  They can go the other way, and say you need an X level/quality vessel to even enter some campaigns.  

Also, group twinking will be a thing. So sure you're level 1 with a shiny basic weapon.  Call out in chat to your faction, and odds are someone will have some cast off gear close to breaking that will get you into range.  It's in everyone's best interest that every player possible be contributing to the win.  I've handed off quite a few sets of gear to new playing guild members.

It's going to take a bit to break people of the mental bondage that MMO leveling has become, where you NEED to be matching levels and gear or your just wasting space in a group. That is not how armies work, and every gun helps.  

If you dump into a higher band campaign on day one and feel overwhelmed,  after being properly guided by the introduction scripts that should steer you to less intense worlds (still to be built), well you sorta get what you deserve.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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3 hours ago, Arkade said:

Do you agree or disagree that if it becomes a problem, it will take a considerable amount of time to get there?

Do you agree or disagree that there are easy ways to mitigate the issue, if it occurs, without resorting to vessels breaking?

Yes, it can take some time to get there, I don't know how much time, but I plan to play Crowfall for years and this is an imbalance between faucets and sinks you can see coming. I just say this can be solved the same way it's solved for all the other professions. But this is just my opinion. :)

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2 hours ago, Jah said:

If you claimed they were “different” nobody would disagree with you. It’s the claim that necromancy is “dead” that people are debating.

I didn't said completely dead, I said "quite" dead. :)

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12 minutes ago, Extintor said:

Yes, it can take some time to get there, I don't know how much time, but I plan to play Crowfall for years and this is an imbalance between faucets and sinks you can see coming. I just say this can be solved the same way it's solved for all the other professions. But this is just my opinion. :)

That would solve it.

People who want to be attached to a "character" wouldn't play the game, so assuming the game lasted long enough, it would certainly take longer to fill up.

ACE has pretty much removed all other material permanent gains directly related to conquest play (EK leggo notwithstanding) from players, except this one. I don't count passive training as material. If your so worried about it, pick a different profession.

I would rather ACE lose a couple of overly anxious want to be necromancers, than an entire class of player type that enjoys becoming attached to characters.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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